V: "Heretic's Fork" 4/27/10 - Grading & Discussion
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In my opinion, the problems with V, Heroes post season one, Flash Forward, Caprica are all about the same.
Let's face it they all want to emulate LOST but all the series lack what makes LOST so great. These shows lack a sense of urgency, compelling storylines that clearly convey to the audience that they are going somewhere and somewhere interesting, a good pace, imagination, good *consistent* writing, a well thought out intriguing mythology, interesting adversaries with many layers to peel away and learn about i.e. the Dominion/Others, the characters aren't interesting. These shows fail to involve the audience in what is occurring onscsreen and fail to excite them for the next installment.
I haven't felt the slightest desire to really dissect an episode of any of these shows the way I do after watching a really good episode of LOST. I mean I can muster enough interest to watch an episode of V or FF but not to really look any deeper than a very cursory first viewing simply because subconsciously I know the writers haven't really gone that extra mile.
I just read an interview with the new V showrunner Scott Rosenbaum and he talks of a lot of OMG didn't see that coming moments in these last few episodes and interesting reveals but I personally haven't seen that. It is simply boring. The situations the characters find themselves in are underwhelming--on V the resistance just lethargically stumbles from one thing to the next. It feels so random instead of coming across as an organic development.
You can do a slow burn but the set-up needs to be interesting and pique one's curiosity sufficiently that they feel they aren't wasting their time.
Let's face it they all want to emulate LOST but all the series lack what makes LOST so great. These shows lack a sense of urgency, compelling storylines that clearly convey to the audience that they are going somewhere and somewhere interesting, a good pace, imagination, good *consistent* writing, a well thought out intriguing mythology, interesting adversaries with many layers to peel away and learn about i.e. the Dominion/Others, the characters aren't interesting. These shows fail to involve the audience in what is occurring onscsreen and fail to excite them for the next installment.
I haven't felt the slightest desire to really dissect an episode of any of these shows the way I do after watching a really good episode of LOST. I mean I can muster enough interest to watch an episode of V or FF but not to really look any deeper than a very cursory first viewing simply because subconsciously I know the writers haven't really gone that extra mile.
I just read an interview with the new V showrunner Scott Rosenbaum and he talks of a lot of OMG didn't see that coming moments in these last few episodes and interesting reveals but I personally haven't seen that. It is simply boring. The situations the characters find themselves in are underwhelming--on V the resistance just lethargically stumbles from one thing to the next. It feels so random instead of coming across as an organic development.
You can do a slow burn but the set-up needs to be interesting and pique one's curiosity sufficiently that they feel they aren't wasting their time.
The reviewer is quite wrong in claiming that BattleStar Galactica actually got away with torture porn. Or was ever good for that matter. BSG's torture porn episode involved the bland assumption that a Cylon could pull a nuke out of his right hip pocket and no on even needed to ask where he got one. The new BSG was just as dumbfuck as the new V.
Oh, my bad. It's actually the other way round!
Back in the minds of the people who make V, there may be lurid fantasies of Tea Partyers taking up arms against the evil Socialists. The stuff about alien invader lizards wrapped in monkey hides is no more relevant to the actual story than the annihilation of the vast majority of humanity was to BattleStar Galactica. The Fifth Column, fascist sympathizers as they are (I'm beginning to wonder if the name isn't a code?) don't need an answer to the question, what bad things have the Vs done, because the show's heroes are the Tea Party fringe, who don't need evidence or reason or piddly stuff like that to hate Obama et al.
Need I say it? Poor.
And I'm through with this shit.
Oh, my bad. It's actually the other way round!
Back in the minds of the people who make V, there may be lurid fantasies of Tea Partyers taking up arms against the evil Socialists. The stuff about alien invader lizards wrapped in monkey hides is no more relevant to the actual story than the annihilation of the vast majority of humanity was to BattleStar Galactica. The Fifth Column, fascist sympathizers as they are (I'm beginning to wonder if the name isn't a code?) don't need an answer to the question, what bad things have the Vs done, because the show's heroes are the Tea Party fringe, who don't need evidence or reason or piddly stuff like that to hate Obama et al.
Need I say it? Poor.
And I'm through with this shit.
I think this episode and this entire show is "average". I do love Morena Baccarin an the way she plays the Queen.
Here's what I would do to improve the show:
Have the hybrid born and kidnapped by the Vs.
Kill all resistance characters.
Focus entirely on the Vs as they systematically overtake Earth.
I would find the show more entertaining if it entirely focused on the Vs and how they achieve their goals.
Here's what I would do to improve the show:
Have the hybrid born and kidnapped by the Vs.
Kill all resistance characters.
Focus entirely on the Vs as they systematically overtake Earth.
I would find the show more entertaining if it entirely focused on the Vs and how they achieve their goals.
Agreed--her performance is the only compelling thing at times the show has. She was perfectly cast in the role not just because of her gestures, her mannerisms, her delivery--the entire way she carries herself but also she definitely has a very exotic look even moreso with her short haircut that gives a pitch perfect alien vibe to her character.
I saw a hint of doubt in Anna’s eye when Lisa said Tyler wasn’t coming aboard
Tyler’s mom was sure chugging on that drink.
oh I googled a "Heretic's Fork", thinking it was a made up item for the show. wow what a nasty torture device..
Oh and on the Canadian feed they show a promo for the showing of the Original V to come in the summer....
Tyler’s mom was sure chugging on that drink.
oh I googled a "Heretic's Fork", thinking it was a made up item for the show. wow what a nasty torture device..
Oh and on the Canadian feed they show a promo for the showing of the Original V to come in the summer....
I can actually see where they're trying to go with the "terrorism" angle in this day and age versus the original "Nazi occupation" allegory of the original series, but they're just not doing a very good job of it. I think there would've been some fertile ground though for taking on political correctness though and walking on eggshells when it comes to Visitors as a different angle on the original series -- the fallout for saying something negative about them, losing your job because you made a derogatory comment, maybe them getting something over a human because of preferential treatment, etc. -- but they'd just screw that one up too.
Good article. I agree with the author.
I think the real question here is "What is Anna's end game?" Why is she working so hard to make the people of Earth like the V's, why the PR game? Is it just to stay? Is it to make humans food? What do we have that they really need?
Above Average...barely
I don't disagree with others that the green screen material is still lakcing. I don't disagree with another poster who thinks Erica gets a big FAIL on showing Tyler what his girlfriend is up to and/or looks like. Perhaps they could do better to build where they are taking the story but I do feel a building tension towards revelation of something.
I like Jack and what he brings to the group. Hobbs I also like, together he and Jack(at least this episode) seemed the bad cop/good cop. I'm walking a line with Ryan, if he turns out to be John May somehow as suggested last week then I really like him.
Still considering its flaws I'd rather watch V than Idol, Dancing, Bachelor or the other reality dreck on tv.
Your own personal political opinions aside the viewer knows the answer to the question 'what bad things have the Vs done' as our resistence group has uncovered them.
-Planted operatives among agencies throughout the world to ensure positive ends for the Vs when they arrive
-Laced the flu shot with an additive that has transformative properties without informing the populace they've done this.
-Placed trackers within people when they've come into the 'healing centers' for treatment.
That at minimum is the start to the answer. The problem is our resistence is leary to reveal too much due to trust issues, don't know who is V or V sympathizer. You don't see that?
I don't disagree with others that the green screen material is still lakcing. I don't disagree with another poster who thinks Erica gets a big FAIL on showing Tyler what his girlfriend is up to and/or looks like. Perhaps they could do better to build where they are taking the story but I do feel a building tension towards revelation of something.
I like Jack and what he brings to the group. Hobbs I also like, together he and Jack(at least this episode) seemed the bad cop/good cop. I'm walking a line with Ryan, if he turns out to be John May somehow as suggested last week then I really like him.
Still considering its flaws I'd rather watch V than Idol, Dancing, Bachelor or the other reality dreck on tv.
Your own personal political opinions aside the viewer knows the answer to the question 'what bad things have the Vs done' as our resistence group has uncovered them.
-Planted operatives among agencies throughout the world to ensure positive ends for the Vs when they arrive
-Laced the flu shot with an additive that has transformative properties without informing the populace they've done this.
-Placed trackers within people when they've come into the 'healing centers' for treatment.
That at minimum is the start to the answer. The problem is our resistence is leary to reveal too much due to trust issues, don't know who is V or V sympathizer. You don't see that?
do most of the people actually think the aliens look human?
Apparently. And speak English too! And have no name other than Visitors! And have human names!
Why has nobody asked Anna to provide a historical record for her civilization? Or anything about their political structures...? And why hasn't the "resistance" asked their resident V anything about his society? This seems like vital information when interacting with a massive new political player or invasion force.
Or the much more basic question - what do the Vs want? Yeah, we get - they are up to something, they are evil space lizards who invaded the Earth while disguising as a peaceful visitors, but what is their ultimate goal? Judging by what was told in 9 episodes that were aired so far, none of the human resistance members know the answer to that basic question. If they want to conquer Earth - why not just do it by military means, it's obvious they can do it in about couple of days at most.
It looks like they want to enslave the humans for some reason, but probably think that it's better if the humans would serve them voluntarily, hence all the healing and the charity.
Of course, V's main problem is that it is clichéd and unoriginal. It's "evil aliens pose as good aliens who want to help Earth" (original V, Earth: Final Conflict) combined with "alien imposters have iniltrated every level of our society and up to no good" (The X-Files, or even The Invaders from the 60s).
Then we have the obligatory tough guy who dwells in an area of moral grey (Kyle Hobbes), the seemingly unbeatable badass super-soldiers, and the alien princess who is perhaps about to betray her race because she's fallen in love with the cute human boy. There's a constant feeling that we have all seen this before somewhere. I wonder what goes on in nuV's writing room: "So guys, what are we gonna rip off next?"
So far, I'm still mildly entertained by nuV, but I don't expect the show to go anywhere. I wouldn't miss much if V were gone. And I guess that's another of the show's problems.
Then we have the obligatory tough guy who dwells in an area of moral grey (Kyle Hobbes), the seemingly unbeatable badass super-soldiers, and the alien princess who is perhaps about to betray her race because she's fallen in love with the cute human boy. There's a constant feeling that we have all seen this before somewhere. I wonder what goes on in nuV's writing room: "So guys, what are we gonna rip off next?"
So far, I'm still mildly entertained by nuV, but I don't expect the show to go anywhere. I wouldn't miss much if V were gone. And I guess that's another of the show's problems.
More Morena. Less mystery and more V story. Emo kid death.
What are the 3 things that would improve V's ratings immediately?
I'm giving this an Excellent because I have a feeling that it's about as good an episode as we can expect from this show. And since Happy Town crashed on take-off, it's all the more likely we will have V to kick around next season. Might as well settle in.
Oh and I figured out what's wrong with Tyler. The actor playing him is creepy. The V's need to v-ize him and turn him into a freak-ass villain.
V - Stupidly obvious, plain vanilla approach. No sense of mystery, personality, drama or style.
Heroes after S1 - They're tried every type of bad writing in the book - inconsistent characters, incoherent/inconclusive plotlines, no sense of pacing, characters being stupid for the convenience of the plot, characters who don't learn anything ever, characters hanging around who needed to be killed off two seasons back, no point to anything.
Flash Forward - Premise is not workable the way they're doing it; maybe not workable at all. Most of the characters are boring.
Caprica - Solid premise and characters, and real sci fi for a change rather than an action show with sci fi window dressing. They're just taking their sweet time getting to the point. If you're willing to suffer through the filler, there's an excellent show trying to emerge.
Interesting io9 article, but who wants to see a show about duelling PR campaigns instead of shit getting blowed up real good? Sure it could be done, but it would be "boring" like Caprica with a lot of talking and not nearly enough gunplay for a network audience. And...
Oh and I figured out what's wrong with Tyler. The actor playing him is creepy. The V's need to v-ize him and turn him into a freak-ass villain.
But if the V's were salvaging people's lives and families, there would be a whole lot of humans who would reject that "typo" as "mindless anti-V bigotry." Now that would be an interesting tactic for the V's to use to strike back with, but now I'm describing a more interesting show...
No, they're all distinct:
V - Stupidly obvious, plain vanilla approach. No sense of mystery, personality, drama or style.
Heroes after S1 - They're tried every type of bad writing in the book - inconsistent characters, incoherent/inconclusive plotlines, no sense of pacing, characters being stupid for the convenience of the plot, characters who don't learn anything ever, characters hanging around who needed to be killed off two seasons back, no point to anything.
Flash Forward - Premise is not workable the way they're doing it; maybe not workable at all. Most of the characters are boring.
Caprica - Solid premise and characters, and real sci fi for a change rather than an action show with sci fi window dressing. They're just taking their sweet time getting to the point. If you're willing to suffer through the filler, there's an excellent show trying to emerge.
Interesting io9 article, but who wants to see a show about duelling PR campaigns instead of shit getting blowed up real good? Sure it could be done, but it would be "boring" like Caprica with a lot of talking and not nearly enough gunplay for a network audience. And...
The V's have an insurmountable advantage in the PR war, namely - they have more to offer people in an immediate way than the Fifth Column ever could. Even if humans knew the V's were eeevil, would they really turn up their noses at miracle cures? More likely, they'd decide not to believe anyone who said the V's were up to no good and would instead latch onto Anna's counterargument that Erica and the Fifth Column are just hateful mindless bigots. People believe whatever they need to believe and make up rationales for it afterwards. The truth, evidence, and stuff like that? Pffft! Since when does that count. Just look around you at the world today for proof of how little anyone cares about the truth.
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Checkmate
Commodore
...which doesn't make any sense in the context of the episode. It's a torture device used to force people to stay awake for days if not weeks at a time in order to wear them down. Not some insta-torture device.