Universal Translator

[Rek]

Just another question from a noob here.

I've always wondered, if the Universal Translator translates everything everyone around says into what everyone else can understand, why can we/other people hear Klingon words still? Shouldn't the Klingon words be translated so that they just say the meaning of that word to the other person?

I suppose you could say some Klingon words can't be translated but then again you get some episodes were someone talks in Klingon then translates its meaning to someone who doesn't understand it. So...that confuses me further about the whole Universal Translator.

So for those who may understand how this works or could work, want to try to explain to me? Or is this just another one of those Star Trek flaws that are just there and ment to be ignored?

 

[DevilEyes]

This has been asked before, and my answer is: though this was obviously done only so that we could hear some Klingon words because it's supposed to be cool, in-universe it makes perfect sense that the Universal Translator is not perfect, and that some words would just not be in its dictionary, or that it couldn't find a one-on-one translation for a certain word. For instance, just like Eskimos have far more words for snow than most other peoples, I'm sure that Vulcans would lack many words for emotional states, the Ferengi would have far more words for economic, financial and accounting terms, while the Klingons would have an especially high number of battle-related terms. In fact, as I've said before, however you fanwank the technology of the UT, it is working way too well, considering the differences between the languages we know, let alone the probable differences between languages and modes of expression between very different aliens.

 

[T'Girl]

HOSHI: What do you know about these Klingons?

ARCHER: Not much. An empire of warriors with eighty poly-guttural dialects constructed on an adaptive syntax.

HOSHI: Turn it up.

 

[scotpens]

. . . For instance, just like Eskimos have far more words for snow than most other peoples . . .

That's actually a myth.

Eskimo Words for Snow

 

[Ensign Johnson]

I've wondered about this too. Like how can Sisko recite a blessing in Bajoran? He was even told his accent had improved. It would be very difficult to learn alien languages yourself if your translator kept turning them into English. Also would it make everyone look like they were in a badly dubbed film?

 

[TerokNor]

I wonder if a child would get a translator from the very beginning... and if so, would all children only be monolingual and miss most from thre sounds of other languages, because no matter what other language the other spoke, they would hear it in their native one? Or would they have the translator only activated now and then? And when a child would grow up, say not on a spaceship or such, but on the native planet with only or mostly his race, would it have a translator at all? Does all the (also adult) population has a translator or only some, who may need it?

TerokNor

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

In my own stories...children are actually NOT allowed to have a translator full-time until they are 18, in order to ensure proper acquisition of their native language.

For adults, it is my theory that once they start to learn a language, even when the translator is switched back on, they begin to hear "past" it to the native language. The translator starts to not activate on things that you hear and understand on your own--more so as you begin to think and speak in the other language. The more they learn, the more this happens to the point where the translator stops activating at all on that language unless specially requested. This is something that is happening to one of my characters in The Thirteenth Order, as he begins not just to understand the Cardassian language, but to speak it for himself.

 

[Michael]

Or is this just another one of those Star Trek flaws that are just there and ment to be ignored?

Exactly.

 

[Chrisisall]

eighty poly-guttural dialects constructed on an adaptive syntax.

Then how did Andrew on Buffy The Vampire Slayer learn it so easily????

 

[DevilEyes]

. . . For instance, just like Eskimos have far more words for snow than most other peoples . . .

That's actually a myth.

Eskimo Words for Snow

Well, funny how that myth found a place in the General Linguistics book I had to study from at the university. But I'm sure that website knows better.

 

[T'Girl]

how can Sisko recite a blessing in Bajoran? He was even told his accent had improved.

It is possible that Sisko just memorized the blessing phonetically and with his translator off (so as not to confuse himself) he had no true knowledge what he was saying.

it is my theory that once they start to learn a language, even when the translator is switched back on, they begin to hear "past" it to the native language.

It would depend on how the device actual work, how it works inside your mind. If I were standing in front of you right now speaking in spanish, would you simply hear in your head the words in english, or would you hear spanish and the UT somehow provide you with understanding? If all there was was a english substitution and we were discussing dancing and I was to use the term "tumbao," I would then have to pause and wait, because the translator will need about one minute to translate the word properly into english, there being no single english word for the term.

I believe that when Worf is speaking, the majority of the time he is speaking english (or whatever the Federation's/Starfleet's language is), however sometimes he lapses into Klingon because there is no english word that conveys his meaning. The translators of the people he's conversing with do not translate the single term because there may be a multiple meanings, they might hear, perhaps, a musical tone to alert them that a word was not translated.

I believe on the other hand, that when Kira speaks she is speaking Bajorian and Sisko (for instance) understands her in english. The actress is obviously speaking english and therefor has the appropriate lip movements, but "in-universe" Kira's lip movements would not correspond to what Sisko is "hearing."

 

[grabthars hammer]

Bear in mind that as viewers, we're not only watching the dialogue through universal translators, but through script intent-ators too

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think the UT may alter the signal to the auditory nerves, personally. I don't think it would completely eliminate the sound of the native language, but it would cut the volume sufficiently that you could hear the translation well. As you learned, though, I think it would back off.

 

[Timo]

Two interpretations for why certain words spoken by the Klingons come out in Klingonese rather than English:

1) They are insults and vile curses, so the UT does some censorship. This is true of about 90% of the cases, really - and the rest might be the UT erring on the side of caution...

2) They are the UT's way of telling the listener that the Klingon just inserted a word in a foreign language. That is, amidst all the Klingonese he was speaking, he inserted an English insult so that even his moronic foreign opponent would get it and feel properly insulted; the UT indicated that by mirroring, by changing the English word to Klingonese (and incidentally also performing its #1 function of protecting the listener's ears).

Well, funny how that myth found a place in the General Linguistics book I had to study from at the university. But I'm sure that website knows better.

I don't know if we have any genuine Eskimos around there, but I guess I'm the second best choice... Thanks to the fact that our Finnish words are compound words more or less in the same style as the Inuit language ones, Finnish has at least as many "words" for snow as those Inuit languages do - in fact, there are infinitely many words for snow. Similarly, we have infinitely many words for sunshine, or sand, or the smell of coffee: "slightly greenish hue of noon sun" is a single word if we want it to be.

I guess one should regard university education with a certain degree of healthy disd... umm, caution.

As you learned, though, I think it would back off.

I guess this would be the most important thing about the UT: it helps your brain in fooling itself - but the brain is extremely competent at that to begin with. The UT provides translation cues, and the brain quickly learns to do the rest: it starts to see lip movements that match the translation, it starts ignoring all contrary evidence, it accepts the halting and incomplete UT translation as fluent speech.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[scotpens]

. . . For instance, just like Eskimos have far more words for snow than most other peoples . . .

That's actually a myth.

Eskimo Words for Snow

Well, funny how that myth found a place in the General Linguistics book I had to study from at the university. But I'm sure that website knows better.

Google “Eskimo snow myth” and you'll find dozens of authoritative sources on that subject.

I think the UT may alter the signal to the auditory nerves, personally. I don't think it would completely eliminate the sound of the native language, but it would cut the volume sufficiently that you could hear the translation well.

Kind of like those Russian and Polish-language versions of movies where the dialogue isn't dubbed, they just have a translator talking over the actors.

 

[Timo]

The brain learns to deaden that agony pretty quickly, I've learned. That is, it learns to filter out the translator's voice. I don't know if it works the other way around, as I don't understand Polish...

Taking this to a whole different level are some Spanish radio commentators who help the audience understand the English lyrics of the season's new songs by singing over them in Spanish! Does that phenomenon exist elsewhere? I couldn't imagine a German DJ doing that in any circumstances...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[neozeks]

It would depend on how the device actual work, how it works inside your mind. If I were standing in front of you right now speaking in spanish, would you simply hear in your head the words in english, or would you hear spanish and the UT somehow provide you with understanding?

I think it's the second case. We've occasionally seen our heroes, that do have UTs, talk to aliens who don't have Uts (like in prewarp societies) and the aliens could understand them just fine, meaning they were talking the aliens' language. So it's not really a one-way 'translator', it's a two-way thing. Sort of like an expansion of your brain's language centers, giving you instant knowledge of alien languages. So no problems with out-of-sync lips

Though it brings up a question - when say, Kira talks to Sisko, if both of them can (thanks to the UT) both speak and understand each others languages, are they both talking in English or both in Bajoran or each in his/her own? Probably depends on the situation. Since I suppose native and naturally learned languages are more 'deeply' ingrained than the ones the UT provides, ordinarily everyone talks in their own language. But if the situation warrants it you switch into the other language. Say if Sisko was talking to a group of Bajorans without UTs he'd be speaking Bajoran.

How does this affect the 'you're accent has improved' and 'I have to brush up on my Bajoran'? Well, since most of the time such lines were spoken in regards to ceremonies and rituals perhaps it was some sort of ritual, ancient Bajoran used only on special occasions and thus not covered by the UT. Or the UT gives you just a sort of artificial crude knowledge and you still have to work to perfect things like accents.

As for why Klingon is sometimes translated and sometimes not, aside from the mentioned explanations it may also be the UT simply needs some time to switch to the appropriate language, especially if the language isn't 'used' very often by the UT-wearer and the person that's speaking changes the language suddenly.

 

[TerokNor]

Hmm, but for the Breen for example Damar had to have his UT adjusted...he could not understand them the first time they met. So the UT must seemingly be programmed to translate new languages... and is not just working in a blink of an eye when hearing a new language. So when we see people speak to other people, that cannot have an UT yet, the space-aliens must beforehand actually studied the language, feed it to the UT before being able to understand it... still it would be strange, that the other aliens without UT would understand the aliens from space, unless those space-aliens also learned speaking the language before beaming down.

TerokNor

 

[neozeks]

Hmm, but for the Breen for example Damar had to have his UT adjusted...he could not understand them the first time they met. So the UT must seemingly be programmed to translate new languages... and is not just working in a blink of an eye when hearing a new language. So when we see people speak to other people, that cannot have an UT yet, the space-aliens must beforehand actually studied the language, feed it to the UT before being able to understand it... still it would be strange, that the other aliens without UT would understand the aliens from space, unless those space-aliens also learned speaking the language before beaming down.

TerokNor

Well, we have mostly seen the UT work pretty much from the start even with new species. I assume it scans (or receives the scans from station/ship sensors/tricorders) the aliens' brain patterns/memory engrams/whatevers relating to language and runs them through some superfast processing. If it's just ship-to-ship communication maybe there is some kind of interstellar convention to broadcast this information to the other side upon first contact. Once gathered this language information is stored and spread to other UTs. Of course, there are times when the brain patterns or the language structure is sufficiently different that it takes the UT some time to process it, like with the Skreeans.

As for Damar and the Breen, since the Cardies and the Breen did have prior contact I assume Damar's UT simply didn't have the Breen language file uploaded and given the weirdness of Breen physiology couldn't just make it from scratch quickly enough either.

 

[Timo]

Usually when our heroes run into some completely alien species, the encounter takes place across a comm channel between two starships. It's not all that implausible to think that two clever computers, both intent on creating a shared means of communication, would be successful significantly faster than just one computer working with/against a live alien.

OTOH, when the heroes encounter aliens in other circumstances, we generally have reason to assume that those aliens have advance intel on the Federation. There really are very few situations where a pocket translator would have to work out a language from a standing start - and indeed we see failures on occasion, such as in ENT.

A species that does not want to be understood would be a difficult nut to crack, even if it takes no exceptional precautions or cryptographical measures. It's no wonder our ENT heroes had little success with the vampires of "Fight or Flight" or the Romulans of "Minefield" at first.

Timo Saloniemi