Iron Man 2: Grading, Review, Discussion **SPOILERS**
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Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Do we even know that Natasha should speak with a Russian accent or do we just assume so because she's Russian?
I <3 the post-credits scenes of these movies. They really do whet the appetite for the next film. Once we have a complete Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America and Avengers movie set it literally will be the greatest series of movies ever.
Do we even know that Natasha should speak with a Russian accent or do we just assume so because she's Russian?
I <3 the post-credits scenes of these movies. They really do whet the appetite for the next film. Once we have a complete Iron Man, Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America and Avengers movie set it literally will be the greatest series of movies ever.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
I tend to assume she would because she speaks with one in the comics.
I tend to assume she would because she speaks with one in the comics.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
I hope we all recognised the shield, I mean badge that she flashed.
YES. Unlike say, Elektra, a Black Widow movie could the big break-out movie for female heroes, and hopefully DC/Warners would take notice and finally give us Wonder Woman
Sam Jackson playing Sam Jackson is badass
Yes, but is it stated in the comics that she speaks with a Russian accent or do we just 'read' it that way?
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
It depends on who is writing her but she sometimes 'speaks' with one. It's hard to explain, it's little things like saying 'Da' instead of 'Yes' for example.
Not quite the same thing as Thor 'speaking' in that weird font, though.
It depends on who is writing her but she sometimes 'speaks' with one. It's hard to explain, it's little things like saying 'Da' instead of 'Yes' for example.
Not quite the same thing as Thor 'speaking' in that weird font, though.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Yeah I had a problem that she didn't revert back to her Russian accent after she was revealed to Tony as a SHIELD agent but as Jackson Archer suggested to me during a discussion to me the decision was probably made to limit the Russian due to Ivan speaking mostly in Russian for the entirety of the movie and not confuse the audience. Sort of like how in the Dune mini-series John Harrison wanted to keep a limit on how many names Paul was given so that the audience wasn't confused...a decision that I disagreed with. I'm hoping that 'Tasha's accent will return in "The Avengers" or her spin off movie which has already been rumored to be happened.
Also Tasha used a combination of martial arts moves like judo and probably akkdo along with her smoke grenades and other gadgets to take care of the guards.
Yeah I had a problem that she didn't revert back to her Russian accent after she was revealed to Tony as a SHIELD agent but as Jackson Archer suggested to me during a discussion to me the decision was probably made to limit the Russian due to Ivan speaking mostly in Russian for the entirety of the movie and not confuse the audience. Sort of like how in the Dune mini-series John Harrison wanted to keep a limit on how many names Paul was given so that the audience wasn't confused...a decision that I disagreed with. I'm hoping that 'Tasha's accent will return in "The Avengers" or her spin off movie which has already been rumored to be happened.
Also Tasha used a combination of martial arts moves like judo and probably akkdo along with her smoke grenades and other gadgets to take care of the guards.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
^Without going to far in to this, she did a lot to avoid being hit. That's my biggest problem with scenes like this.
Martial arts training does not change basic things. It does not change the fact that taking a punch from someone that much larger than you, especially to the head, is going to do damage.
What Natasha does here is avoid getting hit, which neutralises her larger opponent's key advantage, and uses attacks that are designed to take out her opponent as quickly as possible. She wins by being faster and smarter than her opponents as well as distracting them with various devices at her disposal, nothing I have a problem with and certainly true to the character. Alias was a show where they did this well too.
In other such sequences, you end up with the smaller opponent taking punches and shrugging off attacks from much larger opponents - a good example is the fight in Dollhouse's "Man in the Street". Echo is somehow magically able to take punches that would outright kill her in reality. It's those kind of sequences that ignore obvious differences between opponents that I find ridiculous.
^Without going to far in to this, she did a lot to avoid being hit. That's my biggest problem with scenes like this.
Martial arts training does not change basic things. It does not change the fact that taking a punch from someone that much larger than you, especially to the head, is going to do damage.
What Natasha does here is avoid getting hit, which neutralises her larger opponent's key advantage, and uses attacks that are designed to take out her opponent as quickly as possible. She wins by being faster and smarter than her opponents as well as distracting them with various devices at her disposal, nothing I have a problem with and certainly true to the character. Alias was a show where they did this well too.
In other such sequences, you end up with the smaller opponent taking punches and shrugging off attacks from much larger opponents - a good example is the fight in Dollhouse's "Man in the Street". Echo is somehow magically able to take punches that would outright kill her in reality. It's those kind of sequences that ignore obvious differences between opponents that I find ridiculous.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
according to Favreau, a lot of Natasha's moves are actually from Lucha Libre. yes, as in the Mexican wrestling.
according to Favreau, a lot of Natasha's moves are actually from Lucha Libre. yes, as in the Mexican wrestling.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Just got back from midnight showing and it was absolutely amazing. It completely surpassed the first for me.
Witty dialog, great acting, awesome fight scenes, fun humor, good plot. What more could you ask?
Just got back from midnight showing and it was absolutely amazing. It completely surpassed the first for me.
Witty dialog, great acting, awesome fight scenes, fun humor, good plot. What more could you ask?
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
That makes a lot of sense, actually.
Probably the most famous person in the US to use that style is Rey Mysterio. He does exactly what I'm talking about - he avoids getting hit and uses fast moves that use his opponents weight and momentum against them.
Mysterio is proficient enough that it's believable when he won the WWE World Heavyweight Championship a few years ago or when he wrestles guys like Dave Batista or Kane who are much, much bigger than him.
That makes a lot of sense, actually.
Probably the most famous person in the US to use that style is Rey Mysterio. He does exactly what I'm talking about - he avoids getting hit and uses fast moves that use his opponents weight and momentum against them.
Mysterio is proficient enough that it's believable when he won the WWE World Heavyweight Championship a few years ago or when he wrestles guys like Dave Batista or Kane who are much, much bigger than him.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Just got back from the midnight showing and thought it was a blast. So did everybody else in the theater!
I wasn't big on the casting change for Rhodey. He did an okay job, but the chemistry between Tony and Rhodey just wasn't quite as good as in the first one. Otherwise, I loved it.
Just got back from the midnight showing and thought it was a blast. So did everybody else in the theater!
I wasn't big on the casting change for Rhodey. He did an okay job, but the chemistry between Tony and Rhodey just wasn't quite as good as in the first one. Otherwise, I loved it.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Loved the movie, gave it top marks...
One, Scarlett Johansson so should get her own spin off movie. She showed in this movie that she has the skills to pull off action sequences, which was the biggest "up in the air" about her when her casting was announced. I think that putting her in the lead of her own film based around this character could, as was mentioned earlier in this thread, really break open the female superhero market.
two, I was happy that they made a point of showing, if not talking, about Tony's drinking issues. From Pepper's asking him if he was, to showing him with drinks in most every non iron man sequence, getting progressively heaver as his condition worsened. Tony was collapsing into himself and his personal demons were getting hold of him. I think that his big turn around moment was after watching his fathers message to him. A lot of his issues stemmed from his father and his precised relationship with him. That was the turning point when he was at his personal lowest, and what swung him around.
Three, Truncated timing with the final conflicts. This is a major problem of action films of late in general, and I was hoping that IM2 would be spared from it. Alas, my hopes didn't pan out, and my fears were true. That end battle was about 20 to 30 min's too short. It was cut too fast, and far to fast paced. This is a serious problem that hollywood needs to get under control!
Loved the movie, gave it top marks...
One, Scarlett Johansson so should get her own spin off movie. She showed in this movie that she has the skills to pull off action sequences, which was the biggest "up in the air" about her when her casting was announced. I think that putting her in the lead of her own film based around this character could, as was mentioned earlier in this thread, really break open the female superhero market.
two, I was happy that they made a point of showing, if not talking, about Tony's drinking issues. From Pepper's asking him if he was, to showing him with drinks in most every non iron man sequence, getting progressively heaver as his condition worsened. Tony was collapsing into himself and his personal demons were getting hold of him. I think that his big turn around moment was after watching his fathers message to him. A lot of his issues stemmed from his father and his precised relationship with him. That was the turning point when he was at his personal lowest, and what swung him around.
Three, Truncated timing with the final conflicts. This is a major problem of action films of late in general, and I was hoping that IM2 would be spared from it. Alas, my hopes didn't pan out, and my fears were true. That end battle was about 20 to 30 min's too short. It was cut too fast, and far to fast paced. This is a serious problem that hollywood needs to get under control!
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
20 to 30 minutes?!
I could see it being longer, I suppose, but not that long!
20 to 30 minutes?!
I could see it being longer, I suppose, but not that long!
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Yeah...I was pleasantly surprised that Vanko was dealt with quite quickly.
Long drawn out battles get old real fast...like those shitty James Bond movies where the last 25 minutes are at the bad guy's facility and they blow stuff up and stop the clock with 0:07 on it and somehow the big strong henchman dies before the weak old bad guy.
Yeah...I was pleasantly surprised that Vanko was dealt with quite quickly.
Long drawn out battles get old real fast...like those shitty James Bond movies where the last 25 minutes are at the bad guy's facility and they blow stuff up and stop the clock with 0:07 on it and somehow the big strong henchman dies before the weak old bad guy.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
A Russian master-spy wouldn't speak English with a Russian accent.
I liked the movie; it didn't have the same freshness as the first one, admittedly.
I think the limited interaction between Tony and the actual villains probably played a part in that; his meeting with Vanko in Monaco was excellent, but they really don't have any substantial scenes together after that. Sam Rockwell's Justin Hammer is well-played, but he's a complete buffoon, not really meant to be taken seriously - I thought this version of Hammer was interesting. Usually "mirror" characters are people who are like the protagonist, but better; here we've got a guy who has clearly consciously tried to be Tony Stark, but can't quite pull it off.
It's been stated on a number of occasions that she doesn't have one (though, of course, given all the writers involved over the years, there are undoubtedly some counterexamples).
A Russian master-spy wouldn't speak English with a Russian accent.
I liked the movie; it didn't have the same freshness as the first one, admittedly.
I think the limited interaction between Tony and the actual villains probably played a part in that; his meeting with Vanko in Monaco was excellent, but they really don't have any substantial scenes together after that. Sam Rockwell's Justin Hammer is well-played, but he's a complete buffoon, not really meant to be taken seriously - I thought this version of Hammer was interesting. Usually "mirror" characters are people who are like the protagonist, but better; here we've got a guy who has clearly consciously tried to be Tony Stark, but can't quite pull it off.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Absolutely. The music needed to go. I think had that been removed, the scene would have flowed a bit more seamlessly and it wouldn't have come off as tonally incoherent. I honestly would have preferred to see Iron Man trying to help people or stop terrorism or something along those lines and he exhibits some erratic reckless behavior. Blowing up some items in his house was weak in comparison to some of the thematically weighty things he could have done to really drive the point home that he was becoming increasingly unstable.
Absolutely. The music needed to go. I think had that been removed, the scene would have flowed a bit more seamlessly and it wouldn't have come off as tonally incoherent. I honestly would have preferred to see Iron Man trying to help people or stop terrorism or something along those lines and he exhibits some erratic reckless behavior. Blowing up some items in his house was weak in comparison to some of the thematically weighty things he could have done to really drive the point home that he was becoming increasingly unstable.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
Agreed, way to waste the fact that you have two of the most compelling actors at work today in the same movie.
The problem also was that we've already seen this sort of angle taken in Batman Forever (Edward Nygma's hero-worship of Bruce Wayne turning to enmity) and Spider-man 3 (between Peter/ Spidey and Eddir Brock/ Venom). Which added to my feeling that this movie was more like a second sequel, where they're beginning to run out of ideas.
I really like Rockwell as an actor but other than his little dance at the end where he came on stage (probably improvised), I didn't really care for his performance in IM2 one way or the other - he was just ... there.
Agreed, way to waste the fact that you have two of the most compelling actors at work today in the same movie.
The problem also was that we've already seen this sort of angle taken in Batman Forever (Edward Nygma's hero-worship of Bruce Wayne turning to enmity) and Spider-man 3 (between Peter/ Spidey and Eddir Brock/ Venom). Which added to my feeling that this movie was more like a second sequel, where they're beginning to run out of ideas.
I really like Rockwell as an actor but other than his little dance at the end where he came on stage (probably improvised), I didn't really care for his performance in IM2 one way or the other - he was just ... there.
Re: Iron Man 2 - Grading & Discussion Thread (spoilers guaranteed)
I don't see either of those guys as comparable to Hammer - Nygma's a nerdy scientist who feels Wayne didn't respect him (and his revenge wasn't directed at Wayne); Brock is a more traditional opposite character, Peter without his sense of responsibility.