Rise Like Lions - A Mirror Universe saga
- Thread starter DarkHorizon
- Start date
Yay! awesome news. I've been hoping you'd get to write another Mirror Universe novel to wrap up your storyline from your previous MU novel.We got alot of new books to look forward to getting in the next few months.
Whoo! Looking forward to this. Even if I did push the Sorrows of Empire back a bit to read another series I'd been wanting to read first.
The inspiration for Mirror Spock and his Memory Omega plan was inspired much more directly by the character of Hari Seldon in Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series.Hey--BTW...the more I read of Mirror Spock having a coldly logical plan to bring about the destruction of the Terran Empire...for the greater good...the more I'm somehow reminded of Atlas Shrugged, and the mysterious-yet-coldly-logical plan concieved by John Galt--a plan of total destruction of the old system.
"Who is Emperor Spock?", to coin a phrase. He's stopping the motor of the Empire....
Was that intentional, Mr. Mack, or pure coincindence?
Ah. Okay!
Ah...if you started with Atlas, I don't blame you. Great story, but you just know it's the first draft, and she didn't really want to revise that thick, hulking monster.
(Well, hey, look at Moby Dick--great story, structural mess.)(BTW...the society depicted in her novel Anthem is disturbingly Borg-like--right down to the use of "We" in place of "I". Hmm...I wonder if Gene had a past connection to Objectivism....)
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The inspiration for Mirror Spock and his Memory Omega plan was inspired much more directly by the character of Hari Seldon in Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series. I've never read any Ayn Rand (I tried once and found her prose style abominable).Hey--BTW...the more I read of Mirror Spock having a coldly logical plan to bring about the destruction of the Terran Empire...for the greater good...the more I'm somehow reminded of Atlas Shrugged, and the mysterious-yet-coldly-logical plan concieved by John Galt--a plan of total destruction of the old system.
"Who is Emperor Spock?", to coin a phrase. He's stopping the motor of the Empire....
Was that intentional, Mr. Mack, or pure coincindence?
Ha cool!
Just reading the earlier posts on this thread (and not having read Sorrows of Empire yet), my first thought was "hmmm, that sounds a bit like Asimov's Foundation."
And here I see that it is. So, I wasn't too interested in this book before, but knowing where Spock's going with this and that there's a sequel coming, I'll have to get it now. Asimov is one of my all-time favorite sci-fi writers, mostly because of Foundation, so that sounds like a great concept.
I like the idea that Mirror Spock knew what he was doing.
One thing I didn't like about the DS9 take on the MU is that its basically yet another variation of "look how Kirk's flaunting of the prime directive screwed things up." (Peter David likes to play this card a lot, so to speak.)
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DorkBoy [TM];4018685 said:
I think it was more about the doctrine of unintended consequences -- because the Prime Directive wasn't really an issue in "Mirror, Mirror." All Kirk did was have a couple of conversations with a couple of people. What they did after that was their own choice.
And really, the bottom line is, stories are about things going wrong, not things going right. Pretty much every "Mirror, Mirror" sequel has been about the failure of Kirk's idea of reform. In Mike Barr's Mirror Universe Saga, Mirror Spock "considered it" and decided not to try to buck the system after all. In Diane Duane's Dark Mirror, Spock did pursue a reformist path and gained some serious ground, but then pushed too far and was assassinated, so the Empire lived on. The approach they took on the show was just a cleverer, less obvious way for things to go wrong -- Spock succeeds, the Empire dies, but another tyranny takes its place.
Atlas is a first draft, but not because she didn't want to revise it because it was a "hulking monster." After The Fountainhead, she felt that she didn't need editing anymore. She felt she was better than that. The point where a writer feels they've outgrown an editor is point where a writer most needs an editor.Ah...if you started with Atlas, I don't blame you. Great story, but you just know it's the first draft, and she didn't really want to revise that thick, hulking monster.
Yeah, in college, when I told my American Lit professor that "Melville needed an editor," he didn't take kindly to that.
It's fine that the middle parts of the book work symbolically, but they first have to work as a story. Which they don't.
You'd be better off looking at Hurley and Piller; Roddenberry wasn't involved with the Borg except at a distance.
Atlas is a first draft, but not because she didn't want to revise it because it was a "hulking monster." After The Fountainhead, she felt that she didn't need editing anymore. She felt she was better than that. The point where a writer feels they've outgrown an editor is point where a writer most needs an editor.Ah...if you started with Atlas, I don't blame you. Great story, but you just know it's the first draft, and she didn't really want to revise that thick, hulking monster.
Noted. It's ironic--she re-edited We The Living and Anthem like mad--"for purposes of brevity and clarity". And those books are all the better for it. And Fountainhead, frankly, is a darn good read--and she edited it quite a bit, too, as her notes indicate. (It's funny--many times, the wit of that novel reminds me a bit of Peter David!)
With Atlas, for one thing, many times the characters give speeches to each other. Sometimes it works--when one character is actually supposed to be educating another on a subject--but other times, it's pretty cringeworthy, particularly when it's supposed to be a warm, personal, romantic scene.
Well, hey--Shakespere got away with it, so I guess Rand thought she could, too....
(But then, way back when, "romantic" soliloquies were considered dramatically effective.)
Yeah, in college, when I told my American Lit professor that "Melville needed an editor," he didn't take kindly to that.
It's fine that the middle parts of the book work symbolically, but they first have to work as a story. Which they don't.
It isn't just the middle--although the "education" chapters don't exactly help.
When you think of it, the opening chapters of Moby seem to imply it's a character work on Ishmael and his newfound friend, and their adventures in whaling. Good reading--except the focus suddenly changes to Ahab and his quest for revenge, and Ishmael only shows up every once in a while, as if Melville's basically forgotten about all the buildup in the very beginning.
BTW...the middle has a great deal of incidents, again, which have nothing to do with Ahab's quest, either. Sometimes, there's some connection, but by and large, it's mostly filler.
Say what you will about Atlas, but at least Rand had already had a basic idea of the story's direction before she started writing....
Hmm...point taken.
Congratulations, that must be quite a relaxation for you after all this editorial chaos.
Is it realistic to expect the novel in 2011 is it more likely a 2012-release?
I think it's going to be a late-2011 title, but I'm not 100-percent certain of that. A lot will depend on whether I finish the manuscript on time, etc.
Well, we all have the upmost confidence in you
BTW, I'm currently about 280 pages in "The Sorrows of Empire", a great one once again. I'm really looking foward to your next books.
^ Thanks very much. Kind of you to say.
The inspiration for Mirror Spock and his Memory Omega plan was inspired much more directly by the character of Hari Seldon in Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series. I've never read any Ayn Rand (I tried once and found her prose style abominable).Hey--BTW...the more I read of Mirror Spock having a coldly logical plan to bring about the destruction of the Terran Empire...for the greater good...the more I'm somehow reminded of Atlas Shrugged, and the mysterious-yet-coldly-logical plan concieved by John Galt--a plan of total destruction of the old system.
"Who is Emperor Spock?", to coin a phrase. He's stopping the motor of the Empire....
Was that intentional, Mr. Mack, or pure coincindence?
Dave, you're a much better writer than Ayn Rand.
But that's not really saying much.
The inspiration for Mirror Spock and his Memory Omega plan was inspired much more directly by the character of Hari Seldon in Isaac Asimov's Foundation Series. I've never read any Ayn Rand (I tried once and found her prose style abominable).Hey--BTW...the more I read of Mirror Spock having a coldly logical plan to bring about the destruction of the Terran Empire...for the greater good...the more I'm somehow reminded of Atlas Shrugged, and the mysterious-yet-coldly-logical plan concieved by John Galt--a plan of total destruction of the old system.
"Who is Emperor Spock?", to coin a phrase. He's stopping the motor of the Empire....
Was that intentional, Mr. Mack, or pure coincindence?
Dave, you're a much better writer than Ayn Rand.
But that's not really saying much.
It's saying a lot more than you'd think.
One small bit of news...
David spoke at FedCon this weekend, and he told us that there is going to be a kind of Donald Duck/Gladstone Gander thing in Rise Like Lions. Smiley O'Brien and his crew are going to be the unluckiest crew ever, encountering one catastrophe after another, while for Mirror Calhoun & Co. everything that can go right will do so absolutely perfectly.
Sounds pretty cool and I have to say I'm pretty happy to read that...
Calhoun and company will be returning.
Really looking forward to this book. Lots of possibilities... (and just speculating here) More Mirror-Borg? Mirror-Caeliar? Mirror-Dominion? Mack finally getting to blow up a planet Earth?
Plus could Mack's "TNG-ish" trilogy for 2012 have a Mirror Universe component?
Plus could Mack's "TNG-ish" trilogy for 2012 have a Mirror Universe component?