The sad thing is you'd be hard pressed to find a RadioShack with that kind of electronics hobbyist stock now.
They just want to sell you cell phones and iPod accessories.
And uh...... this is why I never watched Trekkies.
Depressing.
TOS myths and misconceptions...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
The sad thing is you'd be hard pressed to find a RadioShack with that kind of electronics hobbyist stock now.
They just want to sell you cell phones and iPod accessories.
And uh...... this is why I never watched Trekkies.
Depressing.
number6
Vice Admiral
Well, that's kind of the point though. She's batshit crazy. She's the Ultimate Galactic Phycho Ex.
It's pretty disturbing when you really think about it. Something that people forget about the Third season was that it was replete with such dark moments.
I can actually understand why some people would think that, though. Given her [then Spock-like] demeanor in "The Cage"/"The Menagerie," I could see some people thinking that she was the product of some sort of genetic perfection program or whatever and that her designation was Number One. And if some people weren't aware that Number One was a reference to a ship's second-in-command, there probably was no other reason for them to think otherwise, especially if they were kids or teenagers at the time.
As a side note, there were two Star Trek comic book stories recently that featured the character of Number One--one before she came to the Enterprise and one after she left and became a starship captain in her own right--and she was never addressed by anything other than her rank. Even when she became a commodore, she was referred to only as "the Commodore" by her crew.
Then there is the explanation given by DC Fontana in her novel, "Vulcan's Glory", in which she comes from a race of genetically engineered women, and that she literally was the #1 woman of her birth year, 'class' or whatever - the one that was the most perfect genetically speaking....
I remember seeing that somewhere in a Star Trek novel...it was all consonants...
Not a novel. The prozine, "USS Enterprise Officer's Manual". The name was developed as a bit of a joke at one of the big Los Angeles Star Trek conventions. The surname was: Xtmprszntwfd.
The Star Trek novel "Ishmael" gave him the full name of S'chn T'gai Spock.
Mr. Mxyzptlk?
These alleged "proofs" of Vulcan emotionality, shallowness, conniving etc are simply the human interpretation of behaviors displayed by an alien species. It is human motives your are seeing but which do not necessitate that the species has the human characteristics you describe.
In the TOS era, Vulcans were written and described in the literature as having limited emotions. This was both by nurture AND by nature. TOS era Vulcans had supposedly suppressed emotions for so long they "almost became incapable of them". They had "intentionally altered the course of their evolution". Their logical and unemotional behavior became instinctive and inborn over the course of many generations. The idea that Vulcans were these highly emotional creatures who were constantly repressing powerful emotions was a later embellishment.
I liked unemotional Vulcans because they were the only live alien species Trek has shown that gave us people who differed from humans on the outside as well as on the inside. The idea that "everyone is the same on the inside, we all need to be loved, accepted, feel secure etc etc" was not presented in the Vulcans -- and it blew our minds. Sarek, T'Pau T'Pring were cold, compelling, scary, enigmatic -- fascinating to us. They were cerebral characters who made us think as well as react. We didn't understand them or their motives so their mysteriousness made us think.
Just because a species has limited emotion does not mean that they wouldn't have values or ideals to which they strive, and which provide the motivations for their behavior. We have seen the TOS Vulcans value logic, peace, order, knowledge, industriousness, harmony, balance etc. The reasons why these things are of value to Vulcans can be derived logically, not necessarily through emotions. One could present a logical, ethical arguement to defend the ideals to which Vulcan society strives.
The behaviors you mention could all be explained logically using the Vulcan system of values. Spock having a so-called emotional attachment to his former captain may not be emotional rather it can be logically derived from the value system he embraces. Pike probably saved Spock's rear-end many times. Repaying debts is a very logical thing to do. It forwards the ideals of justice, fairness, order etc. Spock took an oath which demanded he be concerned about the welfare of his captain that did not end when he was transferred to another captain, this forwards the value of trust, honesty, and the dependability which promises, and oaths need to have any meaning at all. These are needed to benefit all of society. Placing the needs of others before your own promotes peace - if we all did it the galaxy would be Utopian!! Promoting values deemed by the Vulcans to be "good' and "beneficial" can be defended logically too.
I could go on applying logical explanations for the behaviors you have cited. What is certain is that Vulcan's view their behavior as logical. What we see as emotional may not be.
This does not imply that Vulcans all behave the same and find motivations for their behavior based upon the same values. Logic supposedly is pretty cut and dry but what is seen as ethical and beneficial is subject to interpretation of the individual, the society, the circumstances to which it is applied. One of the best depictions of this is seen in Journey to Babel, when Spock has to decide how to behave based upon conflicting Vulcan values. Another well done depiction is in ST6 - the contrast seen between the 2 logical derived motivations based upon a similar value systems seen in Spock verses Valeris. Both can defend their behavior based upon logic and the same values... yet they differ. This does not indicate that emotion was involved, rather it demonstrates how logic can be applied to the same situation yet different conclusions can be made.
NuTrek destroyed the mysterious, logical, limited emotional Vulcans. They lost their differentness from humans and, for me, their ability to provoke thought, humor and drama in the fashion they could in TOS. Many go back to TOS and find behavior in Vulcans to be humanlike but the Vulcans of the TOS era were scripted to provide a contrast to humans - not a commonality. The tendency to humanize the Vulcans takes so much of the cerebralness out of Trek that the logical, unemotional TOS Vulcans provided. NuTrek became a soap-opera, dramatic saga.
Any discussion of TOS Vulcans though must take into account that Spock is a Vulcan/Human hybrid and it does effect his behavior - even if he denies it.
I will provide some early descriptions for TOS Vulcans. I await my chastisement and banishing.
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TOS era description of Vulcans:
"The Making of Star Trek" - Whitfiled/Roddenberrry (1968) pp 225-226
"Spock's stoic temperament, his refusal to say anything or do anything not based on logic, is also a reflection of his Vulcan heritage. Complete adherence to logic is the primary motivating factor in the Vulcan mental process. Of necessity, complete suppression of emotions is required, lest logic be influenced in any way.
Over a peroid of many centuries, the Vulcans have practiced both total concentration and complete suppression of emotions. From the time of his birth, a Vulcan child is taught that to show emotion is highly improper, that it is considered an extreme breach of good taste.
The reason for suppressing emotions should be obvious. Emotion gets in the way of order and tranquility. It is undeniably true that emotion has killed more people on Earth than any other cause. Vulcans long ago concluded that emotion was dangerous, set about to repress it and replace it with logic. Century after century, through practice and custom, they repressed emotion until became almost incapable of it. Logic became breath, sensation as uplifting and delightful as the emotion it replaced.
In many ways logic made the planet Vulcan superior to Earth. Its last ten centuries have been much more peaceful than Earth's past eras.
Because of his mother's origin, however, Spock does have a human side to his personality. A human side with emotions. The result is a continual struggle within himself to suppress his feelings. But his Vulcan half is normally in control. Conditioned since childhood not only to deny but also to be ashamed of emotion, Spock thrusts his fellings aside and finds a 'logical' rationalization to explain it.
Which is one of the reasons why Spock is an interesting character: the turmoil and conflict within. As half-Human and half-Vulcan, he is continually at war with himself. For some reason this makes him particularly delightful to our female viewers, and of all ages. I guess they know that somewhere inside him there is a strong emotional earth man trying to come out. And they would love to help."................................
"Dorothy Fontana, our former Story Consultant, chose the name Amanda because it means "worthy of being loved", and Amanda must have been, for a Vulcan, WHO FINDS IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPRESS THE EMOTION OF LOVE, to marry her."
"The Making of Star Trek" - Whitfiled/Roddenberrry (1968) pp 225-226
"Spock's stoic temperament, his refusal to say anything or do anything not based on logic, is also a reflection of his Vulcan heritage. Complete adherence to logic is the primary motivating factor in the Vulcan mental process. Of necessity, complete suppression of emotions is required, lest logic be influenced in any way.
Over a peroid of many centuries, the Vulcans have practiced both total concentration and complete suppression of emotions. From the time of his birth, a Vulcan child is taught that to show emotion is highly improper, that it is considered an extreme breach of good taste.
The reason for suppressing emotions should be obvious. Emotion gets in the way of order and tranquility. It is undeniably true that emotion has killed more people on Earth than any other cause. Vulcans long ago concluded that emotion was dangerous, set about to repress it and replace it with logic. Century after century, through practice and custom, they repressed emotion until became almost incapable of it. Logic became breath, sensation as uplifting and delightful as the emotion it replaced.
In many ways logic made the planet Vulcan superior to Earth. Its last ten centuries have been much more peaceful than Earth's past eras.
Because of his mother's origin, however, Spock does have a human side to his personality. A human side with emotions. The result is a continual struggle within himself to suppress his feelings. But his Vulcan half is normally in control. Conditioned since childhood not only to deny but also to be ashamed of emotion, Spock thrusts his fellings aside and finds a 'logical' rationalization to explain it.
Which is one of the reasons why Spock is an interesting character: the turmoil and conflict within. As half-Human and half-Vulcan, he is continually at war with himself. For some reason this makes him particularly delightful to our female viewers, and of all ages. I guess they know that somewhere inside him there is a strong emotional earth man trying to come out. And they would love to help."................................
"Dorothy Fontana, our former Story Consultant, chose the name Amanda because it means "worthy of being loved", and Amanda must have been, for a Vulcan, WHO FINDS IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPRESS THE EMOTION OF LOVE, to marry her."
The World of Star Trek" by David Gerrold 1973 pp 13-14
"Most importantly, the Vulcan culture placed a great premium on rationality. Open displays of emotion were worse than gauche - they were savage. Barbaric. An unpleasant reminder of the animal origins of every Vulcan. The beastiality of the Vulcan heart had to be stifled.
Vulcans were consciously trying to forget their past - or at least, live it down. According to Star Trek episode "All Our Yesterdays" written by Jean Aroeste, Vulcan had had a long and savage history, with wars much more vicious and destructive than anything that has ever been experienced on Earth.
The Vulcan culture finally rejected its savage heritage - rejected it so thoroughly that they rejected anything that smacked of it as well. Wars are emotional experiences that stem from individuals and groups of individuals and nations acting irrationally, reacting with their adrenals instead of their brains. In rejecting war and savagery, Vulcans were forced to also reject emotions.
Just as Freedom and Opportunity are the spoken goals of most Earth cultures, so did Rationality and Logic become keystones of the Vulcan culture. VULCANS CAREFULLY BRED EMOTIONS OUT OF THEMSELVES. THEY CONDITIONED THEMSELVES AND THEIR CHILDREN TO BE LOGICAL. THEY CONSCIOUSLY ALTERED THE DIRECTION OF THEIR EVOLUTION.
The result is the supra-rational Vulcans society that produced the First Officer Mr Spock.
Spock's father was a Vulcan who married an Earthwoman, because "it seemed the logical thing to do." .......
The half-and-half nature of Spock's persona is part of what makes him such an interesting character. There is too much Earthman in him for him to be completely Vulcan, and there is much too much Vulcan in him for him to even try to be human.
Spock was raised on Vulcan, consequently he thinks like a Vulcan. More importantly, he thinks of himself AS a Vulcan - not a human being, not even a half-breed, but a VULCAN. He shows pride only in his Vulcan heritage, he almost flaunts his Vulcan rationality and inherent superiority to emotional human beings. He is ashamed of his human inhertitance. He tries to hide it as a weakness, as one would be ashamed of the great-uncle who was hung as a horse theif. Thus, Spock is ashamed of the fact that he has feelings. (An interesting paradox, that.) He tries to pretend he doesn't, or that he has them strictly under control, but occasionally we see that this just isn't so.
From a dramatic point of view, Spock is a beautiful character... ....."
"Most importantly, the Vulcan culture placed a great premium on rationality. Open displays of emotion were worse than gauche - they were savage. Barbaric. An unpleasant reminder of the animal origins of every Vulcan. The beastiality of the Vulcan heart had to be stifled.
Vulcans were consciously trying to forget their past - or at least, live it down. According to Star Trek episode "All Our Yesterdays" written by Jean Aroeste, Vulcan had had a long and savage history, with wars much more vicious and destructive than anything that has ever been experienced on Earth.
The Vulcan culture finally rejected its savage heritage - rejected it so thoroughly that they rejected anything that smacked of it as well. Wars are emotional experiences that stem from individuals and groups of individuals and nations acting irrationally, reacting with their adrenals instead of their brains. In rejecting war and savagery, Vulcans were forced to also reject emotions.
Just as Freedom and Opportunity are the spoken goals of most Earth cultures, so did Rationality and Logic become keystones of the Vulcan culture. VULCANS CAREFULLY BRED EMOTIONS OUT OF THEMSELVES. THEY CONDITIONED THEMSELVES AND THEIR CHILDREN TO BE LOGICAL. THEY CONSCIOUSLY ALTERED THE DIRECTION OF THEIR EVOLUTION.
The result is the supra-rational Vulcans society that produced the First Officer Mr Spock.
Spock's father was a Vulcan who married an Earthwoman, because "it seemed the logical thing to do." .......
The half-and-half nature of Spock's persona is part of what makes him such an interesting character. There is too much Earthman in him for him to be completely Vulcan, and there is much too much Vulcan in him for him to even try to be human.
Spock was raised on Vulcan, consequently he thinks like a Vulcan. More importantly, he thinks of himself AS a Vulcan - not a human being, not even a half-breed, but a VULCAN. He shows pride only in his Vulcan heritage, he almost flaunts his Vulcan rationality and inherent superiority to emotional human beings. He is ashamed of his human inhertitance. He tries to hide it as a weakness, as one would be ashamed of the great-uncle who was hung as a horse theif. Thus, Spock is ashamed of the fact that he has feelings. (An interesting paradox, that.) He tries to pretend he doesn't, or that he has them strictly under control, but occasionally we see that this just isn't so.
From a dramatic point of view, Spock is a beautiful character... ....."
Not from me! A more cogent and insightful post I've never encountered.
You know that Balance of Terror is a mess internally. But it seems to me that everyone thinks Spock says that the Romulan war was fought with atomic weapons.
But what he says is this:
Which to me would indicate a comparison between what was used and atomic weapons. Then of course the Romulan Commander uses an atomic weapon:
So who the hell really knows...
But what he says is this:
Which to me would indicate a comparison between what was used and atomic weapons. Then of course the Romulan Commander uses an atomic weapon:
So who the hell really knows...
There's a huge difference between:
and
If they were meaning for Spock to say the war was fought with atomic weapons, why add the qualifier?
'-by our standards today' would be a way to tell the viewer that although they were currently living in fear of a nuclear war between the US and USSR... for the crew of the Enterprise BY THEIR STANDARDS, nuclear weapons are primitive.
It's just a way to encourage the viewers to put this in a time far beyond their own.
It's just a way to encourage the viewers to put this in a time far beyond their own.
But doesn't 'primitive' serve the same exact purpose? It's not like Spock to embellish where it really isn't necessary.
To me this line gives Enterprise leeway in how it presents technology in the 22nd century, that I didn't think existed before.
Out of universe... it is of course careless writing.
In universe... I'd buy you explanation if it came from any character other than Spock. With it being Spock... it does leave a crack.
Interesting take on this that completely misses another possibility... it could just as easily mean the nuclear weapons themselves were primitive. Perhaps in the days of the Romulan War, nukes were completely unrefined compared to Trek's modern nukes. Which of course would be clean, safe, have a precisely adjustable yield, and used as the modern replacement for dynamite.
GL could not have product anything superior because he is a director/producer/businessman. However his company ILM certainly could have done better under the same limitations.
Let's face it the companies that did the FX for Star Trek were fledglings at creating those kind of visuals on a weekly basis and it shows. ILM is the best VFX company in the business and it shows on every project they've ever done. Young Indiana Jones was a low budget weekly series and ILM did the visuals for a song.
Any putting aside the childish Lucas bashing it is a fact that George Lucas is big on reducing costs on his own projects and getting superior results to bigger budgeted productions.
That's one of the reasons CGI came about in the first place. It's less expensive to produce than traditional models and chemical compositing and it can be done much faster not to mention bigger and far better.
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