ST09 critics, why don't you like it?

[Warped9]

^^ You're right that the term "real fan" is overstating things. What is a "real fan?" To be a real fan do you have to like Trek in all its incarnations? If so then that leaves a lot of people out. I know of several people who like only certain series or films and still liked Abrams' film.

And candidly I don't know anyone that likes Trek in all its incarnations.

 

[stonester1]

^^ You're right that the term "real fan" is overstating things. What is a "real fan?" To be a real fan do you have to like Trek in all its incarnations? If so then that leaves a lot of people out. I know of several people who like only certain series or films and still liked Abrams' film.

And candidly I don't know anyone that likes Trek in all its incarnations.

Ok, fair enough, I'm still not a fan of the animated series. I used to be a Voyager and Enterprise hater, but I've changed my mind on that issue.

Of course you don't HAVE to be a fan of all the incarnation, nor did I imply that in my previous post. My point was and is that no one here can presume to speak for the "real fans".

No one.

 

[John200]

Well keep in mind that this movie was made for the ADHD generation.

It's a shame people have no attention span anymore.

 

[ST-One]

But what I dislike about it most is that some Star Trek movie was going to get made, anyway, and maybe there were some things being pitched worthy of the Star Trek brand that still could have been profitable for the studio. And now that's on hold for the next few years, as well.

That is probably the dumbest thing I've read in this thread.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Note: this thread appears to be more popular than the one designated for those who like the film. Hmmm...

Because people who like the film are posting here, but those who dislike it aren't posting in the like thread.

Yeah, it's called respecting the thread's intent, something the supporters don't seem to understand in this thread. They feel compelled to attack and shout down any opposing viewpoint because they know in their heart that many of the criticisms have weight.

It's almost akin to opposing universal health care.

I agree, I wish the supporters had stayed out of the thread. Let it be a place for people who didn't like it vent. I tried to but got sucked in anyway. Sorry about that.

I'd have more respect for them if they'd just say,"It was a shitty film, but I liked it anyway as a guilty pleasure." Actually I've come across a few posts that have said essentially that and I haven't seen any of those posters coming in here to stir up trouble.

I don't think of it as a shitty film or a guilty pleasure. That my honest opinion.

But it's the more pretentious windbags that really annoy me.

A few of those on your side as well.

 

[Warped9]

But it's the more pretentious windbags that really annoy me.

A few of those on your side as well.

True.

 

[Set Harth]

At this point, the only things about this film that bother me are several plot holes - namely Nero's trip to Earth and Spock's failure to warn Earth/Starfleet of his arrival
( IIRC a poster had said that the novel said something about the Sulu-delay thing ).
Other than the above, I don't really have any problems with it.
( Okay, stranding Kirk on a hostile planet without a weapon was just cruel. )

 

[Devon]

At this point, the only things about this film that bother me are several plot holes - namely Nero's trip to Earth and Spock's failure to warn Earth/Starfleet of his arrival

What were the plot holes with these? Spock didn't have any way of notifying Starfleet of his arrival.

 

[Set Harth]

Spock didn't have any way of notifying Starfleet of his arrival.

He could have beamed down to Delta Vega or any other place along the way and used their equipment.

As for the Nero-Earth thing, I'm not saying it's insurmountable, just that it's more work for the viewer in writing things into the film.

 

[ST-One]

Spock didn't have any way of notifying Starfleet of his arrival.

He could have beamed down to Delta Vega or any other place along the way and used their equipment.

How?
He was captured by Nero the minute he arrived.

 

[Devon]

He could have beamed down to Delta Vega or any other place along the way and used their equipment.

Nero met him at the time portal entrance and took him hostage immediately, remember? He wasn't going anywhere on his own...

 

[Set Harth]

I meant the other Spock, after Vulcan's destruction. But the same question applies to Spock Prime as well. Why wouldn't he contact Starfleet from the Delta Vega outpost? Should we assume that he did, even though Earth seemed unprepared for Nero's arrival? And what does Nero's getting the "defense codes" from Pike have to do with this?

 

[Withers]

what I dislike about it most is that some Star Trek movie was going to get made, anyway, and maybe there were some things being pitched worthy of the Star Trek brand that still could have been profitable for the studio. And now that's on hold for the next few

Another Star Trek movie was going to be made... eventually. But they had four chances to get it right and completely botched the last two (even the hardliners weren't all that impressed with Nemesis and Insurrection was a complete commercial failure.)

I'm not sure I'd want to see what they had in store (if anything) post Nemesis with the same mentality at the helm. Whether or not what we got was exactly on point is beside the point; the franchise needed something and what happened was they made money and drew in fans rather than losing money and alienating people.

I'm leery of "Mission Accomplished" banners but...

-Withers-​

 

[Devon]

Why wouldn't he contact Starfleet from the Delta Vega outpost? Should we assume that he did,

Spock Prime had a 14 KM walk! He was probably on Delta Vega for only 10 minutes or so when Kirk ran into him.

even though Earth seemed unprepared for Nero's arrival?

You just answered your question....

And what does Nero's getting the "defense codes" from Pike have to do with this?

Nero wants Earth's defense codes, forces them out of Pike, Earth is defenseless.

=====

I'm not sure I'd want to see what they had in store (if anything) post Nemesis with the same mentality at the helm. Whether or not what we got was exactly on point is beside the point; the franchise needed something and what happened was they made money and drew in fans rather than losing money and alienating people.

There was an interview Brent Spiner gave, whether or not he was telling the truth is another story, in which he said that their plans for the next film was going to involve ALL of the past movie villiains and using them to fight someone (if I recall, correctly.) I thought it sounded like a terrible idea personally.

 

[ST-One]

I meant the other Spock, after Vulcan's destruction. But the same question applies to Spock Prime as well. Why wouldn't he contact Starfleet from the Delta Vega outpost? Should we assume that he did, even though Earth seemed unprepared for Nero's arrival? And what does Nero's getting the "defense codes" from Pike have to do with this?

Well, we don't know if either Spock contacted Earth. But even if they did; since the fleet was engaged in the Laurentian system and the remaining ships were destroyed in orbit Vulcan the Enterprise was, again, the 'only ship in the sector'.

The 'defence codes' could perhaps shut down some of the planetary defences of Earth?

 

[Set Harth]

Spock Prime had a 14 KM walk! He was probably on Delta Vega for only 10 minutes or so when Kirk ran into him.

I'm talking about after he got there.

Nero wants Earth's defense codes, forces them out of Pike, Earth is defenseless.

But still apparently not alerted to the danger until the drill is in operation.

 

[Devon]

I'm talking about after he got there.

You're not being very clear, sorry. So assuming you mean Spock Prime, and assuming you mean when they are in the building, it's probably safe to assume that Kirk told Spock that the Enterprise was already meeting up with the rest of the fleet and had assumed young Spock was already contacting Starfleet. Plus since Spock prime was wanting to keep himself on the down low, he probably felt it best not to contact Starfleet.

But still apparently not alerted to the danger until the drill is in operation.

They could be alerted all the want, but without their defenses what can they do?

 

[Set Harth]

it's probably safe to assume that Kirk told Spock that the Enterprise was already meeting up with the rest of the fleet and had assumed young Spock was already contacting Starfleet. Plus since Spock prime was wanting to keep himself on the down low, he probably felt it best not to contact Starfleet.

Even if we assume that Spock Prime put staying on the down low above warning Earth, that still leaves Quinto Spock.

but without their defenses what can they do

Start evacuating.

 

[Withers]

There was an interview Brent Spiner gave, whether or not he was telling the truth is another story, in which he said that their plans for the next film was going to involve ALL of the past movie villiains and using them to fight someone (if I recall, correctly.) I thought it sounded like a terrible idea personally.

Yeah, see, that's the crap I'm talking about. Nemesis started down the road of "Dear sweet lord, we have to have a film succeed at all costs!" and I think that air of desperation would have seeped into successive films... and I for one have no desire to see Trek turn into the dad who doesn't really have a job anymore but still shows up at the office.

-Withers-​

 

[Shazam!]

I think that air of desperation would have seeped into successive films....

It did.