5x07 Amy's Choice (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Guy Gardener]

How do Royalties work in Britain?

The yanks punked us in Star trek a couple times citing that it was cheaper to conterfiet an existing character with a new name than pay for royalties on an existing character with a little history.

Seems ridiculous, no?

The greatest draw back is that 11 is so old now that it's barely worth the effort to steal his reaming lives to extend the Valeyards own life. Attacking six like he did was barely worth getting out of bed in the morning honestly.

O.

The Valeyard half sucking the life out of 4 could justify an appearance by Tom Baker in his current condition for an interesting cross doctor story.

 

[Slugboy]

It was a completely cruel and hurtful thing to say to him, and she knew it. I would expect maybe something like "Oh why couldn't you save him, boo hoo, etc etc". But "What's the point of you?" was way below a low blow. What does she expect him to do, throw himself into a black hole because he can't save the entire universe?

I agree that her line was "way below a low blow," as you say. My interpretation of the situation is that, after all they've gone through, Amy still doesn't see the Doctor as a real being with flaws and feelings. She still views him through the lens of fantasy---the superhero of her childhood fantasies (to quote Prisoner Zero, "Poor Amy Pond...still dreaming of the magic Doctor she's sure will come and save her") and, based on the end of "Flesh and Stone", someone to fulfill her adult fantasies as well, the perfect man that she could escape her life with, the "handsome hero" referred to by the Dream Lord.

The death of her fiancé and the Doctor's inability to save him was such a harsh intrustion of reality, an undeniable reminder that the Doctor is not perfect, and not the stuff of Amy's fantasies, that she lashed out at him, unrestrained by the belief that the Doctor has feelings that could be hurt.

An analogy...imagine you grew up captivated by stories of Superman and how he always saves the day. Finally, one day, it turns out that Superman is real and he comes to visit you! You're obviously thrilled to meet your hero. Not long afterwards, your parents (or someone else you love) are killed, and Superman is unable to save them. In this situation, I wouldn't be surprised if you would harshly lash out at Superman, "What do you mean you couldn't save my parents? You save everybody! What good are you? I hate you!"

(note, I mean "you" in general---I'm not referring to DAK specifically )

Actually, the biggest complaint I have about Amy Pond is that she seems to be far too well-adjusted for someone who lived through the death of her parents, a move from a familiar place (Scotland) to an unfamiliar one (England), a neglectful aunt, and having the one adult who actually listened to her (the Doctor) abandon her for 12 years after promising not to, and defending him the whole time against people who didn't believe her and thought she was lying or insane. If anything, I'd expect more inappropriate behaviour than what we're seeing onscreen.

 

[David cgc]

This is reminding me of a story I heard on "The Moth" this weekend, from a firefighter. He was talking about finding two little kids who died in a fire they started by playing with matches when they were left home alone. The mother was just getting back home and saw her children's bodies and started crying and running towards them, and the fireman himself was so distraught by what had happened that he stopped her and snapped that she should've cared about them that much before she left them home alone. He said that if there was one thing he could change in his life, he would've kept his mouth shut and comforted that woman.

People get really petty and really angry when they're suffering. The deepest cuts I've given and received have come through tears. The man Amy loved was dead. I don't think she gave a damn if the Doctor got his feelings hurt at that moment.

One line from Amy ruined this entire episode for me. Her reply to the Doctor when Rory died and he said he couldn't save everyone: "Then what's the point of you?" You could see how much that hurt him. I mean, WTF?! Who does she think she is? If she thinks so little of him, maybe she should just go back to her dull life on Earth and marry Rory.

I'm sure she'd have loved to at that moment. Unfortunately, Rory had just been killed right in front of her. That was the entire point of the episode. She didn't know what she had until it was gone.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Slugboy?

Kissogramming is entry level whoring.

Nothing wrong with whoring in my mind, it's just a very unpleasant way to make a lot of money quickly if you've already flushed your life down the toilet.

If I was pretty enough to whore, I probably would.

Now consider unless they left the TARDIS with a with a load of Pirate treasure over each of their shoulders, Amy carried Rory through medical school by kissing as many men as she could for money while he focussed on his education.

Her messy childhood broke her up good that this was the occupation she settled into.

 

[G2309]

I loved this episode even if the ending felt like a bit of a cheat on reflection I think it's part of something bigger. Old people with zimmer frames as monsters, brilliant. I like the way they shooting in a village rather than having everything set in london, makes the series feel even more British.
Rory's really grown on me although i think Amy could do with more development. Besides her ability to save the day we dont know much about her. Although i guess few of the companions ever got much of a back story.

 

[Iasius]

This was a great character episode, and does remind me of "Edge of Distruction" as was mentioned upthread. I especially liked mentioning the Doctor's inability to apologize, which put in mind the Doctor's rather non-apology to Barbara in "Edge..." Very fun character piece.

The Doctor did say "I'm sorry" when he couldn't save Rory just a few minutes later.

I think that's one of the most interesting aspects of the Doctor. We are shown that he cares, but at the same time, the history of the series also shows that he does move on. He doesn't dwell on regrets when things need to be done.

That may be part of the "dark side" the Doctor doesn't like about himself. He may wish that he gets time to mourn people and choices, even things he couldn't change. However he doesn't let that interfere with his sense of duty.

 

[Slugboy]

Nothing wrong with whoring in my mind, it's just a very unpleasant way to make a lot of money quickly if you've already flushed your life down the toilet.

If I was pretty enough to whore, I probably would.

Taking your second statement in the context of your first, are you trying to tell us something about your life, Guy Gardener?

Now consider unless they left the TARDIS with a with a load of Pirate treasure over each of their shoulders, Amy carried Rory through medical school by kissing as many men as she could for money while he focussed on his education.

Perhaps. Or perhaps he just got a large student loan, or saved up his income from nursing

 

[BenRoethig]

Courtesy of one of the folks over at GB.

Great...

.... cue the nitpicks?

-- Aren't TARDIS grown not built?
-- Was it created in an actually blackhole or is "Blackhole Shipyard" the name of a locale on Gallifrey.
-- Why is it authorized by the Shadow Proclamation, wouldn't the Time Lords be the ultimate authority

I think its DW's parody of a starfleet ship dedication plaque.

 

[David cgc]

In either a Confidential or an on-line Making-of, they mentioned that the last console room had a builder's plaque in it, too. God only knows where, though.

 

[DAK]

Slugboy, David cgc, thanks, you guys have made some great points.

An analogy...imagine you grew up captivated by stories of Superman and how he always saves the day. Finally, one day, it turns out that Superman is real and he comes to visit you! You're obviously thrilled to meet your hero. Not long afterwards, your parents (or someone else you love) are killed, and Superman is unable to save them. In this situation, I wouldn't be surprised if you would harshly lash out at Superman, "What do you mean you couldn't save my parents? You save everybody! What good are you? I hate you!"

Well, if I'd traveled the universe with the guy for some time and had come to treasure him as a friend, I would hope I wouldn't say something so awful to him. Amy has to realize he has feelings, she saw how nearly killing the star whale had upset him several adventures ago.

Actually, the biggest complaint I have about Amy Pond is that she seems to be far too well-adjusted for someone who lived through the death of her parents, a move from a familiar place (Scotland) to an unfamiliar one (England), a neglectful aunt, and having the one adult who actually listened to her (the Doctor) abandon her for 12 years after promising not to, and defending him the whole time against people who didn't believe her and thought she was lying or insane. If anything, I'd expect more inappropriate behaviour than what we're seeing onscreen.

Well, we don't know all that much about her - for all we know she has a criminal record and the only job she could get was a kissogram! Actually, maybe that explains her bratty and rude behavior towards the Doctor, like she feels he owes her something for what he put her through.

One line from Amy ruined this entire episode for me. Her reply to the Doctor when Rory died and he said he couldn't save everyone: "Then what's the point of you?" You could see how much that hurt him. I mean, WTF?! Who does she think she is? If she thinks so little of him, maybe she should just go back to her dull life on Earth and marry Rory.

I'm sure she'd have loved to at that moment. Unfortunately, Rory had just been killed right in front of her. That was the entire point of the episode. She didn't know what she had until it was gone.

I meant after all was resolved at the end. She knows what life she wants now, why not ask the Doctor to take them back immediately, before something really does happen to one of them? I know that's not going to happen obviously, since the actress is signed on for next season, but what reason does she have to stay now?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sane people do not bite their psychiatrists, and really, even mental people with but an ounce of self preservation do not bite their psychiatrists.

Locked up in a rubber being fed thorazine suppositories till she turned 40 if she didn't mind her attitude.

The fact she doesn't panic, says more so that she is mental on the inside rather than insane because NORMAL people, do not tackle the supercilious with such composure without medication.

 

[Slugboy]

Sane people do not bite their psychiatrists, and really, even mental people with but an ounce of self preservation do not bite their psychiatrists.

I think I've seen other posters mention Amy biting her psychiatrists (or was it just multiple mentions from you? ) Which episode was this from? If you are thinking of The Eleventh Hour, and the conversation Amy has with the Doctor as they walk up the path after she says "Twelve years, and four psychiatrists", I'm pretty sure she says "I kept fighting them" and not "I kept biting them", unless my understanding of Scottish accents is seriously flawed.

Speaking of accents, if my leaden non-British ear is correct, Amy fakes a Received Pronunciation accent when she's pretending to be a policewoman after "arresting" the Doctor in her house (also in The Eleventh Hour). Despite her panic after seeing Prisoner Zero in snake form, and getting menaced by him in man-and-dog form, she somehow manages to preserve the RP accent. Usually people revert to their "native" (in Amy's case, Scottish) accent when in a panic. Mind you, I'm sure the episode director did this on purpose to make it less obvious that the policewoman was really Amelia Pond all grown up.

 

[Hoser]

One line from Amy ruined this entire episode for me. Her reply to the Doctor when Rory died and he said he couldn't save everyone: "Then what's the point of you?" You could see how much that hurt him.

That's the though, if she'd been more worried about how the Doctor felt, then she wouldn't really have been making the choice she did in the end.
In the end, she was caring more for Rory than the Doctor....

...that, and when you actually lose someone that close to you, you aren't very rational, you're emotional. Which the Doctor knows ....

 

[Guy Gardener]

27 minutes and 16 seconds into my copy of the 11 hour, I'm pretty certain she says "biting" after just listening to it with my eyes shut carefully again 4 times.

Are you suggesting that she's not wonderful to keep her accent in the face of all that Englishness, but that the more Scottish she sounds, the more MAD she is becoming as the thickening of her accent is a yard stick against which her mentalness is measured?

 

[Starkers]

I heard "Biting them", makes more sense imo.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I'd say the psychiatrist issue is made too much of. The family and community felt this was a child not outgrowing a fantasy friend that she was overly fixated on. Amy, and we, know the Doctor is real, but the village and schools certainly don't. Their attempts to get Amy to say the Doctor isn't real lead a childhood Amy to frustration and biting. The attempts to make Amy analyse herself as having a problem were the real problem, she was fighting back against an attempt to impose an untruth on her.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Oops, glitch

 

[Guy Gardener]

Think it through people.

If the doctor doesn't exist, didn't exist.

then...

She EXPLODED the family shed.

Without a timemachine falling from the heavens, Amelia either has a secret store of explosives or she spent 8 hours whacking the shit out of the shed with a cricket bat till it was a dead frakk and THEN she blamed it on her imaginary friend.

By explosives I of course mean hundreds of bangers left over from guy fawkes, unrolled and emptied into a bucket with an oily rag plumbed in for a fuse, but in either case that's some serious crazy.

 

[scout]

I agree Gov Kodos. People seem to equate the fact that Amy saw four psychiatrists as a child, when she persisted in an outwardly delusional belief (an alien 'Doctor' is coming back to take me travelling) with Adult Amy being 'crazy, she saw four psychiatrists'.

Lashing out emotionally when you see someone you love die in front of you is hardly a sign of mental instability. Its a sign of grief - which can be expressed differently by different people. Some will still be in shock as the enormity hasn't hit them and can appear to be calm. Some will be unable to stop crying, for months. There is no 'normal' when it comes to grief.

I like Amy. Better than Rose or Martha, that's for sure.

 

[Guy Gardener]

How many psychiatrists are there in Leadworth?

Two? Possibly Three?

They'd probably have had to drive in the car for hours to find someone reputable?