I absolutely agree with this. There should have been more DS9 characters in the movie, it would have brought about some confrontation throughout I think if it was done right. Imagine this scene but it's Sisko that brings up the idea of destroying the ship, with Worf supporting him as well as Crusher. O'Brien would be on the planet helping there. Picard would stand his ground, go to his ready room but it would be Sisko that confronts him instead of Lily. I really like that scene with Picard and Lily so they'd have to find a way to keep it.
What you did or didn't like about FC....
- Thread starter Joel_Kirk
- Start date
Likes:
The theme tune.
James Cromwell, Alice Krige and Alfre Woodward.
The effects.
Dislikes:
The deflector dish scene.
The lack of cohesion between the stuff in space and the stuff on Earth.
Picard's rant to Lily in his ready room. Why people seem to love this so much completely escapes me. He says some pretty meaningless stuff and Lily promptly tells him to stop being such a moron. I liked Quark's version in DS9 The Dogs of War much better.
The way the threat level from the Borg seems to decrease as the film goes on.
Oh, and the Moby Dick references. There are other books, you know.
All in all it's a pretty entertaining film, I just don't like it nearly as much as many fans.
The theme tune.
James Cromwell, Alice Krige and Alfre Woodward.
The effects.
Dislikes:
The deflector dish scene.
The lack of cohesion between the stuff in space and the stuff on Earth.
Picard's rant to Lily in his ready room. Why people seem to love this so much completely escapes me. He says some pretty meaningless stuff and Lily promptly tells him to stop being such a moron. I liked Quark's version in DS9 The Dogs of War much better.
The way the threat level from the Borg seems to decrease as the film goes on.
Oh, and the Moby Dick references. There are other books, you know.
All in all it's a pretty entertaining film, I just don't like it nearly as much as many fans.
The Borg were magic in this one.
How else could they walk around in the vacuum of space without their organic parts -- i.e., skin and blood -- suffering any ill effects of absolute zero temperature and vacuum, and not need to breathe, either, in that vacuum?
That was total BS, and it ruined the entire movie for me. That went *way* beyond my threshold of willing suspension of disbelief.
Dammit, it actually makes me angry when I think of that whole sequence.
It seems that the TNG movies went on their own continuity, basically re-writing their own history. Also, choosing what to mention from the show.
Generations: The Farpoint mention. That was for the fans, but they used a reference that wasn't even in the episode.
Likes:
New sets, costumes
Score
The TNG crew by themselves for the first time on the big screen
The dark tone they set for the movie
Geordi and Riker getting a kick out of Cochrane saying 'Engage!', Picard's signature line.
Dislikes
Cochrane's portrayal
The pacing of the movie. The trailers led us to believe it was a huge action Trek film. After the crew beams down, it kind of drops until the third act
Picard going Tony Montana in the night club.
Picard not caring about a fallen comrade.
I had the idea to set the first 10 minutes in Montana. We get a little back story between Lily and Zefram, then, out of nowhere the Borg attack. A piece of debris is about to smash on Cochran, but is saved by Data, We then see the rest of the crew helping the camp.
Generations: The Farpoint mention. That was for the fans, but they used a reference that wasn't even in the episode.
Likes:
New sets, costumes
Score
The TNG crew by themselves for the first time on the big screen
The dark tone they set for the movie
Geordi and Riker getting a kick out of Cochrane saying 'Engage!', Picard's signature line.
Dislikes
Cochrane's portrayal
The pacing of the movie. The trailers led us to believe it was a huge action Trek film. After the crew beams down, it kind of drops until the third act
Picard going Tony Montana in the night club.
Picard not caring about a fallen comrade.
I had the idea to set the first 10 minutes in Montana. We get a little back story between Lily and Zefram, then, out of nowhere the Borg attack. A piece of debris is about to smash on Cochran, but is saved by Data, We then see the rest of the crew helping the camp.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
I didn't need 2 hours of cubes vs starships, but I also didn't want a short battle then fighting in corridors like some cheap direct to DVD movie.
From what I remember, in 1996, the FC space battle was the best thing ever since the space battle in Return of the Jedi.
Really liked the visuals and seeing the new E, I thought it looked gorgeous on the big screen. The premise for the story is ok, but, I would've liked to have seen some more of the back story on Earth. I think we should've seen some more of the Phoenix.
I always wondered how Cochrane, LaForge, and Riker got back to earth from the Phoenix. Did the command cockpit area come off like a capsule?
I always wondered how Cochrane, LaForge, and Riker got back to earth from the Phoenix. Did the command cockpit area come off like a capsule?
This speech made no sense.
They retreated in Q Who for obvious reasons. BOBW Starfleet never retreated and then they fought the Borg in this movie all the way to Sector 001.
WHEN DID THEY FALL BACK??? IT NEVER HAPPEN!
Stupid speech for a stupid movie.
This movie has everything wrong with it.
I hate this movie. There is pretty much nothing good in it.
NO ONE thought this. Everyone complained about how crappy the battle was when the movie first came out.
Oh no, my opinion against your facts. I've been pwnd.
The time-travelling hole didn't bother you, then? Or Picard's uniform apparently consisting of 14 layers of heavy clothing? Or Cochrane single-handedily inventing/building/testing the first warp-driven ship in an abandoned missile silo?
Show me everyone. I liked the battle. My friends liked the battle. I recall critics calling it one of the highlights of the film, citing it as "painfully brief."
If the battle is crappy, why do more than half the posters here wish for more of it? It makes no sense to want more of a crappy thing.
Well... they are space zombies..
I have read criticism of the battle being too brief and much of it only being heard over communications (i.e. Picard and the crew hearing reports in audio from on the bridge) rather than seen, but I think it was better that way. I get bored just looking at ships firing at each other too long, whether they are models or CGI. That was one of the most annoying things about "Revenge of the Sith" for me.
Looking at the countless ships exchanging endless firepower at each other, I felt like I was watching a crappy video game where you can never tell how many people are in the battle and who is shooting who. It got old really fast. I felt similarly about the space battles in the new "Star Trek" movie, which were made even more confusing by the fact that the Narada was so much bigger than the other ships it was fighting.
Nemesis has an hour-long fanboy wank space battle and it's sooooo inferior to the First Contact battle.
If you'll notice the real problem, however, it's Utopianvista's false claim that "NO ONE" liked it, and I'm living proof that sweeping generalizations and assumptions of opinion are itself false.
But you bring up another point. I too hate the battle in Nemesis. It was plodding, it was long, it really had no rhythm. In my opinion, and in the opinion of plenty in this thread, the FC battle was really short for what it was -- a fleet against a Cube. On the other hand, the battles in TWOK and TUC were in between those two battles, much longer than the FC battle, much shorter than the Nemesis battle, but much better paced, more exciting, full of tension than Nemesis. So what we're looking at isn't so much of size but to make sure that the battle is handled properly.
I suspect that one of the reasons the FC battle is considered too brief is because of two things: 1. The great intro from the beginning of the film to the Enterprise crew standing idly by hearing the fleet getting torn apart and 2. This battle was six years in the making, something people had wanted to see but only had a taste of in BOBW and Emissary. To wit, seeing only 2 minutes of any battle that supposedly lasts anywhere from hours to days will be disappointing, no matter how one frames it. Even DS9 gave us more fight scenes in similarly long battles, to quite satisfying results, because of how well they functioned within the story, which Nemesis can't really claim.
Liked:
-The Sovereign-class Enterprise. Looks awesome. Never really liked the Galaxy-class ships, especially in battle sequences. Just looks funky if it's flying around instead of just sitting there shooting like it usually was in TNG.
-The battle in the beginning. Very cool, still to this day.
-The Borg. Not the perfect villains, but still menacing, and most importantly, dangerous, even to the heroes.
-I liked how they portrayed Cochrane. Sure, a drunk (at least when he's under a ton of pressure - like when many of his people die all of a sudden, his life work gets messed up, and, oh yah, some future people come to tell you what you are about to do is one of the most important events in the history of Earth, no pressure or anything), but still a genius that gets things done (with a little push - I bet Lily kept him in line a lot). As for his portrayal in TOS, well, he probably had some time to reflect on things and become a good person
-The Borg queen. Interesting idea. But...
DISLIKES:
-How the Borg queen was portrayed: I think putting her in a slinky suit was pretty dumb. Yes, have it (even her) be THE collective, but a sexy zombie? I think just having her be the disembodied head with that mechanical spine would have been better. Still have the face of the Borg, with the needs for companionship, etc, but still being Borg - alien, mechanical. You could even have her jumping from drone to drone - imagine all the banter she and Data and Picard have, just to random drones with her voice (even a female drone, if you can tell the difference) - that would be kinda creepy even.
-The opening battle: Sure, don't have it being the whole movie, but more than a couple of minutes where the Enterprise comes in and suddenly it's all exploded. Double it, maybe. Still only a few minutes, but then we get some tension out of it, instead of the Enterprise just coming in and out just fine.
-The Borg time-travel thing: If the Borg have time travel, and their point is to assimilate Earth because it's a threat, then why not just go back in time at the Delta Quadrant, then travel to Earth in the past? I realize they didn't want to before, because Earth was too primitive (didn't I hear that the Kazon were too primitive for the Borg?), but a threat to your existence IS a threat, and you take care of it.
-The Sovereign-class Enterprise. Looks awesome. Never really liked the Galaxy-class ships, especially in battle sequences. Just looks funky if it's flying around instead of just sitting there shooting like it usually was in TNG.
-The battle in the beginning. Very cool, still to this day.
-The Borg. Not the perfect villains, but still menacing, and most importantly, dangerous, even to the heroes.
-I liked how they portrayed Cochrane. Sure, a drunk (at least when he's under a ton of pressure - like when many of his people die all of a sudden, his life work gets messed up, and, oh yah, some future people come to tell you what you are about to do is one of the most important events in the history of Earth, no pressure or anything), but still a genius that gets things done (with a little push - I bet Lily kept him in line a lot). As for his portrayal in TOS, well, he probably had some time to reflect on things and become a good person
-The Borg queen. Interesting idea. But...
DISLIKES:
-How the Borg queen was portrayed: I think putting her in a slinky suit was pretty dumb. Yes, have it (even her) be THE collective, but a sexy zombie? I think just having her be the disembodied head with that mechanical spine would have been better. Still have the face of the Borg, with the needs for companionship, etc, but still being Borg - alien, mechanical. You could even have her jumping from drone to drone - imagine all the banter she and Data and Picard have, just to random drones with her voice (even a female drone, if you can tell the difference) - that would be kinda creepy even.
-The opening battle: Sure, don't have it being the whole movie, but more than a couple of minutes where the Enterprise comes in and suddenly it's all exploded. Double it, maybe. Still only a few minutes, but then we get some tension out of it, instead of the Enterprise just coming in and out just fine.
-The Borg time-travel thing: If the Borg have time travel, and their point is to assimilate Earth because it's a threat, then why not just go back in time at the Delta Quadrant, then travel to Earth in the past? I realize they didn't want to before, because Earth was too primitive (didn't I hear that the Kazon were too primitive for the Borg?), but a threat to your existence IS a threat, and you take care of it.
Hmm, the sovereing class was fugly IMO. It looked ok from the front, but hideous from the back. I've said it before, but it looked more like a giant insect rather than a graceful ship like the Enterprise D. All the Enterprise D needed was:
1. A smaller saucer section
2. The appearance of more mass in the stardrive section. The AGT Enterprise did #2 admirably, the ship with the 3rd nacelle looks meaty, but everyone hated it because of the phaser cannon.
As for Cochrane, the version in FC looked like a bum to me, not as a great scientist capable of coming up with radical technology like a warp drive, all on his own. They could have portrayed a depressed Cochrane without making him look like a complete imbecil.
Initially they asked Tom Hanks to play Cochrane. I guess that would have made for a whole different portrayal of the character.
