What will be the last sport to go co-ed?

[The Fatman]

Golf has allowed Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam to play with the boys, and NASCAR has always had a history of letting female racers in (although Danica Patrick of course has led to it being much more publicized recently). Of the remaining "Major" sports, which do you think will be the last to allow women to play in the men's league?

For the purpose of discussion, I would consider the following as "majors":
1) American Football
2) Basketball
3) Baseball
4) Hockey
5) Soccer (Football)

My opinion, is American Football. I say this even though I believe a woman could be very successful in many skill positions: Quarterback, kicker, punter... possibly even returning kicks or as WR/CB.

I would be shocked if the NBA didn't have a full time woman player in the next 10 years. David Stern has already pretty publicly said he'd like to do it.

Here in Buffalo, Hockey makes a compelling case for most popular sport... and some of the best puck handlers and finesse players I know are women. As the NHL moves away from old style goon-y hockey towards faster, international style play I think it's only natural that women will squeak in. If nothing else to boost ratings, which the NHL desperately needs.

Soccer and baseball I can't really speak intelligently on, as I'm not a fan... but they both strike me as sports that are much more dependent on skill, speed and endurance rather than strength and toughness.

Thoughts?

 

[SmoothieX]

I also agree that football will never integrate.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Soccer and baseball I can't really speak intelligently on, as I'm not a fan... but they both strike me as sports that are much more dependent on skill, speed and endurance rather than strength and toughness.

Women can be strong and tough. It's sexist to claim they can't.

 

[1001001]

Football will almost certainly never be integrated.

I would also throw boxing in there as well.

 

[The Fatman]

Soccer and baseball I can't really speak intelligently on, as I'm not a fan... but they both strike me as sports that are much more dependent on skill, speed and endurance rather than strength and toughness.

Women can be strong and tough. It's sexist to claim they can't.

I was afraid of this, and honestly, denigrating women was the exact opposite of the point of this thread.

I am willing to accept a label as a little sexist... but are you really claiming that there are women who are physically big and powerful enough to play on an NFL Offensive Line, for example (OK, maybe for the Buffalo Bills, but I digress...)? I didn't think it was in dispute that women are a shade physically smaller than men, I was under the impression that was accepted as biology.

To use a different sport as comparison, lets use powerlifting. That is of course based on 100% strength and size, and uses solid numbers to make comparing easy. If women were truly on the same playing field as men, you'd think the world records would be similar, correct? From Wikipedia:

Women's records (75KG+ weight class - the highest class for women):

Snatch 140.0 kg Jang Mi-Ran

South Korea (KOR) 2008 Beijing 2008-08-16
Clean and jerk 186.0 kg Jang Mi-Ran

South Korea (KOR) 2008 Beijing 2008-08-16
Total 326.0 kg Jang Mi-Ran

South Korea (KOR) 2008 Beijing 2008-08-16

Men's records (77KG weight class - considered a middleweight for men):

Snatch 172.5 kg Taner Sagir

Turkey (TUR) 2004 Athens 2004-08-19
Clean and jerk 207.5 kg Zhan Xugang

China (CHN) 2000 Sydney 2000-09-22
Total 375.0 kg Taner Sagir

Turkey (TUR) 2004 Athens 2004-08-19

That's a pretty statistically significant difference.

To clarify, however, my intent on this thread is that in basically every level than physical size and strength: skill, quickness, speed, intelligence, leadership... female athletes are on the same field as men, and deserve the opportunity to prove it professionally. I am just curious what everyone thinks will be the last sport to realize this, and why. If this makes me or my opinions sexist... so be it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I didn't think it was in dispute that women are a shade physically smaller than men, I was under the impression that was accepted as biology.

People come in all sizes. I've seen large women, and small men. I've seen women with more muscles than Arnold Schwarzenegger, and men who are skinny as a rail.

 

[The Fatman]

I didn't think it was in dispute that women are a shade physically smaller than men, I was under the impression that was accepted as biology.

People come in all sizes. I've seen large women, and small men. I've seen women with more muscles than Arnold Schwarzenegger, and men who are skinny as a rail.

I get the impression you're intentionally being obtuse. We're not talking about all shapes and sizes, we're talking about professional athletes, the very top end of the spectrum.

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

Golf has allowed Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam to play with the boys

Have they made a cut? Didn't Annika return to the ladies tour exclusively?

and NASCAR has always had a history of letting female racers in (although Danica Patrick of course has led to it being much more publicized recently).

Seems more like "stunt casting" and taking away attention from drivers that will have a good chance of winning.

Here in Buffalo, Hockey makes a compelling case for most popular sport... and some of the best puck handlers and finesse players I know are women.

I think there's a lot of male NHLers who'd have something to say about that.

As the NHL moves away from old style goon-y hockey towards faster, international style play I think it's only natural that women will squeak in. If nothing else to boost ratings, which the NHL desperately needs.

Manon Rheume has already suited up in an NHL exhibition game in 1992, in goal for the Lightning.

Even as the NHL moves from clutch and grab to skill, women can't be successful in the game because they can still get hit. Any contact of collision sport will never be integrated.

If the only reason the woman is on the team is as a bit or to draw fans and ratings, that's insulting to the ability of the woman as well.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

we're talking about professional athletes, the very top end of the spectrum.

There are large athletes and small ones. Some sports depend on size more than others. But others do not.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

Manon Rheume has already suited up in an NHL exhibition game in 1992, in goal for the Lightning.

It was a publicity stunt, but it wouldn't surprise me to eventually see it happen for real. A number of Women's Olympic goaltenders like to practice with the men's teams.

 

[RoJoHen]

We need a professional Powder Puff league!

 

[Starbreaker]

I know some of you aren't football fans and don't understand this.. but there's no way a woman could be a successful football player unless she was a kicker / punter. Having 500 pound guys coming at you full speed would probably kill most women.

 

[clint g]

I honestly don't think any of those sports will integrate. The ones with the closest chance are baseball and basketball but even then, those sports do rely on a large amount of strength and stamina. For the most part, your average male is going to be bigger and stronger than your average female.

 

[Trilliam]

I don't know why field hockey is still segregated past Boys U/17s. Girls from the girls' U/18 team often play in the boys' U/17 teams at our club if they boys' team are short a player. Same for U/15s, U/13s & U/11. The minkey (junior) teams are all mixed. WHen the boys used to play junior Australian Rules Football (Go the 'Pies), girls could play in combinved teams until they were 14 or 16. They played in the age grade below their age (ie 16yo girls couls play in the boys' 14 yo teams).

 

[Roger Wilco]

Football (soccer) will never let women play in men's teams on a professional level imo. I remember that one Serie A team (Perugia) once made headlines because its owner claimed he wants to sign a couple well-known female pros, but nothing ever came it, and imo it would have been ridiculous anyway. Women's football has improved a lot over the last decade, but it's simply a fact that women don't have even nearly the athletic strength of men and that's so crucial in this sport that even the best female player inevitably would be a weak link even in a mediocre team in a mediocre league. If it ever happens it would be just a publicity stunt.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

You think a woman will be playing in the NBA within 10 years? Have you seen the WNBA?

Golf and Auto Racing can be partially integrated because neither of those sports depend primarily on physical prowess. And even there it has been an abject failure. Michelle Wie's playing in the PGA was a marketing gimmick and it proved a disaster for her career. Ashley Judd publicly said that having female driver Milka Duno on the Indy circuit was a danger because she couldn't compete with the men.

Any sport which depends to a large measure on physicality women are at a severe disadvantage to men. Martina Navratilova was still a top competitive player and Jimmy Connors was no longer on the tour when they had an inter-gender match, and despite several rule changes in Martina's favor she still lost in straight sets to Jimmy. Both Martina and Chris Evert have said that any guy in the top 150 of the men's tour would beat them in their prime. Howard Stern sidekick Artie Lange a man who describes himself as "too fat to fish" almost beat a semi-pro women's basketball player who had been on an NCAA Final Four team.

I don't even want to think about combat sports.

 

[Nardpuncher]

Football (soccer) will never let women play in men's teams on a professional level imo. I remember that one Serie A team (Perugia) once made headlines because its owner claimed he wants to sign a couple well-known female pros, but nothing ever came it, and imo it would have been ridiculous anyway. Women's football has improved a lot over the last decade, but it's simply a fact that women don't have even nearly the athletic strength of men and that's so crucial in this sport that even the best female player inevitably would be a weak link even in a mediocre team in a mediocre league. If it ever happens it would be just a publicity stunt.

I disagree.
Many women have the athletic strength of a soccer player.

 

[Roger Wilco]

No they don't. Have you ever watched a women's soccer game?

 

[Defcon]

^ A few years ago there was a reality show here in Germany where they were following the struggles of a Kreisliga (9th tier of men's league soccer) team managed by Manfred Burgsmüller, a former Bundesliga player, and they had a 45 minute friendly game against a women team from the Bundesliga (top tier of women's league soccer). The Kreisliga team won 4:0.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Exactly. I even think any professional club's youth team of 15-year-old boys would beat even the best professional women's team. Not because they play better, but because they are stronger.