startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
I have been watching TWOK and it just blows me away it's just so good anyway what are your thoughts on this superb Star Trek movie.
Who else thinks that Star Trek II is the best?
- Thread starter startrekrcks
- Start date
When I first watched TWoK on its opening weekend in 1982 I was more-or-less thrilled with it. Then I watched it again. And I watched it subsequent times on TV and then on video. And each time my opinion went downwards. Then I saw the TNG films and my opinion went up a bit. Then I saw ST09 and my opinion of TWoK improved a bit more.
It's a fun ride, but I find it deeply flawed. I think what it really comes down to is they chose to do things I didn't like and generally felt were wrong. It is the first time I began to have serious reservations about what was being done with Star Trek.
- After TMP I was set to embark upon the final frontier once again with the crew aboard a fabulous refit Enterprise. Instead we get the E as an outdated training vessel and everyone's is dressed in TOTALLY STUPID LOOKING OUTFITS! And Nick Meyer goes out of his way to make the E look like a lumbering whale and depicting not-so-advanced-looking hardware and tech.
TWoK impressed me as a restart that was trying to get us to forget about TMP. And while I felt TMP had flaws I didn't think it was that bad and it was a decent starting point.
The thing I do like about TWoK is the characterizations. Despite where they are at this stage (instead of exploring the frontier) the characters are generally well done.
It's a fun ride, but I find it deeply flawed. I think what it really comes down to is they chose to do things I didn't like and generally felt were wrong. It is the first time I began to have serious reservations about what was being done with Star Trek.
- After TMP I was set to embark upon the final frontier once again with the crew aboard a fabulous refit Enterprise. Instead we get the E as an outdated training vessel and everyone's is dressed in TOTALLY STUPID LOOKING OUTFITS! And Nick Meyer goes out of his way to make the E look like a lumbering whale and depicting not-so-advanced-looking hardware and tech.
TWoK impressed me as a restart that was trying to get us to forget about TMP. And while I felt TMP had flaws I didn't think it was that bad and it was a decent starting point.
The thing I do like about TWoK is the characterizations. Despite where they are at this stage (instead of exploring the frontier) the characters are generally well done.
I think it's utter garbage and that III is a vast improvement despite being pretty mediocre in general. Just as boring as TMP with none of TMP's visceral qualities. It tries so ridiculously hard to say "LOOK AT ME I'M EDGY AND MATURE" but ends up seeming pointlessly overdone.
Bringing back one of the worst, most one-dimensional villains in Star Trek history really doesn't help its case. Throw in constant passing of the Idiot Ball (check TVtropes if you don't know what I mean) and you have a cult classic.
The only good things about TWOK are the new uniforms and the glasses scenes.
Bringing back one of the worst, most one-dimensional villains in Star Trek history really doesn't help its case. Throw in constant passing of the Idiot Ball (check TVtropes if you don't know what I mean) and you have a cult classic.
The only good things about TWOK are the new uniforms and the glasses scenes.
A
Amaris
Guest
I like The Wrath of Khan, but it's not my favorite Trek movie. That coveted position goes to Star Trek 2009. In fact, for me, The Wrath of Khan is surpassed by several Trek movies. The Final Frontier, The Motion Picture, The Voyage Home, The Undiscovered Country, and then The Wrath of Khan. In this list, it only beats The Search for Spock (in terms of classic Trek), even though I, too, enjoy that movie. Then it's First Contact, Generations, Nemesis and Insurrection.
The Wrath of Khan has some truly great moments going for it, not the least of which is the musical score. However, in terms of that whole Star Trek "feel", not quite.
The Wrath of Khan has some truly great moments going for it, not the least of which is the musical score. However, in terms of that whole Star Trek "feel", not quite.
I like TWOK, it's a great movie but it's up there with my top movies....
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
How is Khan one dimensional I think he was great in Space Seed and TWOK guess taste differs .
He supposedly has a lot of charisma and a tactical brilliance, but he comes off as a creepy jerk who can't think farther than a day ahead. Everything he does or says screams "I AM THE EVIL BAD GUY".
EDIT: I have to disagree, Warped9. I think the IDEA of Khan Noonien Singh was brilliant. But the execution gets a 0/10 for both the episode and the movie from me.
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
Space Seed is amazingly brilliant Ricardo Montalban is so good as Khan but he was mad in TWOK maybe he just wanted revenge.
In "Space Seed" he comes across as arrogant, which of course he's supposed to be. He's an exaggeration of that attitude of "I'm smarter and better than anyone else around me" that he can't even consider that someone else can better him in some way or other.
The chain of events that leads up to him taking over the TOS E is barely plausible. But the chain of events that leads up to him taking over the Reliant beggars belief.
The chain of events that leads up to him taking over the TOS E is barely plausible. But the chain of events that leads up to him taking over the Reliant beggars belief.
A
Amaris
Guest
Agreed. In fact, in reference to taking over the Reliant, I'm sorry, there's just no way. Two handfuls of these guys clear out a 300+ Starfleet trained crew complement? Not going to happen.
Add to the fact that the Reliant doesn't even know what fucking planet they're orbiting and that it should have been listed as off limits. I just don't buy that Starfleet could be that stupid. As soon as it became known what system they were to investigate some computer file red flag should have popped up in Starfleet HQ somewhere and warned the brass: don't let any ship go there.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
wow in the nicholas meyer thread i said your twok post deserves its own thread but i wasn't serious its a good movie and the musics good i saw it on tv the first time in 1985.
A
Amaris
Guest
Do you remember if Kirk ever reported to Starfleet why they needed to avoid the Ceti Alpha system?
^^ It's never stated, but it would be pretty damned negligent if he didn't report it. AND when he sets course for the Ceti Alpha system to investigate NO ONE seems to remember the significance of it and no one seems to do a records check of the system before they get there.
It's a series of logic failures that makes it hard for me to buy the unfolding scenario. Everything perfectly goes wrong to rationalize Khan's escape.
It's a series of logic failures that makes it hard for me to buy the unfolding scenario. Everything perfectly goes wrong to rationalize Khan's escape.
Star Trek II is very good - mostly for the emotional content. As has been pointed out, there's a lot of plot holes and idiot ball passing.
But I don't think Kirk's conflict with Khan is the main conflict he deals with in the film.
But I don't think Kirk's conflict with Khan is the main conflict he deals with in the film.
It rocks! What an amazing story.
Great characters written very well unlike the TMP. It really stood out.
The amazing CGI genesis effect simulation that still looks pretty cool by todays standards. The pacing was good.
Spock's death!
Kirks son!
Kobayashi Maru!
Saavik!
This film set the standard. The only thing that was a let down- Kirk and Khan never went head to head
Great characters written very well unlike the TMP. It really stood out.
The amazing CGI genesis effect simulation that still looks pretty cool by todays standards. The pacing was good.
Spock's death!
Kirks son!
Kobayashi Maru!
Saavik!
This film set the standard. The only thing that was a let down- Kirk and Khan never went head to head
