"Peak Performance" Question

[Python Trek]

In the season 2 ep. "Peak Performance", it is said that for 9,000 years the Zakdorn have been considered throughout the galaxy to be master strategists. Does this seem "off" to you? The Zakdorn are UFP members (or at least allies), and they have had interstellar travel for 9,000 years? Sooooo.......they travelled the galaxy beating various alien races at Strategema or Monopoly or whatever, but didn't manage in nine milennia to colonize the whole Milky Way, or even accumulate useful data about the galaxy that could aid Starfleet's mission of exploration?

 

[Trilliam]

A pretty dumb episode & premise from start to finish.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

The Zakdorn were severely underwritten in that whole episode. I mean you knew their rep would fall by the wayside by the episode's end, but was it really necessary to make Kolrami such an ineffectual pussy?

 

[Timo]

One might say that the Germans have been known as mighty warriors throughout the galaxy for the past two thousand years. After all, we never know who might be looking... Perhaps the Zakdorn worked up a rep long before going interstellar?

OTOH, Vulcans were interstellar for 3,000 years before the UFP was founded. We can't really say that they didn't contribute to the expansion of the UFP, even though we're never explicitly told what they contributed. But clearly, three millennia ain't enough to overrun the entire galaxy, especially when other cultures are refusing to cooperate. I mean, no nation on Earth has managed to conquer all of the surface area, and they've had at least as long as the Zakdorn to try it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shatnertage]

It does seem to be an example of "write first, ask questions later." Within the structure of the story, it makes sense to say that the Zakdorn have been unchallenged for a really, really long time (kind of). Within the universe that Star Trek is set in, not so much.

To me the bigger question is why does Kolrami's genius have to be a racial thing? Because basically that's the premise beneath the whole concept of "legendary masters of strategy," the idea that all XXX people are XXX. It seems to diminish the role of individual accomplishment or even aspiration. Why even try to play stratagema if you'll never be able to beat the Zakdorn, for the mere fact that you weren't born Zakdorn?

A common Trek trope, I know, but it's still annoying. It's funny that on a show that prides itself on showing an inclusive future, characters (particularly incidental ones) are for the most part defined by their species, not themselves.

Why not have him be a really smart and motivated human, or Andorian, or even (gulp) Pakled?

 

[Praxius]

In the season 2 ep. "Peak Performance", it is said that for 9,000 years the Zakdorn have been considered throughout the galaxy to be master strategists. Does this seem "off" to you? The Zakdorn are UFP members (or at least allies), and they have had interstellar travel for 9,000 years? Sooooo.......they travelled the galaxy beating various alien races at Strategema or Monopoly or whatever, but didn't manage in nine milennia to colonize the whole Milky Way, or even accumulate useful data about the galaxy that could aid Starfleet's mission of exploration?

Neither did the Klingons and they were very formidable strategists and fighters/competitors.

That guy was there to help the Enterprise fine tune its combat abilities because of their knowledge in such things, not play games (that was just a recreational thing)

But above all that, just because his species is very good at strategy and traveled space for 9000 years or so, doesn't automatically mean they're a species bent on galactic conquest and rule.... it sounds to me that they probably used their abilities and skills to survive this long, AKA: Perhaps they're a passive culture.

 

[Praxius]

It does seem to be an example of "write first, ask questions later." Within the structure of the story, it makes sense to say that the Zakdorn have been unchallenged for a really, really long time (kind of). Within the universe that Star Trek is set in, not so much.

To me the bigger question is why does Kolrami's genius have to be a racial thing? Because basically that's the premise beneath the whole concept of "legendary masters of strategy," the idea that all XXX people are XXX. It seems to diminish the role of individual accomplishment or even aspiration. Why even try to play stratagema if you'll never be able to beat the Zakdorn, for the mere fact that you weren't born Zakdorn?

A common Trek trope, I know, but it's still annoying. It's funny that on a show that prides itself on showing an inclusive future, characters (particularly incidental ones) are for the most part defined by their species, not themselves.

Why not have him be a really smart and motivated human, or Andorian, or even (gulp) Pakled?

From what I gathered from the episode, this guy took his species history and background as a sort of medal pinned to his shirt to show off to everybody.... I wouldn't say his whole species is exactly like himself as portrayed in the episode, but that was his over-confident personality.

But as the Vulcans tended to see themselves at the most logical and most reasoned species, these people probably saw themselves in much the same way in the aspects of strategy and tactics....... which both have on a number of occasions, been proven wrong.

Which Data ended up doing in the end when he beat him at the game. You take the strengths someone boasts about and turn them into weaknesses.

Rather then Data attempting to beat him at the game, which Kolrami most certainly knew everything about (the game) and how to win it, Data attempted to try a different "Strategy" of not beating him, but stale mating him to the point where he got frustrated and gave up the fight..... thus he lost and therefore, while his species are known to be really good strategist, they are not at all perfect.

Nobody is.

 

[Timo]

To me the bigger question is why does Kolrami's genius have to be a racial thing?

Racial? I'd argue it's cultural. After all, Germans have to be famous warriors "on the average" because they happen to live smack in the middle of the most desirable part of arable land in mainland Europe. Mongols, Huns and their like have to be famous conquering nomads because that's the only way to make a name in the vastness of central Asia. Perhaps the Zakdorn were forced by astrographical or political facts to be master strategists lest they be conquered - and perhaps their strategy was mainly defensive, a matter of holding on to one's territory (and possibly gradually expanding it) while letting the others futilely fight each other.

Although in that latter case, one would expect Data's "winning" strategy to have been the one that the Zakdorn would naturally be very good at defeating...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shatnertage]

By "racial" I mean species-specific, as in "human race" vs. "Zakdorn race." Whether it's by culture or biology doesn't make a difference to me. It's just that it indicates a way of looking at the universe that's fundamentally racial (or speciesal?). This is a part of Trek that makes me uncomfortable, because if you accept the premise that Trek is using alien settings to tell stories relevant to today's world, then it's essentially telling us that one's background, not one's own character, is the primary determinant of one's behavior.

I think it's just bad writing. Instead of explaining that Kolrami is very good at strategy because he's studied tactics and beaten the best, just say that his species is good at strategy and that's that. It doesn't really limit my enjoyment of 47 minutes of television, but if you look more closely under the hood, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I think it's just bad writing. Instead of explaining that Kolrami is very good at strategy because he's studied tactics and beaten the best, just say that his species is good at strategy and that's that. It doesn't really limit my enjoyment of 47 minutes of television, but if you look more closely under the hood, it just doesn't make sense.

You seem to be uncomfortable with the idea of racial attributes in general, be they physical or cultural. But these things do exist.
Be that as it may, if Kolrami was a "grand master" of the game, it doesn't follow that he got that ranking just because of his race. He'd clearly played it many times before.
I'm not seeing the bad writing here. It is a goofy character, but other than that, I find it a pretty good S2 ep.

 

[Shatnertage]

I don't see how it's possible to apply something as general as "great at strategy" to any large group of people. I could understand saying something like "Canadians are better than others playing hockey," but think it falls down when you turn it into "Canadians are better at sports than others." So if they're saying that strategema is the national (planetary?) game of the Zakdorn, and he's the champion, that's one thing, but suggesting that somehow they have an inherently more strategic mind than others (which is what Worf was scoffing at) is another.

It's a decent episode--Riker baiting Worf into joining his team is a great moment--but it's just funny to me that, if they needed an alien, they had to create a new, one-off species whose main attribute was "they're good strategists." Like I said earlier in the thread, it makes sense within the confines of the story, but not so much if you try to extrapolate from that and imagine the (fictional) universe this is set in.

Also, I'm wondering...is there any outside expert, ambassador, or authority figure in any episode of Star Trek who isn't a total tool? Because there seems to be a real shortage of competent, amiable people showing up over the history of the show.

 

[Timo]

I don't see how it's possible to apply something as general as "great at strategy" to any large group of people.

But strategy is something that rarely manifests in a single person. One could be the greatest strategist of all time - but lacking an army, one would never be able to do anything of strategic significance.

Only groups of people can be "great strategists", then - even if only one of them does the thinking and the rest do the fighting for him or her. And one would expect these groups to be of decisive size. In the galactic scheme of things, an entire species could very well be needed for its strategists to rise to prominence. And a species-wide set of circumstances might be the only way to pressure a species into becoming strategically adept, i.e. good at surviving.

On a more general note, the only way a species might retain an indentity in the galactic scheme might be to specialize, to find a niche. The Zakdorn culture might have been diluted into the galactic whole had they not decided that they'd brand themselves "great strategists" - a great strategy in itself. What would be left of the human culture after 9,000 years of contact? We'd just be another bump-foreheaded alien species without defining attributes (except perhaps for our bumps being the shallowest of all).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Shatnertage]

On a more general note, the only way a species might retain an indentity in the galactic scheme might be to specialize, to find a niche.

Timo Saloniemi

Very interesting point. I hadn't thought of it that way. From what we've seen to screen, what do you think humans are good at, besides getting the most screen-time?

In the original series it seems to be a sense of adventure. On Enterprise, Observer Effect suggests that it's empathy. Any other ideas?

 

[RAMA]

In the season 2 ep. "Peak Performance", it is said that for 9,000 years the Zakdorn have been considered throughout the galaxy to be master strategists. Does this seem "off" to you? The Zakdorn are UFP members (or at least allies), and they have had interstellar travel for 9,000 years? Sooooo.......they travelled the galaxy beating various alien races at Strategema or Monopoly or whatever, but didn't manage in nine milennia to colonize the whole Milky Way, or even accumulate useful data about the galaxy that could aid Starfleet's mission of exploration?

There are examples of aliens who arent interested in colonization (the Vulcans did very little, one reason the Roms left), and who've had space travel longer than most. There are also examples of powerful, advanced nations on Earth that do little if any colonization (the USA).

Are we sure the Zakdorn never supplied useful info about their local system(s)? Never really was mentioned. I don't really find any problems with how the Zakdorn are presented, although I'm sure there is variation within the species on their predilection for playing strategy games.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

On a more general note, the only way a species might retain an indentity in the galactic scheme might be to specialize, to find a niche.

Timo Saloniemi

Very interesting point. I hadn't thought of it that way. From what we've seen to screen, what do you think humans are good at, besides getting the most screen-time?

In the original series it seems to be a sense of adventure. On Enterprise, Observer Effect suggests that it's empathy. Any other ideas?

Yes, they are good at producing all shows currently on TV.

 

[Timo]

Are you sure about that? I mean, I've seen some shows that really make me suspicious...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SpyOne]

On a more general note, the only way a species might retain an indentity in the galactic scheme might be to specialize, to find a niche.

Timo Saloniemi

Very interesting point. I hadn't thought of it that way. From what we've seen to screen, what do you think humans are good at, besides getting the most screen-time?

In the original series it seems to be a sense of adventure. On Enterprise, Observer Effect suggests that it's empathy. Any other ideas?

Generalists. We're better at fighting than most non-Klingons, we're better at thinking than most non-Vulcans, and so on. Much like we are on earth: we run faster than anything that climbs as well as we do, and climb better than anything that runs as fast. We swim better than most any non-aquatic species, and we survive deserts better than most any amphibian. We are the Jack of All Trades, Master of None. Somebody is better than us at most anything, but nobody is better than us at everything.

On a less serious note, I have liked these two examples (drawn from various fiction sources) for what we bring to Galactic Society:
1) Fast Food. Nobody else had the concept.
2) Popsicles. "Which species are you, again?" "Human." "And which one is that?" "Popsicles." "Ah, yes. The delicious frozen desert. Wonderful people, I attend all their parties."

 

[RAMA]

Are you sure about that? I mean, I've seen some shows that really make me suspicious...

Timo Saloniemi