You and Kelso so ably express most of my thinking on almost everything, and are both so much more good natured than I am, that my continued posting on this BBS is nearly superfluous.
I'm too much of an S.O.B. to give it up, though.
Could the Tenth Doctor become the Valeyard?
- Thread starter EJA
- Start date
You and Kelso so ably express most of my thinking on almost everything, and are both so much more good natured than I am, that my continued posting on this BBS is nearly superfluous.
I'm too much of an S.O.B. to give it up, though.
Thank you, Dennis. That's an awesome compliment.
I'm too much of an S.O.B. to give it up, though.
Yeah but this place needs a good ol' S.O.B., so "never surrender, never give up."
Odds are the Valeyard will be left in some alternate timeline, just like the fact one of the incarnations after the Seventh Doctor was supposed to become Merlin of King Arthur fame (per Battlefield, 1989), which is also something we're not likely to see happen on TV anytime soon.
Alex
Alex
Another example in that vein would be when, after saying he was going to cripple the Star Whale, he remarked that he'd need to find a new name, since he wouldn't be "the Doctor" anymore.
Keep in mind the Valeyard was supposed to be a potential 13th Doctor, as in FINAL regeneration. The Valeyard was motivated not so much by evil, but out of a fear of dying (Timelords only get 13 lives) and that his actions were an attempt to steal some of his past regenerations so that he could continue to live on.
I think the motivation of wanting to continue living past your time is better than simply "He EVIL I tells ya! EVIL!"
I think the motivation of wanting to continue living past your time is better than simply "He EVIL I tells ya! EVIL!"
As if Davies/Moffat Doctor Who weren't already powered almost entirely by fanwank...
Millions of people are watching the show. They're not doing it out of love for byzantine continuity and cryptic references to Colin Baker.
IMO, the thing to remember about the Valeyard--from the dialogue in "Trial"--is that he is not actually the Doctor. He was created from a future Doctor.
The Doctor will never regenerate into the Valeyard. Ever. And it has nothing to do with timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly stuff. It's more like the Doctor's evil side suddenly took on a life of its own in the future and manifested itself in the form of the Valeyard.
As a result, the Valeyard was free to kill the Sixth Doctor and take over his regeneration cycle because the only real connection between the Valeyard and the Doctor are their memories. If the Doctor dies in an earlier incarnation, the Valeyard won't cease to exist.
Off to the lost pages of history with him, I say. Maybe he got himself killed somewhere. And since he isn't really the Doctor (and never really was), it doesn't really matter, IMO...
The Doctor will never regenerate into the Valeyard. Ever. And it has nothing to do with timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly stuff. It's more like the Doctor's evil side suddenly took on a life of its own in the future and manifested itself in the form of the Valeyard.
As a result, the Valeyard was free to kill the Sixth Doctor and take over his regeneration cycle because the only real connection between the Valeyard and the Doctor are their memories. If the Doctor dies in an earlier incarnation, the Valeyard won't cease to exist.
Off to the lost pages of history with him, I say. Maybe he got himself killed somewhere. And since he isn't really the Doctor (and never really was), it doesn't really matter, IMO...
Not really my point but okay.
That's debatable though, isn't it? The language used is somewhat nebulous and even contradictory.
He's a 'facet' of the doctor (I believe the word used was 'aspect'). This implies he is a part of the whole.
He is also described as a 'potential dark version' of the doctor, and the novelisation of Trial.. describes him as the " penultimate reincarnation... Somewhere between your twelfth and thirteenth regeneration" which could be interpreted as implying he is the thirteenth doctor (i.e the time 'between' the 12th and 13th regenerations is the time period of the 13th doctor).
That just occurred to you?Something which has just occured to me: If the Valeyard was "born" from the Doctor's future self, then wouldn't he remember experiencing the events he sets he sets in motion as the Sixth Doctor, and know that his efforts are doomed to failure?
Maybe he's not strictly a future Doctor, or his personal timeline somehow remains intact so that he remembers what would have happened to Six had the Valeyard not intervened, or there was some kind of mindwipe, or he's whatsername from The End Of The World and New Earth in the Doctor's body (No, wait, scratch that, they have the same handwriting.) Alternatively, maybe he IS the Doctor and is going through the motions because that's what he remembers happening.
It's not really that vague at all. The Valeyard is a future manifestation of the darkest aspects of the Doctor's personality. He is the Doctor's evil side given form. He was created towards the end of the Doctor's regeneration cycle, but nowhere was it actually said he is the twelfth or thirteenth Doctor. For all intents and purposes, he is a nemesis of a future Doctor...
Additionally, as the Valeyard is not an actual future regeneration of the Doctor, that would explain his desire to bump off the Sixth Doctor and steal his remaining regeneration cycle. Otherwise, the Valeyard would be killing off himself or possibly preventing his own creation by tampering with any of the earlier Doctors.
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