5x04 The Time of Angels (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[Cutter John]

Awww whats wrong with River's morals.

And the Doc married, bonked, then ran out on the queen of england with nary a thought. So he's one to talk.

And we still don't know for sure that they're a couple.

 

[Thestral]

Absolutely brilliant, loved it. Weeping Angels are far scarier than Daleks, and IMO the best villain of the show. I still don't care much for River Song, and I'll be interested to see what the story here is that she's not telling the Doctor everything. Matt and Karen were both fantastic - Karen especially, as usual. While most of the episode wasn't trying to be "Blink" levels of paranoia-inducing, the scene of Amy trapped with the Angel projection was wonderful.

Overall, this Angel just feels far more dangerous and especially malevolent. The scavengers from Blink were bad enough, but they didn't take delight in tormenting Sally the way this Angel seems to delight in tormenting the Doctor.

Spoiler: Theory

- I'm wondering if maybe there's a dramatic misunderstanding going on here about the other Angels and their intentions. Some of them looked far more supplicant than threatening, and I'm wondering if they might not all be victims themselves trying to get help? It's telling I think that not only did the other Angels not kill anybody, but the winged Weeping Angel specifically lured Sacred Bob away from those others.

 

[Sci]

^
Me neither. Urinating all over continuity for a joke that's not funny.

I'd hardly call a minor retcon that only implies that the Master and some other obscure Time Lord character (whom only the most dedicated of TOS fans have even heard of) have trouble driving their TARDISes properly as well constitutes "urinating all over continuity."

As for me...

You know, I feel like Smith's been off somehow these last two episodes. His Doctor, in "Victory of the Daleks" and now "The Time of Angels," just doesn't seem to have that sort of commanding presence that he had in "The Eleventh Hour" and "The Beast Below," or that Tennant and Eccleston had from beginning to end. I wonder how much of that is a function of this being his first episode shot, though -- but I agree he's being upstaged by Alex Kingston. Which, in a way, is to be expected -- younger actors are almost always upstaged when they're placed next to older, more experienced actors.

As for River...

You know, I was re-watching "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead," and it occurred to me how much of that story was about lost potential and lost love. When the Doctor and River just devolved into arguing and the other fellow accused them of just bickering like an old married couple, I completely believed that they were, even if the Doctor didn't experience it yet, a couple-slash-couple-to-be.

Smith's Doctor doesn't quite give me that impression yet the way Tennant's did. I hope he's able to bring out that hidden affection that Tennant's Doctor developed for River in the course of "Silence/Forest," because otherwise an important component of the characters' relationship seems like it's missing.

And Karen Gillan continues to steal every scene she's in.

 

[Venardhi]

At the very least I'd expect him to offer a little more warmth to her than he did here. I loved this episode but his treatment of her is like their previous (his timeline) interactions never happened. Imagine how hard it must be for her to have a relationship with a man who is actually several men and at least occasionally doesn't even like her when they do meet up. This seems quite a bit earlier in her own time-line too, but I'd like to have at least some inkling that she doesn't see it all as a game.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Now that was much more satisfying, it felt like a "real" Who episode.

The pacing was great, I didn't once think that it was dragging. Like the good episodes from previous seasons, I was just sucked in and didn't think "will this be over soon" or "I'm not sure what odd twist they'll use to fill the time here".

What you might call the internal consistency of the episode was spot on too. What happened didn't feel like the writer was stuck in a corner and had to through in random ideas left right and centre.

I'm not sure why, but I thought the return of the Angels would bode poorly for a story, clearly wrong! Was Amy trying to blink with alternate eyes when faced with the Angel? I wondered if Moffat had some sort of fan feedback that he picked up on. He did so before IIRC.

 

[Starkers]

At the very least I'd expect him to offer a little more warmth to her than he did here. I loved this episode but his treatment of her is like their previous (his timeline) interactions never happened. Imagine how hard it must be for her to have a relationship with a man who is actually several men and at least occasionally doesn't even like her when they do meet up. This seems quite a bit earlier in her own time-line too, but I'd like to have at least some inkling that she doesn't see it all as a game.

Well it must be hard for him, here's a woman he clearly has feelings for (or at least thinks he does/will) and the first time he met her she died! That's going to mess with your head somewhat, and I think that shows through in his reactions to her. I also wonder if he isn't wary about the whole situation as well. How would any of us react if told we're going to fall madly in love with someone we just met? Now obviously the Doctor has more of an understanding of timy wimy than we do, but again it must bug him, especially him, not to be the most knowledgable person in the room.

 

[David_Leese]

So the Angels kill the old fashioned way now as well as send people back in time? Seems to be what they did to the three soldiers. Although it would've been interesting if they encountered say, the skeletons of the soldiers who were time-displaced or something. Then again that might've been too "Silence in the library".

That was my first thought when the Doctor and River realised that something was wrong - I thought the statues were the bodies of the 'dead' soldiers, and the other statues were other people that the Angel had killed... I was trying to recognise the soldiers' faces in the faces of the statues (but not for very long!).

And yes, I will be complaining to the BBC about the Norton advert, because I did see it, and I was completely unimpressed. It seems that soon, the only way to get a completely 'clean' recording of a DW episode will be to buy the BBC DVD.

 

[David_Leese]

The BBC has issued an apology about the Norton advert:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8642854.stm

...and even mentioned the time when Norton messed up "Rose".

 

[Mr Awe]

Fantastic! Really good stuff! Characterization strong. Plot great. Creepy atmosphere! Perfection! Of course, a lot is riding on the resolution. If I had to find one complaint, I wish the episode lenght was greater than 42 minutes. Yeah, I know part 2 is coming.

River being the Doctor's wife now seems like the too obvious explanation. Wonder who she really is? It's possible that she really doesn't know the Doctor well at all, maybe she somehow got her hands on *his* diary? Then makes it seem like she's close to him at some point? I suspect we won't find out for quite awhile, not in part 2.

Mr Awe

 

[Samurai8472]

An image of an angel becomes an angel


BLINK

We could say that the Blink angels were weak and didn't have enough power.

 

[Jax]

We could say that the Blink angels were weak and didn't have enough power.

I assumed the Angel in the picture must be the one to reach out or if any nearby angel can do it then the ones on Earth were too weak or too far way or didn't even notice they were being seen through a picture.

 

[The Sonic Mole]

Absolutely superb episode and a great return to form after the disappointment of the Dalek story...

 

[Tom]

Another possible issue. In Blink the angels are stopped because they are tricked into looking at each other, making them stay statue. In this episode toward the end we see the statues in an almost single file line as they get closer to the group, would not most of these statues stop because the other statues (the one lined up in the back, look at the ones ahead of them.) are looking at them? Minor, but still.

 

[Tom]

An image of an angel becomes an angel


BLINK

We could say that the Blink angels were weak and didn't have enough power.

Thanks a fucking lot!! Now I have an Angel come out of my monitor trying to get me!!!!! Power of the Internet! now you multiplied them by posting there image!

 

[Jax]

Another possible issue. In Blink the angels are stopped because they are tricked into looking at each other, making them stay statue. In this episode toward the end we see the statues in an almost single file line as they get closer to the group, would not most of these statues stop because the other statues (the one lined up in the back, look at the ones ahead of them.) are looking at them? Minor, but still.

maybe because they are killing people not sending them back in time due to lack of power they have means they can afford to look at each other.

 

[Thestral]

Another possible issue. In Blink the angels are stopped because they are tricked into looking at each other, making them stay statue. In this episode toward the end we see the statues in an almost single file line as they get closer to the group, would not most of these statues stop because the other statues (the one lined up in the back, look at the ones ahead of them.) are looking at them? Minor, but still.

I think this has to do with the nature of the statues. I'm not convinced that the Doctor and co. are right that they're Angels - or at least not the same sort of Angels as the one from the Byzantium. I think that's why the Angel kept luring its victims away from the other statues.

Whatever's happening to Amy is linked to those statues. Is she turning into an Angel? Is there an Angel growing inside of her? The other book said "Whatever captures the image of an Angel becomes itself an Angel" - and eyes capture images. The Doctor also said the eyes aren't the windows to the soul, they're doors.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

An image of an angel becomes an angel


BLINK

We could say that the Blink angels were weak and didn't have enough power.

...or this could be the ordinary inanimate kind. It has been some time since i saw the episode, did Sally take photos of the angels in the beginning? If not, she probably had no access to one with the hands in front of his eyes afterwards.

...one the other hand, if she did, the Doctor need to pay her a visit soon

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I voted "Good" - I enjoyed this a lot. And I adore Alex Kingston and her performance here. She should be the Doctor.

 

[Bacl]

...one the other hand, if she did, the Doctor need to pay her a visit soon

No he doesn't. She gave the packet to him, including the photo of the angel.

How do you think he got "touched by an angel" and sent back to 1979?

 

[Bacl]

By the way, did anyone see the crack anywhere in this episode?

Seeing as it is going to be so prominent in next week's episode, I would be surprised if you wasn't anywhere in the background this week.