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Star Wars: Now More Harm than Good?

Gaith

Vice Admiral
Admiral
PLEASE NOTE: My following argument very little to do with the quality of the dialog, performances or pace/etc. of the PT and other recent SW, though it does touch on its thematics. So please, let's not turn this thread into another "were the prequels any good" thread, as we already have at least one on the top page at this very moment. This is, rather, a more philosophical than fan service sort of piece, with all due respect to the latter. Thanks! :)


Back when Obi-Wan said that Darth Vader had become "more machine than man" in 1977, he hadn't meant it as a compliment; rather the reverse. And yet now the bulk of the Star Wars franchise's new product is composed of machine-based games and a cartoon series, made almost entirely by machines, which just happens to feature more robotic characters, and in roles of greater prominence, than ever before. Meanwhile, while novels and (computer-assisted) comics continue to be released, the PT-era text-based canon is being run roughshod over by the ongoing Clone Wars series. It's difficult, therefore, to escape the question of whether the franchise itself is "more machine than man." And: is it doing any good, or has it become a net harm? And is there any natural/thematic endpoint to the franchise?

Let's take the last question first. Lucas likes to say that the movies are the story of Anakin's fall and redemption, and even allowing for all his inconsistencies over the years, this is a relatively coherent statement even within the context of the pre-SE OT. And while the PT fleshed out the universe, Anakin and his story was more or less at the center of it all, especially if Sidious is indeed his father/producer. But the EU, as I understand it, has now gone generations beyond Anakin's era, as well as thousands of years before. As I noted in a somewhat similar Trek-related thread, Trek's thematic raison d'etre is generally agreed to be humanism. If Anakin continues to be marginalized throughout the EU (not to mention a post-ROTJ cartoon show, nor rumored a live-action show which never features him), does Star Wars have a similar philosophical core? Does it need, or should it have one, or will fans be content to spin tales of lightsaber battles outwardly forever?

On to the question of whether the franchise is doing harm. Some will no doubt accuse me of taking it all much too seriously by even posing the question, but I think it's one worth asking. While there have been legitimate questions raised about the violent content of the Clone Wars series, an occasional cartoon episode seems fairly benign; I'm here thinking more of the machine-centric SW video games. And I'm going to assume that, while a certain, moderate amount of gaming can also be benign, it's usually harmful to some degree, and pretty much never a source of societal good. Spending hours on end zapping Trade Federation droids or going on MMORPG hunts isn't likely to ever help anyone, besides the paychecks of those pushing the product.

Of course, that argument doesn't just go for SW games. The first Matrix movie celebrated humans unplugging from machines, but the third film suggested, Brave New World-style, that an enlightened digital regime might be best for the ignorant, enslaved masses, and sometime between those two productions the Wachowskis realized that they could make large sums of money by urging humans to plug into machines. One further wonders what Tolkien would have thought of LotR games, and some of us may wish that Rowling had insisted upon a no-video games clause in her extremely lucrative WB film contract. Perhaps even more dispiriting were the marketing tie-in games to Philip Pullman's The Golden Compass, as the third book in that series presents a very strong and explicit argument for living one's own life to the fullest, and it's hard to see where guiding a sprite version of Lyra around a digital maze fits into such a scheme. So if Star Wars isn't a blameless mulitmedia franchise, it's certainly not the only one.

Still, there was a time when Star Wars' heroes extolled wonder and awe at the natural order of the universe, urged the unplugging from such machines as guided-missile viewers, and when Lucas saw fit to end his technologically-infused and mechanically innovative franchise with a firelit dance in a massive, unspoilt forest. Now we get Jedi skyscrapers with no plants in sight, endless parades of minor variations upon the same old starship models for us to pilot and blow up while staring at their computer screens, and a digital MMORPG set thousands of years before Anakin was a twinkle in Palps' eye.

So, to conclude: all bitching about the acting and Jar-Jar appearances in the PT aside, has the franchise's magic run out?
 
I think redlettermedia covered this pretty well. It kind of became dull when they forgot that the franchise was a swashbuckling adventure meant to recall old matinee serials. And while the franchise never followed closely the rules of silence, they forgot when objects on the screen no longer had any weight, presence or respect at all for the laws of physics. They forgot when it seemed that the only way to have an action scene is to have one or more lightsabers flasing all the time. They forgot when space battles seemed to make no sense. They forgot when stilted dialogue replaced real emotion, and they forgot when we had to be told that people were friends (or enemies or whatever) rather than being shown this.

I was (and still am) looking forward to a live action STar Wars series with a more serious tone, and more reserved useage of special effects, but my optimism was dwindeled upon hearing of a new SW comedy show. You can milk these things too much so that they loose what made them charming originally. I'm a huge fan of the Transformers franchise and the smae thing is happening on that front as well.
 
Let's take the last question first. Lucas likes to say that the movies are the story of Anakin's fall and redemption, and even allowing for all his inconsistencies over the years, this is a relatively coherent statement even within the context of the pre-SE OT.

Huh? Darth Vader is a character who in the first film is a henchman of the week, he has seven minutes of screen time and actually has "Darth" as a first name! Anakin or father Skywalker is a completely different character at this point, he's not Lord Darth Vader. Now while taken within the context of the overall thing, you can see how it's retro-fitted, when Lucas makes the leap and joins the two characters together in the second film, but there is no 'philosophical core' regarding Anakin Skywalker as it relates to the original Star Wars as a film in it's own right.
 
^^ Please note that I said "even within the context of the pre-SE OT", not "even within the context of the first film." ;)
 
On to the question of whether the franchise is doing harm. Some will no doubt accuse me of taking it all much too seriously by even posing the question, but I think it's one worth asking. While there have been legitimate questions raised about the violent content of the Clone Wars series, an occasional cartoon episode seems fairly benign; I'm here thinking more of the machine-centric SW video games. And I'm going to assume that, while a certain, moderate amount of gaming can also be benign, it's usually harmful to some degree, and pretty much never a source of societal good. Spending hours on end zapping Trade Federation droids or going on MMORPG hunts isn't likely to ever help anyone, besides the paychecks of those pushing the product.

Yes, and "Avatar" is the work of the Devil! :rolleyes:

It's just FICTION!!!
 
On to the question of whether the franchise is doing harm. Some will no doubt accuse me of taking it all much too seriously by even posing the question, but I think it's one worth asking. While there have been legitimate questions raised about the violent content of the Clone Wars series, an occasional cartoon episode seems fairly benign; I'm here thinking more of the machine-centric SW video games. And I'm going to assume that, while a certain, moderate amount of gaming can also be benign, it's usually harmful to some degree, and pretty much never a source of societal good. Spending hours on end zapping Trade Federation droids or going on MMORPG hunts isn't likely to ever help anyone, besides the paychecks of those pushing the product.

Uh-huh. 'Cause sitting and watching a screen, or actors on a stage, or reading a book, etc. is going to "help" people, isn't it? This statement is totally unqualified, vilifies video games unnecessarily, and totally ignores the depth and complexity that can be found in many games. You're just rehashing the typical anti-gaming arguments and trying to make it about Star Wars. :rolleyes:
 
I don't understand why someone would find watching movies and TV shows acceptable, yet be skeptical of the social value of playing video games.

I mean, at least video games are interactive!
 
It's strange that a sci-fi fan (as I would assume anyone posting here would be) would have so low of an opinion of video games. It's the only medium in which sci-fi is at all liked and respected. For that matter, it's the only medium in which new sci-fi is any good.

So what if no one is helped by playing one? Without intentionally sounding like an ass, no one was helped by the writing of the original post, either.
 
Really, the OP's attitude about video games is about 20 years out of date. They have become an art form of their own, as valid as art in any other medium.

As for "helping" anyone, you could go that route with any kind of entertainment. Has Star Wars, as a whole, ever helped anyone? I mean, other than making George Lucas and many others very, very wealthy. :lol: Art doesn't have to "help" people in order to be legitimate, and I object to the notion that gaming is "harmful."
 
And I'm going to assume that, while a certain, moderate amount of gaming can also be benign, it's usually harmful to some degree, and pretty much never a source of societal good.

And you're basing this on what exactly? Media stories spun to generate controversy by accusing games of the same sins as a dozen other past "evils"?

Your argument is flawed by your apparent ignorance of the medium. Videogames are no more a societal evil than Dungeons and Dragons was a gateway to Satan worshipping.

Star Wars is about escapism, not "unplugging from machines". The hero of the original trilogy is a farmer on a backwater world of no importance, who then gets swept into a galactic adventure of black knights and damsels in distress. The audience is swept along with him and most kids end up dreaming about what could happen if they too were Jedi Knights or dashing space pilots.
Videogames allow us to experience a simulacrum of that dream, through our consoles and PC's we get to venture into those fantastical worlds. It is no more harmful a practice than children battling each other with plastic lightsabers, or blowing up LEGO Star Destroyers. It's just a different way of acting out that fantasy.
 
I'd argue that Star Trek's humanism has done more harm than good, but I guess that's a completely different thread. :lol:

Star Wars has never been about anything... and neither has the Matrix or Lord of the Rings for that matter. People may try to make up gobbledegook to try to fit each of those franchise into some theoretical or philosophical framework, but it's all BS.

If someone does get something out of those franchises, then great. But in terms of SF that I'd watch for a message? Star Wars is at the bottom of my list (unless you believe the "Chasing Amy" thing about how it's all about black people who want to be white ;)).
 
And I'm going to assume that, while a certain, moderate amount of gaming can also be benign, it's usually harmful to some degree, and pretty much never a source of societal good.

It's the work of the Devil, I tell ya!
 
And I'm going to assume that, while a certain, moderate amount of gaming can also be benign, it's usually harmful to some degree, and pretty much never a source of societal good.
Videogames allow us to experience a simulacrum of that dream, through our consoles and PC's we get to venture into those fantastical worlds. It is no more harmful a practice than children battling each other with plastic lightsabers, or blowing up LEGO Star Destroyers. It's just a different way of acting out that fantasy.

Quite. I'm never going to get to wield a real lightsabre, fly an X-Wing, save the galaxy, etc., but video games let me feel like I can. Sounds silly, I know, but I think that's why so many people game—it lets us experience or do things we'd never be able to in real life. And I honestly can't understand why some people would view that as being harmful.

Hell, I'd argue the opposite, even, that video games can be one of the most benificial forms of entertainment. But that's probably another thread for another forum...
 
Star Wars has always been relatively short on thematics and, since RotJ/ the PT, has not even the kiddie version of Taoist philosophy at its core. SW/ ESB were not really about unplugging from machines per se - they were about mystical versus material reality. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." Insomuch as machines are a kind of ultimate expression of humanity's belief in material reality as the only reality, you can throw unplugging from machines in there. But really the idea put forth is about mysticism and spirituality over manipulation of matter - which is why the introduction of a material rationale (the oft-bashed midichlorians) for the Force was so jarring and why the final four movies feel like they lack focus. It's not just about the abandoning of the original story arc of Luke's heroic journey at the end of Act Two, it's also about ditching the thematics, simplistic as they were. Not that there's anything wrong with them being simple, especially since they were based in Taoism which is, in many ways, about simplicity.
 
I think there's something rather symmetrical about a grass roots Republic that produced hand crafted art turning into (as power inevitably induces) an Empire of industry that mechanically and methodically churns out product to every conceivable niche of the market. Long live the Emperor; Well played sir.
 
Star Wars is so badly flawed at so many levels that it's hard to take it seriously. I think it started heading south somewhere between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. At first, ightsabers were useless relics of a bygone era. We could imagine that Jedi knights fought with such weapons until blasters rendered them obsolete. But then they morphed into super weapons that could be swung fast enough to block beams traveling at the speed of light, or some such nonsense, but not so fast that people couldn't jump out of the way. :rolleyes:

And it kept getting loonier and loonier. We could go on about the bad dialog, incoherent plot, lack of character development, stereotyping, and internal contradictions, but it's just beating a dead horse.

And who cares if Luke saved the Galaxy? SG-1 has done that at least a dozen times, and they didn't have to get their daddy to do all the heavy lifting.
 
Lightsabers can block blaster bolts because the Jedi/Sith use precognitive vision to know where the bolt is going to be.
 
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB3V3qyZiFM&feature=related[/yt]

Interesting discussion of Jedi done when it was released. Its more of a debate. It could very well be taken word for word to describe the new films.

Interesting comment from Siskel aout 3-D.
 
Huh? Darth Vader is a character who in the first film is a henchman of the week, he has seven minutes of screen time and actually has "Darth" as a first name! Anakin or father Skywalker is a completely different character at this point, he's not Lord Darth Vader.

Not so. In the original film Motti addresses him as "Lord Vader" and Vader finds his "lack of faith disturbing.' :p
 
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