Tuvix
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So someone who kills someone in self defense should be executed?
I'd like to note that the brilliance of the story is that folks are still debating Janeway's solution and Tuvix's desire to live all these years later. In that respect, the ep is a success.
^True. I guess if I were Tuvix, I'd want to live, too. Not sure where I come down in the debate, as I can see merit in all the arguments.
Actually, you're forgetting about the life of the orchid that caused the whole mess to begin with. Damn that orchid!
Or being an absolute dictator or absolute monarch?
Where everything you do is lawful no matter how reprehensible?
Where everything you do is lawful no matter how reprehensible?
Hm. I did mean to say earlier that I would have had more respect for Janeway's decision if there had been some indication that legal precedents were considered and Tuvix was provided with counsel (or at least given the option to decline it).
Alternatively, though far outside the scope of the episode, it would have been interesting if Tuvix had "borrowed" a shuttlecraft and sought asylum from a civilization with which Voyager had no significant preexisting conflicts.
Alternatively, though far outside the scope of the episode, it would have been interesting if Tuvix had "borrowed" a shuttlecraft and sought asylum from a civilization with which Voyager had no significant preexisting conflicts.
This deserves to be quoted because after this, all other arguments are irrelevant.
I say the same thing about Kim daily.
Saquist
Commodore
Actually, you're forgetting about the life of the orchid that caused the whole mess to begin with. Damn that orchid!
Kinda silly that that ordinary matter would effect energetic transport in such a way but you're right I forgot about the orchid that mediated the creation.
I recognizes these as excellent arguments on the behalf of Tuvix. This illuminates the contradictions in an outstanding way.
I understand why Janeway did it... Logic to that purpose would agree that the needs of the many are more important, however logic to individual rights contradicts that so as to wonder if logical purposes contradict each other then the perhaps the only correct course of action is to do nothing.
If I put this in a biblical sense, Christ chose to die for billions of people across the world to answer for God's law of eye for an eye.
Even though logic might dictate that God force Jesus to make this sacrifice he rather allowed the person that would die to make that choice...to sacrifice himself, selflessly.
I have to say that is perhaps the most...reprehensible thing about Tuvix is that he was to afraid to do the right thing AND perhaps to equally reprehensible that Janeway forced him to do so.
Trying to figure out some reprehensibilitymeter here, where do you put the Doctor on it for refusing to save Neelix and Tuvok, and Kes for lobbying for Tuvix's execution with emotional blackmail?
It's not like anyone else knocked on Janeway's door in the middle of night insisting on perhaps alternate methods of punishment or leniency for Suder or the Equinox 5?
How may crew did Tuvok murder in repression when he was subject to antimaquis programming?
3 or 4 maquis crewmen?
OH.
He put is victims into comas with his telepathic abilities.
I suppose if the programming was triggered in Tuvix later, baring that he might not be able to meld, if he wanted to take out a significant amount of the crew at one point, he was the vessels cook, not that if Neelix was still the chef, no one would notice that anything had been poisoned.
It's not like anyone else knocked on Janeway's door in the middle of night insisting on perhaps alternate methods of punishment or leniency for Suder or the Equinox 5?
How may crew did Tuvok murder in repression when he was subject to antimaquis programming?
3 or 4 maquis crewmen?
OH.
He put is victims into comas with his telepathic abilities.
I suppose if the programming was triggered in Tuvix later, baring that he might not be able to meld, if he wanted to take out a significant amount of the crew at one point, he was the vessels cook, not that if Neelix was still the chef, no one would notice that anything had been poisoned.
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...but Tuvix also willingly agreed that if a "cure" was ever found to seperate Neelix & Tuvok again, Tuvix would willingly give up his existance for them. It was the only reason Tuvix was allowed to live to begin with.
Saquist
Commodore
"I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts."
I find the doctor was in agreement with the honor of the Hippocratic Oath to do no harm. Kes however ...that wasn't a good moment for her.
It may have been morally dubious but it needed to be done. Tuvok was vital to Voyager's survival, Tuvix wasn't. (I haven't seen the episode in a while so I'll have to check Memory Alpha later.) Am I disappointed Neelix lived? Yes. Do I wish Tuvix made it out somehow? Yes. But Voyager needed Tuvok and there was no other way.
if Tuvix had said no from the beginning he still would have a sentient being with the right to say no and the right to life.
if I agreed to donate my kidney to someone I can legally pull out of the agreement if I want to even if it means the person I had agreed to save dies.
Tuvix was a much a sentient life as Professor Moriarty was and Picard quickly realsied that Moriarty had a right to exist.
If Tuvok had died Voyager would have continued on without him. He was an important crew member but not vital. Tuvix was doing Tuvok's job adequately.
I think that the Doctor was a more important member of the crew than Tuvok was. But when the Doctor's mobile emitter was fused to create One ,Janeway didn't consider sacrificing One (even though he might be a danger to the crew) to get the mobile emitter back. The Doctor was able to carry out his job far more effeciently with the emitter and I would say that the emitter was more essential to the crew's survival than Tuvok was.
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