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major plot hole about lightning storms in space

;) Yes I meant vial. Just woke up...
No worries :p

Now think of a 150+ year old elderly Vulcan on the return mission after setting off a bang that could literally re-arrange the universe. People are going to want the secret to the weapon. That was one of the Vulcan concerns in Countdown.

I could see the Romulans plotting to catch the Jellyfish if it survived the mission.

That would be in character for a lot of the empires.

It may of been something the Federation had accounted for and had a task force waiting to swoop in or was following up to stop any ships making off with the Red Matter, and hoping or didn't expect that no one was actually going to be stupid enough to attack while the red matter was doing it's thing like Nero did.
 
I just take it as Spock coming through in the Vulcan system or nearby so they picked it up on sensors. The black hole could of stayed open for a while before closing and am sure that thing being near Vulcan made them panic and then Nero attacks not too long later.
 
Spock went on the mission because he's a "Big Damn Hero". Kirk found Spock on Delta Vega (something that would NEVER happen in a million years to "normal" people) because you can't create a universe, alternate or not, where these two guys won't meet up and save it. It's epic, romantic storytelling at its best. These aren't mundane, ordinary people who's lives unfold in a mundane, ordinary way. If I want to see that I can look in the mirror. Stuff like this happens to them because they are who they are: larger than life heroes, not normal folks.
 
Spock went on the mission because he's a "Big Damn Hero". Kirk found Spock on Delta Vega (something that would NEVER happen in a million years to "normal" people) because you can't create a universe, alternate or not, where these two guys won't meet up and save it. It's epic, romantic storytelling at its best. These aren't mundane, ordinary people who's lives unfold in a mundane, ordinary way. If I want to see that I can look in the mirror. Stuff like this happens to them because they are who they are: larger than life heroes, not normal folks.

That's a very good way to look at it.

J.
 
Spock went on the mission because he's a "Big Damn Hero". Kirk found Spock on Delta Vega (something that would NEVER happen in a million years to "normal" people) because you can't create a universe, alternate or not, where these two guys won't meet up and save it. It's epic, romantic storytelling at its best. These aren't mundane, ordinary people who's lives unfold in a mundane, ordinary way. If I want to see that I can look in the mirror. Stuff like this happens to them because they are who they are: larger than life heroes, not normal folks.

That's a very good way to look at it.

J.

Thanks! :)
 
Here's how the meeting on Delta Vega happened.

Both the Narada and the Enterprise left the Vulcan system around the same time, in the same trajectory -- toward Earth. Indeed, the Enterprise was following the Narada.

Nero plainly said he wanted Spock alive and suffering; so he dropped him off on the closest planet on their way out, near the Starfleet outpost, so he would be sure to survive. Spock did the same thing to Kirk.

They were both dropped off near the outpost. And clearly, they both had gear. Spock had a very nice arctic coat; it was a no brainer they had some simple technology to find shelter, like the cave -- which was on both their ways to the outpost.
 
Here's how the meeting on Delta Vega happened.

Both the Narada and the Enterprise left the Vulcan system around the same time, in the same trajectory -- toward Earth. Indeed, the Enterprise was following the Narada.

Nero plainly said he wanted Spock alive and suffering; so he dropped him off on the closest planet on their way out, near the Starfleet outpost, so he would be sure to survive. Spock did the same thing to Kirk.

They were both dropped off near the outpost. And clearly, they both had gear. Spock had a very nice arctic coat; it was a no brainer they had some simple technology to find shelter, like the cave -- which was on both their ways to the outpost.

Which begs the question: Why drop Spock off at all? Was a single one-hundred fifty plus year old Vulcan too much for Nero and his cronies to keep an eye on?
 
Which begs the question: Why drop Spock off at all? Was a single one-hundred fifty plus year old Vulcan too much for Nero and his cronies to keep an eye on?

Not really. They wanted him to suffer, to be completely and utterly helpless as he watches his home be destroyed. I don't think they had any plans to go back and get him either. I think the plan was just to let him die on that frozen ball of rock.

J.
 
Which begs the question: Why drop Spock off at all? Was a single one-hundred fifty plus year old Vulcan too much for Nero and his cronies to keep an eye on?

Not really. They wanted him to suffer, to be completely and utterly helpless as he watches his home be destroyed. I don't think they had any plans to go back and get him either. I think the plan was just to let him die on that frozen ball of rock.

J.

Why waste the time though? Seems like you could make the case that they could make him suffer just as effectively on the Narada. And make him watch first hand the destruction of Vulcan and Earth.
 
No, Nero intended for him to live and suffer as he himself had.

There's no reason Nero would keep Spock around. He dropped him off on Delta Vega, close to Vulcan, so he could see the destruction first hand with his own eyes.
 
No, Nero intended for him to live and suffer as he himself had.

There's no reason Nero would keep Spock around. He dropped him off on Delta Vega, close to Vulcan, so he could see the destruction first hand with his own eyes.

Oh god! You mentioned Delta Vega. That just opens a whole other can of worms! :guffaw:
 
I mentioned Delta Vega earlier; and that's a moldy, old chestnut around here. It's not the same Delta Vega.

As I've pointed out before, there are at least two Las Vegases in the U.S. alone, not to mention how many others there probably are in Latin countries. Multiple Delta Vegas are not a problem.
 
Which begs the question: Why drop Spock off at all? Was a single one-hundred fifty plus year old Vulcan too much for Nero and his cronies to keep an eye on?

Not really. They wanted him to suffer, to be completely and utterly helpless as he watches his home be destroyed. I don't think they had any plans to go back and get him either. I think the plan was just to let him die on that frozen ball of rock.

J.

Why waste the time though? Seems like you could make the case that they could make him suffer just as effectively on the Narada. And make him watch first hand the destruction of Vulcan and Earth.

"Wasting time" never seemed to be an issue with Nero. In fact, he went about things at his own pace. Plus, let's face it, the guy had snapped. He wasn't thinking clearly.

J.
 
Not really. They wanted him to suffer, to be completely and utterly helpless as he watches his home be destroyed. I don't think they had any plans to go back and get him either. I think the plan was just to let him die on that frozen ball of rock.

J.

Why waste the time though? Seems like you could make the case that they could make him suffer just as effectively on the Narada. And make him watch first hand the destruction of Vulcan and Earth.

"Wasting time" never seemed to be an issue with Nero. In fact, he went about things at his own pace. Plus, let's face it, the guy had snapped. He wasn't thinking clearly.

J.

True.
 
Hey Guys, I signed up specifically to set this thing straight. I haven't read all of the board so I'm not sure if it was figured out yet,

The first lightning storm in space was Nero showing up. Nero's plan was to wait for Spock and force him to watch the destruction of his planet. So, Spock shows up 25 years later and Nero nabs him and puts him on Delta Vega so Spock can see the destruction of Vulcan, but not interfere with Nero's plans. That is all Nero needed was for mr smarty Spock to mess with his plans. That is why the destruction of Vulcan followed immediatly after the second lightning storm.

Any Questions?
 
Not to mention that Nero didn't even have the red matter until Spock showed up. It was Spocks ship that was carrying it.
 
While this may not quite technically be a plot hole, since you can piece together a sequence of events (as some posters here have done), it definitely is a really mind-boggling series of contrivances and implausibilities. We're asked to believe:

  • That a trained Starfleet officer on the Kelvin would describe a spacetime anomaly as a "lightning storm in space," a singularly unscientific and frankly awkward phrase that doesn't even really match the visuals
  • That this casual phrase would be noted and prominently mentioned by Chris Pike when he wrote his dissertation about the event
  • That a completely different person observing a spacetime anomaly in a completely different place 25 years later would describe it using that same unlikely phrase, as reported by Chekov
  • That Chekov would bother to report this at all, despite the fact that it happened in the Neutral Zone, which is nowhere near their destination, the planet Vulcan
  • That the similarity in phrasing would be noticed by a man who was busy being born at the time of the first event and who only read about it in the abovementioned dissertation (Kirk), but not remembered by the man who wrote that dissertation (Pike)
  • That the two events thus described would actually turn out to be related (in a universe that we know is chock-full of spacetime anomalies)
  • That Kirk would connect these similarly-phrased anomalies to a battle on the edge of Klingon space, which is in yet another unrelated location
  • That by making these connections Kirk was able to prepare the Enterprise to face an impending threat, even though he was technically wrong as the second "storm" wasn't actually caused by the ship posing the threat (the Narada) but by OldSpock's arrival in the Jellyfish
(This is just one string of unexplained coincidences, of course. There are plenty of other unrelated but equally unlikely ones, such as:

  • That Nero's crew was somehow able to calculate the exact time and place of OldSpock's arrival, despite the highly random nature of their mutual departure
  • That Nero would drop off OldSpock within walking distance of a Federation outpost, rather than just having him watch the destruction from the Narada
  • That Kirk was ejected from the Enterprise near that same outpost
  • That Montgomery Scott was in that outpost
  • That OldSpock happened to be carrying previously unknown technology that conveniently allowed Scott to use ordinary transporters to send himself and Kirk back to a ship in warp (seriously, wouldn't it have been simpler just to use the subspace radio in the outpost to, y'know, call the Enterprise and say "hey, we have crucial information that can help defeat the Narada"?)
  • That Captain Pike happened to have personally memorized the subspace frequencies for Earth's "border protection grids"
  • That Nero knew Pike would have this knowledge
...oh, hell, I could go on all night.)

I try not to think about it :D
Yeah, that would seem to be the approach this movie demands.

Yes.
You can always use your imaginations to fill some gaps that a filmmaker does not need to waste precious time on, on a 2 hour movie.
But that also kind of requires some good faith and not being bent on finding problems in everything.
I went into the theater in good faith, hoping to enjoy this film.

However, we're not just talking about "some gaps." We're talking about almost every major story beat being outrageously implausible.

And a two-hour movie provides plenty of time for writers to construct a story that makes sense. That's not a waste of time, it's what they're being paid for. It's cheap and shoddy writing to leave that job to the audience, especially when the puzzle-pieces you give them fit together so badly.
 
Here's how the meeting on Delta Vega happened.

Both the Narada and the Enterprise left the Vulcan system around the same time, in the same trajectory -- toward Earth. Indeed, the Enterprise was following the Narada.

Actually, while the Narada headed for Earth, the Enterprise set a course for the Laurentian sector, wherever the hell that is. It wasn't until Kirk beamed back aboard the Enterprise a couple hours later that they changed course to follow Nero (I've discussed the problems this creates elsewhere).
 
Chekov: May I have your attention please?
At 22:00, telemetry detected an anomaly in the neutral zone.
What appeared to be a lightning storm in space.
That's one message -- one event. The neutral zone is not near Vulcan, and the "lightning storm in space" is the outlet of the wormhole spitting out Spock, as Narada sits waiting to capture him (and the Jellyfish ship with its red matter, which Nero needs in order to destroy Vulcan.)
Well, there's a plot hole. Why the heck would you broadcast something like that when it's not near Vulcan and it has no relevance to the mission at hand? Like this movie wasn't swimming in convenience enough. Why not broadcast what the weather is like in the Mutara Nebula while you're at it? I hear there's lightning storm effects in there. If there's one thing worse than a bad plot hole, it's bad writing. It's almost as bad as Kirk's line to Prime Spock "You went back in time, changed all our lives."
 
Why did Spock expel Kirk into the snowy wastes using a escape pod when he could have just beamed him to the brig on the outpost? This would have saved wasting our time on a tiresome trek through the snow just to showcase a cgi monster, it would remove the necessity to 'stumble' across Spock in a cave, or the illogic of Spock staying in the cave with a campfire, it removes the need to explain (or not) why the starfleet outpost didn't monitor the distress beacon from the lifepod and just beam Kirk to the outpost, and Spock's presence at the outpost would be reason enough plotwise to persuade Scotty to release Kirk from the brig. Further, if Spock had been spending time with Scotty working on adjustments to the transporters in the hope of beaming back onto the Narada this would explain in part how the transporters were able to perform waaay beyond their pe-established range while being used on the Enterprise at closer range because it didn't have the whole trek through the snow time frame to get further away.
 
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