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Redesign RANT!!!! (Plus, an op to post my model pic again)

Chrisisall

Chrisisall

Commodore
Commodore
WhyTF redesign perfection????

newmodel345003.jpg


They effed with the Corvette, the Mustang & the Charger, but, okay though, they're just cars (now ugly ones:shifty:).

But WHY redesign Enterprise??

TMP-E had some really good aspects to it. So does the so-called JJ "FuglyPrise" IMO. But a COMPLETE redesign???

Look at the redesign of Serenity from TV to movie- slight variations, sleeker lines, but not DIFFERENT ones.

Or the Viper from original BSG to the Moore one. Again, same lines, minor but cool changes (except that they frakkin' stopped USING them in the stupid new show!!!!).

Those two examples aside, I have to give a great big fat D- to the fools that graduated design school that think iconic images can be made "better!!!!"

Hey, let's redesign the Millenium Falcon... or the X-Wing!

Or the Jupiter 2!!
Oh, yeah, they already screwed that one to the wall, eh?:guffaw:

I'm all out of bubblegum here, my friends!

Thoughts?
 
I hear you and agree to an extent. You brought up some valid points and some things just shouldn't be messed with, at all. I'm particularly fond of the new Enterprise in many ways. Unfortunately, it was designed for us (the fans). It was designed to look good on the big screen for some casual, if that, fans and others new to the franchise. I just hope, with more sequels, that the ship they made is refined to look more like that magnificent piece of craftsmanship that you've included, above.

Having said that, sometimes redesigns do work. You have to love the new Dodge Challenger. That is one care redesign that worked. I also think the new Camaro is rather sharp. Although I wouldn't call it a total redesign, the TMP era Enterprise was absolutely beautiful (I just got the new Polar Lights 1/1000 scale kit and it's magnificent) and is still my favorite of all the ships, with that name.
 
I've often said that the original E and the TMP refit remind me of the sexy librarian--the TOS version is her with the glasses on the hair up and the refit is her with her hair down and glasses off. Thing is, I always thought the sexy librarian was sexier with the glasses on and the hair up.
 
caisson2delta said:
the TMP era Enterprise was absolutely beautiful (I just got the new Polar Lights 1/1000 scale kit and it's magnificent) and is still my favorite of all the ships, with that name.
Click to expand...
It finally came out!:techman: Is it nicer than this one?
birthday10abc.jpg

My Art Asylum Wrath of Khan E, with many custom paint corrections.
Do you have a picture of your Polar Lights E?:drool:
 
I prefer the TMP E over the TOS E. It has the same elegance AND more detail that makes it feel more real.

TOS E looks bulky, like it was made from wood using primitive modelling techniques that prevented them from doing smooth transitions between the individual parts or from adding fine detail to give a sense of scale. Why they needed to make the modell 11 feet long is beyond me, since it looks like a toy in all of the VFX shots anyways.

The Abramsprise... oh lord. It does have lots of details that look awesome. But the entire design is fucked up. It looks like an ugly duck, when the TOS and TMP E are elegant swans. The saucer doesn't fit to the secondary hull, the secondary hull doesn't fit to the warp nacelles, the warp nacelles don't fit to the saucer. It's horrible. Like many different people designed each part and another guy slapped everything together.
 
JarodRussell said:
I prefer the TMP E over the TOS E. It has the same elegance AND more detail that makes it feel more real.

TOS E looks bulky, like it was made from wood using primitive modelling techniques that prevented them from doing smooth transitions between the individual parts or from adding fine detail to give a sense of scale. Why they needed to make the modell 11 feet long is beyond me, since it looks like a toy in all of the VFX shots anyways.
Click to expand...
It is funny... people complain that there wasn't fine details on a model which went for almost 35 years without a reasonably accurate replica or set of plans. How can you say there weren't fine details when today people are still struggling with the fine details?

And of course there were tons of fine details which the camera never picked up on, so even if people hadn't been handicapped by having to watch Star Trek on TV, they still most likely wouldn't have seen everything... specially without the ability to pause the episodes.

As for why the model needed to be 11 feet long... back then all models had to be large to get a sense of perspective using the cameras of that era. This included movies like 2001. It was only as cameras got better that models could get smaller while still appearing large. Today the original 33 inch model would be fine for getting most of the shots of the 11 foot model seen in TOS, but looking at the footage of the 33 inch model taken in 1964 (while the 11 foot model was under construction) shows why the larger model was needed.

But it was the improvements in the cameras that let the refit model be 8 feet long. And it wasn't details that made the refit seem more real, it was a vastly expanded budget and time for effects that a TV show couldn't have during TOS. The effects for TOS were done by a number of effect shops (which is why the quality varied so much throughout the series) because there was more than could be done by any one. Remember that a single season of TOS produced nearly 12 times as much film in one third the production period that TMP was made in.

The original Enterprise model, with all the details no one knew were there, would have been majestic on the big screen.

And lastly, the design of the original Enterprise was the design. It wasn't redesigned/compromised by the model makers, they built pretty much what was on the plans that they were given, with some additional elements added at Roddenberry's request. And the lack of details was the intention of the designer (Jefferies), who believed it was unrealistic to have too much outside the ship (or for there to even be any windows on it).

Sorry that it looked like a toy to you... fortunately it didn't to some of the rest of us. :techman:
 
The original Enterprise will ALWAYS be my favorite spaceship design. It was so far ahead of it's time. Literally (back then you had two basic spaceships... Buck Rogers' Rockets and flying saucers. Enterprise was the most beautiful spaceship I'd ever seen. Nothing would be able to take that away from my memories). The JJ Enterprise reminds me of the 60's-70's plastic car models that were cartoon-i-sized and usually driven by some sort of bug-eyed cartoon ogre.
 
Shaw said:
And of course there were tons of fine details which the camera never picked up on, so even if people hadn't been handicapped by having to watch Star Trek on TV, they still most likely wouldn't have seen everything...

The original Enterprise model, with all the details no one knew were there, would have been majestic on the big screen.


Sorry that it looked like a toy to you... fortunately it didn't to some of the rest of us. :techman:
Click to expand...
*And Shaw's post was written AFTER he mind-melded with me, clearly*
:guffaw::techman:
 
Chrisisall said:
WhyTF redesign perfection????

newmodel345003.jpg


They effed with the Corvette, the Mustang & the Charger, but, okay though, they're just cars (now ugly ones:shifty:).

But WHY redesign Enterprise??

TMP-E had some really good aspects to it. So does the so-called JJ "FuglyPrise" IMO. But a COMPLETE redesign???

Look at the redesign of Serenity from TV to movie- slight variations, sleeker lines, but not DIFFERENT ones.

Or the Viper from original BSG to the Moore one. Again, same lines, minor but cool changes (except that they frakkin' stopped USING them in the stupid new show!!!!).

Those two examples aside, I have to give a great big fat D- to the fools that graduated design school that think iconic images can be made "better!!!!"

Hey, let's redesign the Millenium Falcon... or the X-Wing!

Or the Jupiter 2!!
Oh, yeah, they already screwed that one to the wall, eh?:guffaw:

I'm all out of bubblegum here, my friends!

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Well technology moves on you know...as credible as the design was in the 60s, its just not for today.

RAMA
 
I liked the interiors for the Jupiter II in the movie better than those of the TV series...the exterior was interesting, but neither the original or the movie version is particularly classic IMAO.

And I'm probably at least as fond of the 1967-68 Mustang as I am of the Enterprise, so "it's just a car" don't cut it. :lol:
 
Dennis said:
Some people like the old version of the ship better. Some people like the new version of the ship better.
Click to expand...
Truth to tell, I like best whatever Enterprise I'm watching at the moment.;)

Except Enterprise-E.
THAT I have to squint at to make it look a little less like the Voyager/Excelsior kitbash that it is.:shifty:

IMO, of course.:techman:
 
RAMA said:
Well technology moves on you know...as credible as the design was in the 60s, its just not for today.

RAMA
Click to expand...
That's subjective opinion. The JJprise is no more credible than anything else. And in many respects I find it less credible with its overdesign, lens flare and brewery interior.

The Matt Jefferies' Enterprise was born of inspiration from a man with some aeronautical knowledge. The TMP refit add an extra layering of detail. And I suspect they will far outlast the JJprise in recognition and collective memory.
 
Warped9 said:
The TMP refit add{ed} an extra layering of detail.
Click to expand...
But took delight in squaring off the nacelles because of new fabrication technology (and, I suspect, design influences from recent films *coughSW*) that ended up effingup the visual *feel* of the power of the matter-anti-matter reaction observable in the bussards!!!

SO, the JJPrise corrected that, whilst making OTHER design faux pas-es.

Guys. Can't we accept excellence without attempting to always improve upon it?:(
 
Shaw said:
As for why the model needed to be 11 feet long... back then all models had to be large to get a sense of perspective using the cameras of that era. This included movies like 2001. It was only as cameras got better that models could get smaller while still appearing large. Today the original 33 inch model would be fine for getting most of the shots of the 11 foot model seen in TOS, but looking at the footage of the 33 inch model taken in 1964 (while the 11 foot model was under construction) shows why the larger model was needed.
Click to expand...
I'm going to have to quibble with that a bit. Even on TMP Trumbull said he'd have preferred a much larger model in order to make the ship look appropriately huge. As good as the refit is, when the camera skates too close to the hull the depth of field fails to hold up the illusion of immensity. That's why most of the "bigiatures" in the Lord of the Rings films were so large. Small models are difficult to make look convincing (tilt-shifting lenses might change that).
 
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