Enterprise or Voyager?

[Admiral Shran]

I love both shows, but I'm going to have to go with....

Enterprise.

It might have started off abysmally slow, but the final two seasons were better than the entire seven of Voyager. Hell, the final season of Enterprise was better than the entire run of Voyager.

 

[MikeS]

The ballot is too close to call.

 

[Mach5]

Enterprise - Voyager 60:40

 

[Saquist]

I believe VOY gets the short end of the stick because of it's very poor two parters, the First Officer problem that seemed to plague every series but the first, the over use of the hologram stories and the over use of Seven of Nine and the mediocrity of all the other stories. Still, though I think Voyager proved to be smarter than mediocre, but only just so.
​

Could you elaborate on that one? I don't understand what you mean. What kind of problem?

If you are referring to the quality and development of characters, the only show that had a 'first officer problem' was Voyager. Riker may not have been the greatest character in Trek, but he was no worse than half of the main cast and got some interesting episodes in the later seasons.

The writers have always expressed a difficulty for writing stories for Riker Kira and Chakotay. They eventually got out of the slump with Kira finding an arc with Odo but at first here episodes were really hit or miss and cardboard cut outs that seem like they were throwing love interest at her to see what would stick.

Wow..the poll is dead even.
I didn't expect that. I thought the support would be more over powering for ENT.
Fascinating, once again showing the divide.

 

[John200]

I must admit that the passionate defence of Voyager is wining me over to thinking it's a pretty good show again.

Now I'm sorry I sold off the season 4 set.

Anyone got a cheap one they wanna sell?

 

[SilverX2 T.Kirk]

i tossed my vote to voyager.

take two opposing crews, throw them 50 years away from earth, give them one ship within which to co-exist and try and find their way back home. They have limited supplies to make repairs, ration food, replace crew members with new alien species. Finding out the Borg Fear another race?!

Voyager was a compelling drama.

 

[SFRabid]

If NBC thought cancelling TOS was a mistake it would not have taken so long for Trek to get back on the air. The fact is, VERY FEW shows have a planned ending that comes before profit declines. This usually happens only when a major star decides to leave or it is obvious that ideas have run dry. If TNG, DS9 or VOY were making a good profit they would have lasted longer than 7 seasons. You will not see them plan an end to NCIS until popularity fades or Mark Harmon bails.

 

[DevilEyes]

I believe VOY gets the short end of the stick because of it's very poor two parters, the First Officer problem that seemed to plague every series but the first, the over use of the hologram stories and the over use of Seven of Nine and the mediocrity of all the other stories. Still, though I think Voyager proved to be smarter than mediocre, but only just so.
​

Could you elaborate on that one? I don't understand what you mean. What kind of problem?

If you are referring to the quality and development of characters, the only show that had a 'first officer problem' was Voyager. Riker may not have been the greatest character in Trek, but he was no worse than half of the main cast and got some interesting episodes in the later seasons.

The writers have always expressed a difficulty for writing stories for Riker Kira and Chakotay. They eventually got out of the slump with Kira finding an arc with Odo but at first here episodes were really hit or miss and cardboard cut outs that seem like they were throwing love interest at her to see what would stick.

Eh... are you serious?! The writers had problem writing stories for Kira?!?!?!?! * It took them a while to give Sisko, Dax and Bashir something to do, they always had problems giving Jake something to do, and O'Brien only really got his "torture O'Brien" episodes since he had no arc, but Kira was the one person they never had any problems writing for, she had great stories and development from the start of season 1 right until the finale. And you think her only important arc was a relationship with Odo? *facepalm* Sorry, but did you actually watch the show?


* one of the most appropriate uses of this smiley ever

 

[Saquist]

Could you elaborate on that one? I don't understand what you mean. What kind of problem?

If you are referring to the quality and development of characters, the only show that had a 'first officer problem' was Voyager. Riker may not have been the greatest character in Trek, but he was no worse than half of the main cast and got some interesting episodes in the later seasons.

The writers have always expressed a difficulty for writing stories for Riker Kira and Chakotay. They eventually got out of the slump with Kira finding an arc with Odo but at first here episodes were really hit or miss and cardboard cut outs that seem like they were throwing love interest at her to see what would stick.

I must admit that the passionate defence of Voyager is wining me over to thinking it's a pretty good show again.

Now I'm sorry I sold off the season 4 set.

Anyone got a cheap one they wanna sell?

Don't let us sway you. The smart play impresses me more than the drama and DS9 had more drama but Voyager had it's fair share. In fact I think that the real comparison isn't between ENT and VOY it's DS9 and Voyager.
Eh... are you serious?! The writers had problem writing stories for Kira?!?!?!?! * It took them a while to give Sisko, Dax and Bashir something to do, they always had problems giving Jake something to do, and O'Brien only really got his "torture O'Brien" episodes since he had no arc, but Kira was the one person they never had any problems writing for, she had great stories and development from the start of season 1 right until the finale. And you think her only important arc was a relationship with Odo? *facepalm* Sorry, but did you actually watch the show?


* one of the most appropriate uses of this smiley ever

I'm just going by what the writers said.

 

[Saquist]

Delete

 

[DevilEyes]

I'm just going by what the writers said.

I don't know what you're referring to, could you please explain/ provide quotes/links?

 

[Saquist]

No I can't.
I have no idea where I saw that. May have been the Magezine since I have so many of them...

You know come to think of it it may have been a Nana Vistor interview.

 

[Katherine]

 

[Geckothan]

I just can't decide, it's like choosing which way you want to be tortured.

 

[Mach5]

Okay, here it goes...

THE CREW:

Archer - not very competent, and much of the time not very likable
Janeway - hmm, appears both competent and likable, but prone to making terrible choices...

I used to like Archer more, perhaps I still do, but I declare a tie. ENT:VOY 1:1

T'Pol - intriguing, intelligent, eccentric (by Vulcan standards), undoubtedly competent and breathtakingly beautiful
Chakotay - A handsome dude without a shred of charisma. A bland, boring, and utterly forgettable character.

T'Pol wins this one easily. ENT:VOY 2:1

Trip - Fun, lovable, smart, charismatic, brilliant
B'Elanna - An interesting character, smart, charismatic, kinda brilliant, hot tempered...

I like BLT, but I LOVE Trip Tucker! ENT:VOY 3:1

Dr.Phlox - uhm, he's okay...
EMH - awesome

Phlox doesn't stand any chance against The Doc. ENT:VOY 3:2

Travis Mayweather - they say he was the helmsman, but I can't remember ever seeing him on screen...
Tom Paris - Well, that guy was pretty awesome throughout the show...

ENT:VOY 3:3

Lt. Malcolm Reed - I liked this guy, too bad his character never truly developed to his full potential
Tuvok - My favorite character on VOY, by far! A real old school Vulcan, charismatic, intriguing, honorable...

ENT:VOY 3:4

ENT doesn't have an OPS officer, but I guess I could match Harry Kim against Hoshi Sato. I like both of them, and I know Harry isn't exactly wining any popularity contests among the fans, but I always liked the character, for all of his flaws, not despite them.

ENT:VOY 3:5

I've used up all the characters from Enterprise, but VOY deserves a +1 for Seven of Nine, which means the score is now ENT:VOY 3:6

Now there's the question of Neelix... I hate him. He is the single most annoying character in all of Star Trek which makes Wesley Crusher look like Bone McCoy in comparison. -2.5 for VOY. They should have killed off that fur ball pedo f#ck when they had the chance (preferably in "Caretaker").

Final tally: ENT:VOY 3:3.5, a close victory for VOY, but a victory none the less.

THE PLOT:

Lets just say that in its short, four year run, Enterprise offered much more than VOY did in its full seven seasons. VOY completely demystified the Borg, neutered it, took away every single shred of scariness that the TNG Borg possessed.

In my mind, VOY killed the Borg. David Mack managed to bring back a lot of these lost qualities in his "Destiny" novels, but it just wasn't the same. Not for me, at least.

Then there were the 8472's... What did they do with them? Nothing! These aliens had the potential of becoming Trek's next uber-villains, but nooooooo...

ENT at least had the Xindi, whose story arc begun nicely, and had a spectacular closure.

All this being said, I find Enterprise to be a better show. Had it completed it's planned seven year run, I'm pretty sure it would have made VOY look like a kids show in comparison.

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Okay, here's my take on that.

THE CREW:

Archer - Inconsistently written, but clearly improved toward the end. Not likable at times.
Janeway - Inconsistently written throughout the entire series. Not likable many times.

Archer wins. ENT = 1, VOY = 0

T'Pol - An interesting character that presented a view on Vulcans we hadn't seen before. And, she was drop dead sexy.
Chakotay - Who? Oh, Voyager's First Officer. Well.... .... .... .... he knew how to fill that chair next Janeway very well.

T'Pol wins. ENT =2, VOY = 0

Trip - An alright guy, but way too "honkey tonk" for my tastes.
B'Elanna - Fiesty, spirited, and, yet, damaged and fragile underneath her "tough girl" exterior. She also received a fair amount of development.

I think Trip is the better "engineer," but B'Elanna is the better overall character. B'Elanna wins. ENT = 2, VOY =1

Phlox - Optismistic, fun-loving, and kind. However, he practices these traits in moderation. He's not sickeningly-sweet. What Neelix should have been.
The Doctor - Awesome! What else is there to say?

Phlox and The Doctor tie. ENT = 3, VOY = 2

Mayweather - Who? Oh, Enterprise's Helmsman. Well.... .... .... .... he knew how to fill that chair in front of Archer very well.
Paris - Excellent character who received a good amount of development. He started out as the ship's rebel and became an upright family man.

Paris wins. ENT = 3, VOY = 3

Reed - Awesome character who would do whatever it took to protect his ship and crewmates. It's a shame he didn't get more development.
Tuvok - Awesome character who would do whatever it took to protect his ship and crewmates, only he did it logically. Again, a shame he didn't get more development.

Reed and Tuvok tie. ENT = 4, VOY = 4

Sato - An interesting character who received a little development. And, she was unbelieveably beautiful.
Kim - Who? Oh, Voyager's Ops Officer. Well.... .... .... .... who?

Sato wins. ENT = 5, VOY = 4

Seven of Nine - An excellent character who added a lot to the show, was unbelieveably sexy, and received a great deal of development.
Kes - An interesting character who didn't receive the level of development she deserved.
Neelix - Why, oh why was this character included in the show?! He added nothing and was nothing - NOTHING - but annoying. They had the perfect chance to kill him off in Mortail Coil; they could have even let him kill himself and save everyone the trouble. But instead they kept him.

Enterprise had no characters to compare to these three. So, Seven and Kes each add a point for Voyager. However, Neelix negates both of them. So.... ENT = 5, VOY = 4

THE PLOT:

Enterprise - Humanity's first steps into interstellar exploration and the founding of the Federation. Absolutely excellent idea! The first two seasons really f#cked this up. The third season sort of healed some of the wounds. The final season finally fixed them.
Voyager - Starfleet and Maquis crew are forced to work together to get home from the other side of galaxy. Absolutely excellent idea! However, they royally f#cked this up by having next to no conflict between the Starfleet and Maquis crews.

Enterprise wins, in a very close race, just on the sheer awesomeness of its fourth season. ENT = 6, VOY = 4

THE VILLIANS:

Enterprise - The Suliban. The Xindi. The Romulans. The whole Temporal Cold War concept was ill-advised, ill-suited for a prequel series, and ill-executed. The Xindi were much better. However, they suffer from the facts that the Xindi Arc was part of the Temporal Cold War and that we had never heard one word about them in the entire 24 seasons of Trek previously viewed. The Romulans were the villians Enterprise needed from the beginning. It's shame they were used so little.
Voyager - The Kazon. The Borg. The Kazon were just awful and laughable. Period. The Borg were defanged, yes. But, I chalk that up to bad writing. Deep Space Nine showed, with the Dominion, that a constantly used villian can work, with good writing. I personally have no problem with using the Borg over and over again.

Voyager wins, in a VERY close race, just because Enterprise suffered from ill-conceived villians until it was too late. ENT = 6, VOY = 5

So, Enterprise wins the day. And like you said Mach5, if the show had been allowed to continue, it would have easily left Voyager in the dust.

 

[AuntKate]

What I saw of ENT was poorly executed rewrites of plots done better and with more finesse on previous series. That said, I bailed long before season four.

 

[buckeyenation]

Enterprise all the way. Voyager had it's moments, but overall was a bit flat and uninspired despite attempts at grandeur.Enterprise, on the other hand went about it's buisness with an almost quiet dignity that I found most satisfactory.

 

[TheGodBen]

Voyager, by a long shot. I think what people seem to forget is Enterprise was the first series since the original to be canceled, and it was done so for a reason. The show sucked.

That's just about the worst argument against a show I've ever seen. Just take the example of Arrested Development; one of the finest comedy series of all time, it was critically acclaimed and won many awards, but it was cancelled after only two and a half seasons. Cancellation and quality have absolutely no correlation, if they did then 95% of the shows on television would have been cancelled before their 6th episode.


I voted for Enterprise. Voyager had better characters overall, the problem was that very little happened with them, while Enterprise had a less interesting cast but allowed them to grow. Well, some of them, the best debater in the world couldn't make a case for Mayweather.

 

[SFRabid]

... Just take the example of Arrested Development; one of the finest comedy series of all time, it was critically acclaimed and won many awards, but it was cancelled after only two and a half seasons. Cancellation and quality have absolutely no correlation, if they did then 95% of the shows on television would have been cancelled before their 6th episode.
...

Good point. I would say more but that long running quality show American Idol is on and I have to watch.