Promotion for Sisko
- Thread starter Photon
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He was "stuck behind a desk" during most of the show, so I don't think he would mind. Besides, it's a cliche to label an Admiral's job as simply being "stuck behind a desk".
While Sisko was stuck behind a desk he planned and initiated several key parts of the Dominion War. And being an Admiral wouldn't chain him to that desk either, so he would still be able to take the Defiant out whenever he pleased. He could've made DS9 his base of operations and not much at all would have changed for him, except he would have had more authority in the operations of Starfleet.
While Sisko was stuck behind a desk he planned and initiated several key parts of the Dominion War. And being an Admiral wouldn't chain him to that desk either, so he would still be able to take the Defiant out whenever he pleased. He could've made DS9 his base of operations and not much at all would have changed for him, except he would have had more authority in the operations of Starfleet.
I think Behr and co. wanted to make him an admiral during some point during the Dominion War, but were told by the higher-ups (Berman? Piller?) that it would make DS9 too different from the other franchises—citation definitely needed.
Although I could see how this would be true—captain, captain, ADMIRAL, captain—on the other hand we saw countless admirals in charge of random starbases, and given DS9’s strategic importance there would be a good in-universe justification for this.
They could have also brought out the old “commodore” rank for Sisko as well—in the Phase II book includes a fact-check for the original pilot (which would later become TMP), and they point out Kirk going from admiral to captain makes no sense. The fact-checking agency suggested making Kirk a commodore—that way he’d still be a flag officer, but Decker established a precedent of commodores commanding starships.
(The downside to this is that “commodore” can sound a bit ridiculous, and I always think of the British comedy Keeping Up Appearances this when I hear it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcb1ffAo_cw&feature=related).
Although I could see how this would be true—captain, captain, ADMIRAL, captain—on the other hand we saw countless admirals in charge of random starbases, and given DS9’s strategic importance there would be a good in-universe justification for this.
They could have also brought out the old “commodore” rank for Sisko as well—in the Phase II book includes a fact-check for the original pilot (which would later become TMP), and they point out Kirk going from admiral to captain makes no sense. The fact-checking agency suggested making Kirk a commodore—that way he’d still be a flag officer, but Decker established a precedent of commodores commanding starships.
(The downside to this is that “commodore” can sound a bit ridiculous, and I always think of the British comedy Keeping Up Appearances this when I hear it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcb1ffAo_cw&feature=related).
^ That's a pretty dumb excuse to not promote Sisko, seeing as how TOS had an ADMIRAL Kirk in charge of the Enterprise from TMP to TVH.
^Agreed, but those were the movies, and a big part of Kirk’s arc was him coping with not being a captain anymore. I don’t remember how they explained away Kirk’s rank in TMP, but he was wearing captain’s stripes after getting back on the Enterprise and out of the admiral’s uniform, just pushing aside the logical consequences and making him a captain again.
In TWOK they used his rank as an asset, making the implications of accepting the promotion a key plot point and having Kirk recapture some of the old feelings of the captaincy—“I feel young”—one of the main plot points. TWOK took an enormous risk with Star Trek, showing its heroes aging (in the DVD special features the producers talked about how Shatner wanted to do the part underneath several layers of protective makeup) and putting them in a life-and-death situation.
’90s Trek, on the other hand (TNG and Voyager could drift into blandness, and the TNG movies certainly did not take characters the TOS ones), was more risk averse. Although I don’t see how promoting Sisko would have changed much in terms of story—after all, he was already commanding fleets and the like—I’m not surprised that having a flag officer in the opening credits was nixed. Although substantively DS9 was already pretty distinctive in substance, having the lead an admiral was seen as taking things a little too far. Ira Behr, courtesy of Memory Alpha, felt that:
In TWOK they used his rank as an asset, making the implications of accepting the promotion a key plot point and having Kirk recapture some of the old feelings of the captaincy—“I feel young”—one of the main plot points. TWOK took an enormous risk with Star Trek, showing its heroes aging (in the DVD special features the producers talked about how Shatner wanted to do the part underneath several layers of protective makeup) and putting them in a life-and-death situation.
’90s Trek, on the other hand (TNG and Voyager could drift into blandness, and the TNG movies certainly did not take characters the TOS ones), was more risk averse. Although I don’t see how promoting Sisko would have changed much in terms of story—after all, he was already commanding fleets and the like—I’m not surprised that having a flag officer in the opening credits was nixed. Although substantively DS9 was already pretty distinctive in substance, having the lead an admiral was seen as taking things a little too far. Ira Behr, courtesy of Memory Alpha, felt that:
In the history of pointless Photon threads, this one has got to take the cake.
Good job!
I love DS9, but Jesus! Talk about not respecting your audience!
Yeah, the lead character absolutely MUST be a captain. Us simple-minded fools watching the show could never accept an admiral as the main star.
What were they thinking?!
And "admiral" doesn't? Who's he admiring? That lieu-tenant there, perhaps? Is this the same loo where the rear admiral empties his colonel? And must he ensign when he leaves? That's a major, general problem with military ranks, really. (Ranks, really.)
Timo Saloniemi
I couldn't see Sisko wanting to be promoted to Admiral.
OK, there is the prestige in making the big decisions, but Admirals generally don't implement the big decisions. Admirals in navies typically plan military strategy and liaise with government ministers and civil servants who in turn give orders to the admirals. I can't see Ben sitting behind a desk, getting orders from the Federation President and then telling some Starfleet Captain to do x, y, z.
This is the man who discovered the wormhole, made first contact with the Prophets, discovered the Dominion and essentially ran the Federation Dominion War effort. I wouldn't blame him for not wanting a desk job after all of that.
OK, there is the prestige in making the big decisions, but Admirals generally don't implement the big decisions. Admirals in navies typically plan military strategy and liaise with government ministers and civil servants who in turn give orders to the admirals. I can't see Ben sitting behind a desk, getting orders from the Federation President and then telling some Starfleet Captain to do x, y, z.
This is the man who discovered the wormhole, made first contact with the Prophets, discovered the Dominion and essentially ran the Federation Dominion War effort. I wouldn't blame him for not wanting a desk job after all of that.
Eh, I can't say I think this is a big issue one way or the other. Sure, make him an admiral, why not? But, on the other hand, what does that really add from a storytelling point of view? Nothing much as far as I can tell.
Sisko was still going to be commanding the station and the Defiant, as well as coordinating the war effort in any event, so if it had been done, it would have been for the novelty factor more than anything, with no practical impact on the ongoing storylines that I can see.
Kira was promoted from Major to Colonel. Fine, ok, no problem, but at the end of the day, so what? In Kira's case one could argue that Major was a bit of a low rank considering Kira's prominence by the time the later seasons roll around, so it made sense. Nonetheless it changed very little. In Sisko's case, he already has the only rank that really matters in Trek, so there was no reason to mess with it.
Sisko was still going to be commanding the station and the Defiant, as well as coordinating the war effort in any event, so if it had been done, it would have been for the novelty factor more than anything, with no practical impact on the ongoing storylines that I can see.
Kira was promoted from Major to Colonel. Fine, ok, no problem, but at the end of the day, so what? In Kira's case one could argue that Major was a bit of a low rank considering Kira's prominence by the time the later seasons roll around, so it made sense. Nonetheless it changed very little. In Sisko's case, he already has the only rank that really matters in Trek, so there was no reason to mess with it.
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Rear Admiral, and commandant of Starfleet Academy. Would make it easier for him to have dinner with Joe Sisko in Nawlins.
What was the point of promoting him to Captain then? He commanded the station and the Defiant as a Commander. He could have easily been Ross' right hand man as a Commander.
Concerning Sisko's prominence by the time of the later season, i.e. running the war effort, doesn't it makes the same sense to promote him the way they promoted Kira.
Umm, Dax dragged the depressed Sisko to the scientific discovery of the wormhole. The Prophets made contact and dug Sisko out of his shell. Sisko never really explored the Gamma Quadrant unless something other than his inner drive or Starfleet orders forced him to. And the only part of the Dominion War we know Sisko helped run, beyond helping get his office back, was the failed attack that led to the Chin'toka quagmire.
Sisko may have been a formidable warrior and adventurer in private life or something, but by his Starfleet career he was still a bureaucrat managing a static space station. I can't see him dissatisfied with his desk job at any point. As a family man, he probably really appreciated that job, and would rather have given up the Defiant and all the distractions that took him away from the station.
Timo Saloniemi
Given what he was doing during the Dominion War, the nice little promotion to Fleet Captain would have been a great slap on the back for Ben. Most of the time he still would have been referred to simply as Captain (unless he was making reservations), and the title would have been in keeping with a Captain who was in fact commanding a fleet in battle.
As far as promoting Sisko to the rank of Admiral, as soon as the war was over TPTB were going to effectively kill off both Sisko and the DS9 series, so where would the "chain to a desk" have come into play?
As far as promoting Sisko to the rank of Admiral, as soon as the war was over TPTB were going to effectively kill off both Sisko and the DS9 series, so where would the "chain to a desk" have come into play?
Sisko got Dax's help to discover it yes, but Sisko was prompted to do so when given the Orb and when told by Opaka to find the Celestial Temple. And he made first contact with the Prophets, hence him being called Emissary of the Prophets. Even though Dax went in through the wormhole with him, she was sent back to DS9. The Prophets only cared about contacting Ben.
And OK, Sisko did not chart the Gamma Quadrant as such. But he was the first Starfleet officer to make light of the Dominion threat, and was in charge of the mission that successfully sought out the Founders.
I guess my point is how many Starfleet officers ever make such big discoveries? If anything, the Captains portrayed in all five series are the true Starfleet pioneers, and have essentially been at the heart of all major Federation history. Kirk helped make peace with the Klingons, Picard made first contact with the Borg, Sisko made first contact with the Dominion, Janeway was the first ever to transverse the Delta Quadrant, and Archer was a key player in the forming of the Federation.
So, really, I could not blame Ben for not taking up an Admiral position. Being a Captain is where the true action is.
od0 ital.......
Shaka, when the walls fell
In the history of pointless Photon threads, this one has got to take the cake.
Good job!
Shaka, when the walls fell
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