ST09 critics, why don't you like it?

[Warped9]

To put it bluntly: the evidence all over this film is that the thinking behind every aspect of it was juvenile. Even within the context of itself, its own universe, nothing in this film makes any sense whatsoever.

In your opinion. Others differ. And yes, I've seen the plethora of counter arguments. But let's be honest here, it's not about "logic" or other such bullshit that has you going on here. It's clear from your vendective that you hate this film, you WANT to hate this film and you've made it clear more than once that you also allow your opinion of this film to color the supporters of it, beyond reason.

You dress it up in logic and reason...but you fool no one, except your miniscule amen chorus.

No, it's clear that's what you want to believe because it makes you feel better and you can excuse yourself from having to make any reasonable counter arguments.

I recall when I saw the first images of the new batmobile for Batman Begins. My first reaction was Then I saw the film and how the new batmobile was utilized and I realized that the new design made perfect sense, more sense than anything I'd seen before in Batman. So here was something I was inclined to dislike, but the evidence onscreen illustrated that it actually worked better and so I changed my mind.

The basis of your argument with us is that you haven't any of substance. Why don't you have the guts to say you like the film even though it's ridiculous? That I could respect. You're also bugged because the film isn't universally embraced and that in your heart you know there's a lot fucked up about this thing. Ah, but your a real Trek fan, eh, and you're supposed to love it.

I've said numerous times that my criticism isn't that it's a reboot or even that it isn't closer to TOS. I was prepared to be proven wrong. And so it isn't my fault that I was right and NOTHING IN THIS FILM MAKES ANY SENSE WHATSOEVER!

 

[stonester1]

No, it's clear that's what you want to believe because it makes you feel better and you can excuse yourself from having to make any reasonable counter arguments.

No, it's true. And the evidence is the evolution of each and every conversation along these lines, especially the ones you are involved in.

To "feel better", all I have to do is read them. Good for a every time.

Wallow in that.

You don't bring substance. You bring your OPINION and call it "fact" and "logic". But you convince no one, again, except your miniscule chorus.

If your "facts" and "logic" are so solid, how come you have such a piss poor record of convincing anyone?

Couldn't be your sunny internet persona, could it?

Nah.

I have the nuts to like the film. ALOT. But I simply don't have the OPINION it's ridiculous.

You confuse your OPINIONS with facts. And until you resolve that dichotomy, you will continue to sound like an obsessed, sad fanboy.

 

[ST-One]

The ultimate excuse of "the mainstream don't know and don't care and so whatever goes is fine" is getting tiresome. It's just an excuse for bad writing and bad, lazy conceptual thing.

You don't come up with any cogent arguments to counter justified criticisms. All you can say is, "So what? It made money. We like it. Who cares?"

If you own Inglorious Bastards (the Tarentino film) on BluRay you'll hear in the extras that Tarentino wrote up all these backstories, all these explanations for the characters' motivations in the film. But he left them out of the film because they weren't necessary for the film to work.

It's the same with Star Trek.

As fans we care, and our opinion is just as valid as anyone's.

Or as invalid.
Yes, as fans we care. That's why those comics are out there.

To put it bluntly: the evidence all over this film is that the thinking behind every aspect of it was juvenile. Even within the context of itself, its own universe, nothing in this film makes any sense whatsoever.

Yes, yes it does.

 

[Warped9]

No, it's clear that's what you want to believe because it makes you feel better and you can excuse yourself from having to make any reasonable counter arguments.

No, it's true. And the evidence is the evolution of each and every conversation along these lines, especially the ones you are involved in.

To "feel better", all I have to do is read them. Good for a every time.

Wallow in that.

You don't bring substance. You bring your OPINION and call it "fact" and "logic". But you convince no one, again, except your miniscule chorus.

If your "facts" and "logic" are so solid, how come you have such a piss poor record of convincing anyone?

Couldn't be your sunny internet persona, could it?

Nah.

I'm never out to convince anyone of anything. And your every post clearly illustrates it would be a waste of time.

We illustrate something doesn't make sense. All you can say is, "It's your opinion." That's not an a counter argument. That's just hands covering your ears screaming, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah..."

I've had numerous kinds of debates like this with folks far more able at it than you appear to be. I may disagree with them, but I can respect them. Read their posts and learn something.

For me this film is nothing more than ENT revisited.

The ultimate excuse of "the mainstream don't know and don't care and so whatever goes is fine" is getting tiresome. It's just an excuse for bad writing and bad, lazy conceptual thing.

You don't come up with any cogent arguments to counter justified criticisms. All you can say is, "So what? It made money. We like it. Who cares?"

If you own Inglorious Bastards (the Tarentino film) on BluRay you'll hear in the extras that Tarentino wrote up all these backstories, all these explanations for the characters' motivations in the film. But he left them out of the film because they weren't necessary for the film to work.

It's the same with Star Trek.

As fans we care, and our opinion is just as valid as anyone's.

Or as invalid.
Yes, as fans we care. That's why those comics are out there.

To put it bluntly: the evidence all over this film is that the thinking behind every aspect of it was juvenile. Even within the context of itself, its own universe, nothing in this film makes any sense whatsoever.

Yes, yes it does.

And another one with nothing of substance to offer. Both of you should study Nerys Myk. He knows how to frame a counter argument.

 

[stonester1]

We illustrate something doesn't make sense. All you can say is, "It's your opinion." That's not an a counter argument. That's just hands covering your ears screaming, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah..."

No, because it is fact. These are your opinions.

I've had numerous kinds of debates like this with folks far more able at it than you appear to be. I may disagree with them, but I can respect them. Read their posts and learn something.

Do you really think your "respect" or lack thereof keeps me up at night?

Really?

For me this film is nothing more than ENT revisited.

And again, your opinion. And that chaps your ass.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Every time you open your mouth it gets funnier and affirms what I just said.

 

[stonester1]

^^ Every time you open your mouth it gets funnier and affirms what I just said.

I'm rubber, you're glue...

 

[ST-One]

No, it's clear that's what you want to believe because it makes you feel better and you can excuse yourself from having to make any reasonable counter arguments.

No, it's true. And the evidence is the evolution of each and every conversation along these lines, especially the ones you are involved in.

To "feel better", all I have to do is read them. Good for a every time.

Wallow in that.

You don't bring substance. You bring your OPINION and call it "fact" and "logic". But you convince no one, again, except your miniscule chorus.

If your "facts" and "logic" are so solid, how come you have such a piss poor record of convincing anyone?

Couldn't be your sunny internet persona, could it?

Nah.

I'm never out to convince anyone of anything. And your every post clearly illustrates it would be a waste of time.

We illustrate something doesn't make sense. All you can say is, "It's your opinion." That's not an a counter argument. That's just hands covering your ears screaming, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah..."

I've had numerous kinds of debates like this with folks far more able at it than you appear to be. I may disagree with them, but I can respect them. Read their posts and learn something.

For me this film is nothing more than ENT revisited.

If you own Inglorious Bastards (the Tarentino film) on BluRay you'll hear in the extras that Tarentino wrote up all these backstories, all these explanations for the characters' motivations in the film. But he left them out of the film because they weren't necessary for the film to work.

It's the same with Star Trek.



Or as invalid.
Yes, as fans we care. That's why those comics are out there.

To put it bluntly: the evidence all over this film is that the thinking behind every aspect of it was juvenile. Even within the context of itself, its own universe, nothing in this film makes any sense whatsoever.

Yes, yes it does.

And another one with nothing of substance to offer. Both of you should study Nerys Myk. He knows how to frame a counter argument.

You are turning into a joke.

 

[Warped9]

^^ You're already there. I can laugh at myself when need be. But all we get from you two are brief quips with no substance or real meaning. And your strongest argument is we're all haters and so whatever we say can be discounted.

That's funnier than anything I or others who've criticized this film could come up with.

I recall a saying my older brother used to use: I refuse to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You are turning into a joke.

Long ago. Long ago.

 

[stonester1]

I recall a saying my older brother used to use: I refuse to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Two things...

1. That saying is older than your older brother. So for a supposed witty guy, he's slow. Or you are, whatever.

2. Nobody cares.

And before you have the inevitable "witty" comback about how "I supposedly care because I responded", I'll just say, I'm having fun smacking around a troll who has finally shown his true colors.

 

[ST-One]

I recall a saying my older brother used to use: I refuse to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

That's really nice...

 

[I-Am-Zim]

I see several trolls. Warped9 ain't one of 'em.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I see several trolls. Warped9 ain't one of 'em.

Not surprisingly, you're mistaken again.

 

[stonester1]

You're also bugged because the film isn't universally embraced and that in your heart you know there's a lot fucked up about this thing. Ah, but your a real Trek fan, eh, and you're supposed to love it.

No, I'm really not. I'm not wrapped up in this "real fan" thing. No doubt in my mind you are a "real fan" of Star Trek. But we've known for years that our fandom has it's share of loonies who have lost perspective on things and usually, their minds.

I don't care if you love it or not. I DO care that you go on to mischaracterize thos who DO love the film. That to explain the OVERWHELMING love for the film that you don't get, there must be something WRONG WITH THEM.

Because, to make things make sense to you (and they must, MUST make sense), things have to be wrong with SOMEONE, and it sure isn't going to be you.

I've said numerous times that my criticism isn't that it's a reboot or even that it isn't closer to TOS.

So you've said.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

I see several trolls. Warped9 ain't one of 'em.

Not surprisingly, you're mistaken again.

There you go again, trying to pass your opinion off as fact. It's getting funnier all the time.

 

[stonester1]

I see several trolls. Warped9 ain't one of 'em.

Not surprisingly, you're mistaken again.

There you go again, trying to pass your opinion off as fact. It's getting funnier all the time.

Seems to be the way to do things around here.

 

[Warped9]

Dennis speaks with some authority. Because he's been a joke longer than anyone around here.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

Dennis speaks with some authority. Because he's been a joke longer than anyone around here.

No offense to Dennis, it is fun debating with you, but that was pretty funny.

 

[M'Sharak]

Not long ago, one poster approached one of the staff (formerly attached to this forum but currently modding another) with a question: how to go about having a closed debate thread between two people critical of the movie and two "pro-movie" people? That moderator put the question to me, and my reply was that I didn't see how it would really be workable; the board software doesn't support that sort of thread, as far as I'm aware, and the only way it could possibly have been done would be to have someone watching it 24 hours a day and deleting anything posted by anyone other than those four debaters. Not terribly practical, on an open forum, and better conducted in a blog-type environment.

And that was as far as it went.

But then this thread was posted by someone entirely unconnected to the first poster, ostensibly as a similar sort of "closed discussion in an open forum" (albeit without the courtesy of prior consultation as to whether such a thing would be at all practical.) It forgot what it was supposed to be before the end of the first page, naturally, but for a while, it remembered itself just often enough that it was left to be whatever it would be, and for some of that time it served its stated purpose reasonably well. For the last few pages, however, the thread seems to have forgotten that it was ever anything but a noisy fishing expedition, and so it is being brought to an end.

Whether you feel you caught your limit or not--and some of you, I suspect, may be well over--fishing season is over. Pack up your bait and tackle, pack up your trolling rigs and fancy lures (and for crying out loud, clean up all the damn empty beer cans, cigarette butts and litter) and head for home. This pond's closed.

There may be further announcements, but that is still under consideration at this time.