The State of Star Trek Literature

[TheAlmanac]

On the issue of why there are so many more Star Wars books than Star Trek books in bookstores, the explanation is simple. Star Wars is more popular. Way more popular. The other half of the puzzle: Star Trek was at its peak of mass popularity nearly fifteen years ago, and until the Abrams movie, it was declining steadily. What more explanation does anyone need?

I'm glad you said this so succinctly.

Everything else about Star Wars fandom is (demographically) the same as Star Trek fandom, so trying to explain this phenomenon by way of the existence of e-commerce, the availability of online reference sources, editorial choices, sheer output, or anything else mentioned in this thread and elsewhere always seems somewhat disingenuous.

 

[kkozoriz1]

For what it's worth, our original outline for Open Secrets featured an entirely new character to replace Reyes, and it was suggested that we replace that character with Nogura. We even had the "small-universe syndrome" discussion, but ultimately decided it would be more fun to flesh out to this character that everybody's heard of, yet has only been seen once or twice, and his characterization has never been consistent from appearance to appearance.

So, as you can see, David's observation on the writing (and editing) of tie-ins is pretty much spot on.

I see it as another TOS tie in in a series that already has a large number of them. Dr. M'Benga (now gone), D'Amato and the story of his wife and Pennington. Carol Marcus. Gorkon. Clark Terrell. That's just quickly off the top of my head. It just makes the universe smaller in my opinion. Even the story of the cloaked Romulan ship, although that was a one off. With the tie in of the metageonome and Genesis it's even more crowded.

Vanguard has a rich cast of compelling characters. I'd hate to see them get shuffled off to the background to give attention to a minor character that's been mentioned in two lines of dialog.

Similarly, I really got into Titan once they got out of the Romulan/Tholian/Vanguard Colony and started exploring. Bringing them back for the tie in with Destiny broke up a nice string of exploration. If there's a way to do a tie in without having them actually team up could work but would be silly if used more than once or twice. Sometimes ships are just too far away to do any good. I'm wary of the Typhon Pact for this reason. I'll probably wait until all books are out and check the reviews before deciding if I'll buy it.

The new status quo of the Federation with billions dead and worlds blasted and uninhabitable doesn't sound like my Star Trek. Trek used to represent an optimistic future. The Dominon war wasn't that long ago. Trek doesn't need to throw itself into the dirt in order to climb out of it.

 

[Dayton Ward]

I see it as another TOS tie in in a series that already has a large number of them. Dr. M'Benga (now gone), D'Amato and the story of his wife and Pennington. Carol Marcus. Gorkon. Clark Terrell. That's just quickly off the top of my head. It just makes the universe smaller in my opinion. Even the story of the cloaked Romulan ship, although that was a one off. With the tie in of the metageonome and Genesis it's even more crowded.

While I could probably give you a couple of those, it's worth noting that Carol Marcus and her work (and whatever might come from it, particularly as a result of anything encountered in the VGD books) has been an intrinsic part of the storyline since the concept was developed. One of the driving points of the Vanguard story is to add weight and context to things first seen in TOS, showing that those events didn't happen in vacuum. So, yes, there will be some ties to it. Carol Marcus is one of the prime ones.

As for the Romulan ship (from Summon the Thunder), I'm not sure I understand what you meant there, as that was an entire cast of new characters.

Vanguard has a rich cast of compelling characters. I'd hate to see them get shuffled off to the background to give attention to a minor character that's been mentioned in two lines of dialog.

While I admit my bias, I'm pretty sure there's a healthy balance throughout the series.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Everything else about Star Wars fandom is (demographically) the same as Star Trek fandom,

No, it's definitely not.

"Star Wars" has an enormous appeal to young children. While "Star Trek" certainly garnered lots of child viewers via Saturday morning TAS and repeats of TOS in early prime time viewing (in USA in the 70s), who then grew up with the ST movies era, that didn't mean that the audience who saw ST:TMP in cinemas was the same demographic as saw "Star Wars: A New Hope", nor that those people who followed both franchises in the 80s got the same out of each one.

"Star Trek" seemed to move its tie-in focus into the adult realm in the 80s. SW stayed with the kids. Following the dismal failure of Mego's 3.75" TMP range (meant to rival the hugely successful "Star Wars" figures of the day), "Star Trek" began to gain its prominence as original-novels-for-adults. And then hardcover novels. "Star Trek" regularly featured on the New York Times Bestseller lists for many years - and "Star Wars" barely attempted to be a competitor ("Splinter of the Mind's Eye", and a Han trilogy and a Lando trilogy, all in MMPB).

IIRC, there was a "Starlog" interview with George Lucas where he regretted letting ST have such a long, unopposed run in bookshops. (It seemed to me that it was Vonda McInytre's success with her early ST tie-in books that made her one of the first bestseller "Star Wars" hardcover novelists. Ditto AC Crispin and others.)

Looking back, while TNG was excellent family viewing, the next few ST TV series began to be relegated to later and later timeslots. I wonder if, when Wesley Crusher left TNG, and Susan Sackett and Fred Bronson proposed a Wesley-at-the-Academy animated series (which was knocked on the head immediately by Rick Berman), that this wasn't the death knell for ST's appeal to the younger demographic? Wil Wheaton supposedly got more fan mail than any other cast member in those first few years. Wesley leaving TNG may have sent many young fans in search of other shows to follow.

 

[seigezunt]

but the chice of Admiral Nogura just left me cold. It makes the universe seem too small if half the people showing up know Jim Kirk. It's a new series, let it make it's on way.

And, of course, if they had chosen to use Admiral Noname, someone would be saying, "Hey, why didn't the authors have some balls and take the opportunity to use an admiral we barely know from TOS and expand upon him instead of wasting the position on someone totally new?"

This strikes me as about unlikely a reaction as you could get.

Admiral Noguchi, anyone?

 

[kkozoriz1]

While I could probably give you a couple of those, it's worth noting that Carol Marcus and her work (and whatever might come from it, particularly as a result of anything encountered in the VGD books) has been an intrinsic part of the storyline since the concept was developed. One of the driving points of the Vanguard story is to add weight and context to things first seen in TOS, showing that those events didn't happen in vacuum. So, yes, there will be some ties to it. Carol Marcus is one of the prime ones.

As for the Romulan ship (from Summon the Thunder), I'm not sure I understand what you meant there, as that was an entire cast of new characters.

Vanguard has a rich cast of compelling characters. I'd hate to see them get shuffled off to the background to give attention to a minor character that's been mentioned in two lines of dialog.

While I admit my bias, I'm pretty sure there's a healthy balance throughout the series.

I should have been clearer about the Romulans. The impression I got was that the ship the Enterprise wasn't the first one to cross the neutral zone under cloak. We are supposed to get the idea that they've been doing this for a while, perhaps quite a while. If that's the case though, why would they ship in BoT attact the outposts rather than, say, Earth? The Vanguard Romulan story complicated the story from BoT rather than simply showing another side of it. If Vanguard had simply gotten the report on the cloaking device after the fact and amid rising tensions with the Klingons and Tholians it would have been quite compelling. As it was, to me at least, it felt like a tie-in to a TOS episode with no real bearing on the Vanguard story.

I have no objection to a few connections to TOS in the story. Carol Marcus makes sense as we know where this is going and the tragedy that will come of it. Some of the other TOS connections feel like they're tossed <sorry > into the mix just to add to retrol TOS feeling. I'm not objecting to some connections, I'm objecting to whay I feel is an over abundance and perhaps an over reliance on them.

It's a big galaxy Mr. Scott....

 

[Stevil2001]

Though it's true that editorial concerns often ask for characters to be changed to familiar ones-- I've experienced that myself-- I just don't buy that masses of fans would have been baying for Admiral Padmanabhan to be Admiral Nogura.

But I myself was quite pleased with selection of Nogura: a nice opportunity, and he's hardly taken any time away from the regulars, since Vanguard's plots are more flexible than Trek's typical captain-XO-&c. lineups.

 

[Dayton Ward]

I should have been clearer about the Romulans. The impression I got was that the ship the Enterprise wasn't the first one to cross the neutral zone under cloak. We are supposed to get the idea that they've been doing this for a while, perhaps quite a while. If that's the case though, why would they ship in BoT attact the outposts rather than, say, Earth? The Vanguard Romulan story complicated the story from BoT rather than simply showing another side of it.

In the last chapter of STT, we learn that the "BoT" mission is essentially being set up because, from the Romulan point of view, the Federation's attention is being drawn away from the border separating Fed and Romulan space, so opportunity to gauge defenses, etc. seems to have presented itself, after a long period of being in the dark.

If Vanguard had simply gotten the report on the cloaking device after the fact and amid rising tensions with the Klingons and Tholians it would have been quite compelling. As it was, to me at least, it felt like a tie-in to a TOS episode with no real bearing on the Vanguard story.

That's because some of those threads are still playing out in the Vanguard storyline

I have no objection to a few connections to TOS in the story. Carol Marcus makes sense as we know where this is going and the tragedy that will come of it. Some of the other TOS connections feel like they're tossed <sorry > into the mix just to add to retrol TOS feeling. I'm not objecting to some connections, I'm objecting to whay I feel is an over abundance and perhaps an over reliance on them.

It's a big galaxy Mr. Scott....

And we're talking about a storyline that unfolds over the course of several years, and was designed intentionally to move in stride with and even interweave with (depending on the particular character/plot point/etc.) what you saw on TV. So, as some would believe, this isn't happening because we're unimaginative or lazy. There's deliberate intent behind many of the choices being made (and sometimes, something like adding Nogura comes along and feels appropriate to add to the mix because it's fun). You just haven't seen all of the reasons for said choices quite yet.

 

[TheAlmanac]

Everything else about Star Wars fandom is (demographically) the same as Star Trek fandom,

No, it's definitely not.

"Star Wars" has an enormous appeal to young children.

Er, okay, but while that may be true, or may have been true at one time (all of your references to both franchises' approach were at least 20 years old), we're not talking about "The State of Star Trek Tie-Ins for Young Children."

The tie-in books we're talking about are essentially aimed at the same (adult) market, and I think that (for example) Star Wars fans are just as likely to be early online adopters as Star Trek fandom is/was, so that explanation (amongst others I mentioned before) for the difference in visible profile just doesn't seem plausible.

 

[kkozoriz1]

And we're talking about a storyline that unfolds over the course of several years, and was designed intentionally to move in stride with and even interweave with (depending on the particular character/plot point/etc.) what you saw on TV. So, as some would believe, this isn't happening because we're unimaginative or lazy. There's deliberate intent behind many of the choices being made (and sometimes, something like adding Nogura comes along and feels appropriate to add to the mix because it's fun). You just haven't seen all of the reasons for said choices quite yet.

One thing that bothered me about the last Vanguard was the time that passed during it. It felt as if you needed the story to get to a particular point ASAP so the story was compressed and a year passed in the space of one book.

Vanguard and Titan are about the only Trek series I'm following at this point. As I've got pretty much every Trek book published up until the past couple of years I almost feel sad about that. Maybe Abrahms was right "This isn't my father's Star Trek" any more. The problem being, I'm the father now <grin>

 

[pookha]

Analog[/I] magazine, and I happen to live just a block away from the house where the editor of Analog used to live decades ago.

the curent editor or bova or campbell???

 

[Therin of Andor]

Er, okay, but while that may be true, or may have been true at one time (all of your references to both franchises' approach were at least 20 years old), we're not talking about "The State of Star Trek Tie-Ins for Young Children."

No, but having a continual stream of new youngsters to grow old with your franchise is very important, and ST hasn't done that very well since its days of prime time TNG and TOS movies.

ST and SW have had a different evolution and, although the seething mass audience appears to be the same for both (to outsiders), it is definitely made up of very different demographics, as per their wants and needs, and the people who follow one of the franchises for purely nostalgic reasons.

SW continues to maintain a seemingly very healthy action figure and toy line. (There may be a huge turnover of who's still buying.) ST's toy lines peaked during TNG and have since become a more obscure adult collectors' niche, no matter which company obtains the licenses.

SW and ST both continue to churn out lots of tie-in literature, but there doesn't seem to be too much of an overlap in their consumers.

 

[Therin of Andor]

One thing that bothered me about the last Vanguard was the time that passed during it. It felt as if you needed the story to get to a particular point ASAP so the story was compressed and a year passed in the space of one book.

Sometimes not much happens on a space station. Thankfully the authors leave out the boring months, and the chapters full of detailed descriptions of bored security guards picking their noses, waiting for some new action to come along.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Yeah, DS9 had long periods where all they did was play darts and complain how boring it was

I'd be interested to see a map of the area Vanguard is based in. The Federation, Klingons & Tholians side by side and close enough to the Romulans that and old style BoP can still cruise through the area under cloak.

More exploration, more strange new worlds and more new civilizations.

 

[Christopher]

And coincidences do happen. I've sold four novelettes to Analog magazine, and I happen to live just a block away from the house where the editor of Analog used to live decades ago.

the curent editor or bova or campbell???

Stanley Schmidt, the current editor, and the one who bought those four novelettes. He wasn't the editor of Analog at the time he lived on my street. I should've phrased that sentence less ambiguously.

 

[pookha]

Er, okay, but while that may be true, or may have been true at one time (all of your references to both franchises' approach were at least 20 years old), we're not talking about "The State of Star Trek Tie-Ins for Young Children."

No, but having a continual stream of new youngsters to grow old with your franchise is very important, and ST hasn't done that very well since its days of prime time TNG and TOS movies.

ST and SW have had a different evolution and, although the seething mass audience appears to be the same for both (to outsiders), it is definitely made up of very different demographics, as per their wants and needs, and the people who follow one of the franchises for purely nostalgic reasons.

SW continues to maintain a seemingly very healthy action figure and toy line. (There may be a huge turnover of who's still buying.) ST's toy lines peaked during TNG and have since become a more obscure adult collectors' niche, no matter which company obtains the licenses.

SW and ST both continue to churn out lots of tie-in literature, but there doesn't seem to be too much of an overlap in their consumers.

is there some type of article you can cite for the above.

 

[pookha]

And coincidences do happen. I've sold four novelettes to Analog magazine, and I happen to live just a block away from the house where the editor of Analog used to live decades ago.

the curent editor or bova or campbell???

Stanley Schmidt, the current editor, and the one who bought those four novelettes. He wasn't the editor of Analog at the time he lived on my street. I should've phrased that sentence less ambiguously.

that is ok..
i just thought it would be cool if you lived on the same street as campbell.

 

[Sxottlan]

Intriguing responses so far.

Kind of sad though the number who have said their interest in the line is waning.

 

[Therin of Andor]

is there some type of article you can cite for the above.

Gosh, I dunno. Tens of "Starlog" articles, but I'm not going down to the garage to dig up page and issue numbers.

I've lived through all this, as have many SW and ST original fans. If you didn't live through it, just play with the production dates for TOS, TAS, "A New Hope", TMP and TOS going into prime time syndication.

 

[Judith Sisko]

1. How do you feel the Trek book line has done in the last 12-15 months?

I have not been nearly as interested as I have been in past years. I think I've purchased only 4 mmpb and NO tpb, which is unusual for me.

2. What specifically have you liked in regards to the entire Trek book line in that time? Any favorite novels?

There are a few books I enjoyed more than others, but nothing in the "Articles of the Federation" or "Reap the Whirlwind" status. I like how the Titan crew seems to have "settled in" a little. I think too many charaters were introduced at once and caused the overall stories to be overpowered by the cast.


3. And what specifically have you disliked in regards to the Trek book line of the last year or so? Any bad or disappointing novels?

I'm most dissatisfied with the direction of the DS9R novels. I stopped reading them. Warpath was the last one I purchased. I checked a few out of the library after that, but stopped.

While I'm still enjoying Vanguard, The series has lost some of its appeal. I think one reason is because we were introduced to such a strong ensemble and now that ensemble is scattered.

The verdict is still out on the post-Destiny story line. (Part of that could be because my favorite part of the Destiny saga was what was happening with the Columbia crew.) I'm waiting to see what the Typhon Pact story brings to the table.

I didn't care for Before Dishonor, but I was very disappointed with Inception.

4. Any new recurring trends or themes in the last 12 months have you noticed? Anything you've liked or disliked about them?

I have to agree, the death and destruction, doom and gloom is a little prevalent. It'd be nice to read something not quite so intense where our heroes simply have to outwit their opponents.

5. What editorial decisions and changes from the last 12-15 months have you like or disliked?

Gotta go with the crowd here. Marco's absence is extremely noticeable.

Kirsten's Voyager books have been the highlight of the year.

6. What changes would you like to see in the Trek book line? Be it production choices or story editorial decisions?

I wouldn't mind a standalone. Now that I think about it, Troublesome Minds was one of my favorite books this past year.