5x03 Victory of the Daleks (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!

[The Wormhole]

It was an enjoyable episode. It was nice to go against what has become the standard Dalek convention in nuWho: massive armies which are defeated by the Doctor resulting in "extinction" of the Daleks. I hope they never try to make us believe the Daleks are extinct again. They're going to return anyway, what's the point in wiping them all out?

And what's all this nonsense about those three Daleks not being "pure" Daleks? These guys were from The Stolen Earth/Journey's End (or so was implied in the dialogue). Davros made those Daleks from his own flesh. Literally, as we learned from the scene when he undid his shirt. Wouldn't that make them the purest form of Dalek?

Still, despite all the awesome the episode had, Daleks, Churchill, WWII figher planes in space, it just felt like there could have been more. The episode seemed to lack sufficient punch.

Still, Churchill was awesome. The Daleks pretending to be servants was quite amusing, as was the Doctor pretending the cookie was the self-destruct device for the TARDIS. An all-around solid and entertaining hour.

 

[Worf2DS9]

I thought the episode was pretty good. Even those new Daleks didn't look too bad in action (looking forward to the action figures). I wasn't thrilled with the actor who portrayed Churchill, and wasn't the robot actor previously seen back in Series 2 as the right-hand man of the Cybus guy? Hm, associating with both Cybermen and Daleks, hmm. oh, and I liked Amy's new outfit too.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

And what's all this nonsense about those three Daleks not being "pure" Daleks? These guys were from The Stolen Earth/Journey's End (or so was implied in the dialogue). Davros made those Daleks from his own flesh. Literally, as we learned from the scene when he undid his shirt. Wouldn't that make them the purest form of Dalek?

That's what I thought.

 

[23skidoo]

And what's all this nonsense about those three Daleks not being "pure" Daleks? These guys were from The Stolen Earth/Journey's End (or so was implied in the dialogue). Davros made those Daleks from his own flesh. Literally, as we learned from the scene when he undid his shirt. Wouldn't that make them the purest form of Dalek?

Not necessarily. Note that Davros really wasn't in charge in Journey's End, and also the Emperor way back in Parting of the Ways riffed on how he'd created pure Dalek, too. I think the point is they can't really make up their collective minds. Remembering the Daleks were in part inspired by the Nazis, one of the big ironies of history is that Hitler was pushing for the creation of a "master Aryan race", yet he himself fit almost none of the criteria that he'd set out.

Alex

 

[wamdue]

yes the impurity of the Daleks was odd, the Daleks that came from Davros should have been if not pure, but at least pure enough for them to be recognised, the half human Daleks of Parting of the Ways, should all have been destroyed, there is no reason any small part of them would survive.

 

[David cgc]

If anyone could split hairs about racial purity, it'd be a Dalek. Even if the original Daleks were made by "donations" from Davros, they would've had thousands of generations of additional mutation to set them apart from the fresh batch of mutants that were only one generation from being Kaled. And, knowing Davros, he'd probably fiddled with the formula when he made his new empire. The man's a tinkerer.

Either way, they'd still be cousins, and not brothers.

 

[Sci]

LOL, and the symbolic destruction of the RTD Daleks, which BTW i like the RTD Daleks but thw way they were disintergrated was just an awsome slap in thh face for RTD Who.

Considering that Moffat and RTD are friends in real life who have a great deal of respect for one-another's work, I'm always surprised when fans assume that something Moffat's doing today is meant as a "slap in the face" for RTD's era.

And what's all this nonsense about those three Daleks not being "pure" Daleks? These guys were from The Stolen Earth/Journey's End (or so was implied in the dialogue). Davros made those Daleks from his own flesh. Literally, as we learned from the scene when he undid his shirt. Wouldn't that make them the purest form of Dalek?

No, it would make them tainted by Davros's DNA. Remember, Davros is inferior to the Daleks in the Daleks' minds, because he's not a Dalek. That's why he was their prisoner aboard the Crucible rather than their leader.

 

[Australis]

Daleks are racist.

 

[Cutter John]

Considering that Moffat and RTD are friends in real life who have a great deal of respect for one-another's work, I'm always surprised when fans assume that something Moffat's doing today is meant as a "slap in the face" for RTD's era.

People are just trying to come up with some explaination for the redesign. Which really was, if you get right down to it. Pointless and unnecessary.

But y'know, I can live with it. Just as long as they never again turn up with a million of their friends to destroy the Earth.

 

[Bones2]

But y'know, I can live with it. Just as long as they never again turn up with a million of their friends to destroy the Earth.

People would die laughing.

 

[Jim Steele]

LOL, and the symbolic destruction of the RTD Daleks, which BTW i like the RTD Daleks but thw way they were disintergrated was just an awsome slap in thh face for RTD Who.

Considering that Moffat and RTD are friends in real life who have a great deal of respect for one-another's work, I'm always surprised when fans assume that something Moffat's doing today is meant as a "slap in the face" for RTD's era.

Me too. In fact, Moffat is one of the staunchest and most distinguished defenders of RTD's work online and elsewhere.

 

[Peter the Younger]

And what's all this nonsense about those three Daleks not being "pure" Daleks? These guys were from The Stolen Earth/Journey's End (or so was implied in the dialogue). Davros made those Daleks from his own flesh. Literally, as we learned from the scene when he undid his shirt. Wouldn't that make them the purest form of Dalek?

Not necessarily. The bits about them "returning to our own time", and the fact that the Progenitor wouldn't recognize them, led me to believe they were part of the fleet of "human DNA" Daleks who attacked Earth in the 51st Century, in "Parting of the Ways." The willingness of these three Daleks to accept death would fit with the self-loathing of the human-derived Daleks, as was implied in that earlier episode.

Davros' Daleks, on the other hand, didn't come from the future, he created them on the spot - unless we are assume the Crucible was grabbing the Earth and the other planets from the past for some reason, which wasn't indicated in the dialogue. Also, while it's possible that the Daleks were "splitting hairs," objecting to Davros-derived DNA, I think it makes a lot more sense if we're talking about the lot from "Parting of the Ways."

the half human Daleks of Parting of the Ways, should all have been destroyed, there is no reason any small part of them would survive.

Well there's no reason any Dalek should have survived any of the season finales, really. Maybe the ship temporal shifted at the last moment before Rose disintegrated them, just as Dalek Khan did (twice) in other episodes. Yes, it's hokey, but these are Daleks we're talking about, they (well, the writers) do this all the time.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Rose would have had no real "experience" with the power she was wielding in POTTW, she was overwhelmed to say the least, so it's possible she missed at least 1 ship's worth of Daleks.

A "blind spot".

 

[The Wormhole]

Not necessarily. The bits about them "returning to our own time", and the fact that the Progenitor wouldn't recognize them, led me to believe they were part of the fleet of "human DNA" Daleks who attacked Earth in the 51st Century, in "Parting of the Ways." The willingness of these three Daleks to accept death would fit with the self-loathing of the human-derived Daleks, as was implied in that earlier episode.

Davros' Daleks, on the other hand, didn't come from the future, he created them on the spot - unless we are assume the Crucible was grabbing the Earth and the other planets from the past for some reason, which wasn't indicated in the dialogue. Also, while it's possible that the Daleks were "splitting hairs," objecting to Davros-derived DNA, I think it makes a lot more sense if we're talking about the lot from "Parting of the Ways."

When the Doctor met with the Daleks on their ship, he made mention to "the last time we met" which would have been The Stolen Earth/Jouney's End, which seems to support the idea that that's where they're from.

Also, the Crucible was taking planets from various time periods. There was also Pyrovillia (from the past) and the lost moon of Poosh (from the future).

 

[Sci]

Rose would have had no real "experience" with the power she was wielding in POTTW, she was overwhelmed to say the least, so it's possible she missed at least 1 ship's worth of Daleks.

A "blind spot".

I don't think she would have missed anything. That was one of the things they said -- she saw everything. It's far more likely that a single ship escaped Donna's destructo-button than that a single ship escaped the Bad Wolf Entity/Rose.

 

[Rowan Sjet]

When the Doctor met with the Daleks on their ship, he made mention to "the last time we met" which would have been The Stolen Earth/Jouney's End, which seems to support the idea that that's where they're from.

But to the human-Daleks, "Parting of the Ways" was the last time they met, as they wouldn't know about "The Stolen Earth".

It's semantics really, they both work for different reasons.

 

[Peter the Younger]

When the Doctor met with the Daleks on their ship, he made mention to "the last time we met" which would have been The Stolen Earth/Jouney's End, which seems to support the idea that that's where they're from.

But to the human-Daleks, "Parting of the Ways" was the last time they met, as they wouldn't know about "The Stolen Earth".

It's semantics really, they both work for different reasons.

True. We could easily chalk up "the last time we met" as the Doctor purposefully being vague with the Daleks, making sure he doesn't give up any information, while he's trying to figure out where they came from.

 

[David cgc]

Well, he also credited himself with sending them into the Void, and that's the one group that they couldn't be part of, so he certainly wasn't being too coy about telling them things they didn't know.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

This group could have been stuck in traffic while the rest were sent back into the void.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Well, he also credited himself with sending them into the Void, and that's the one group that they couldn't be part of, so he certainly wasn't being too coy about telling them things they didn't know.

Did he? Ah well.