Mould vs. Fungus.
In either case you're a fool not to wear flipflops in the communal shower.
i don't know how i feel about chakotay...
- Thread starter data_lover
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Mould vs. Fungus.
In either case you're a fool not to wear flipflops in the communal shower.
What about Scorpion? Or the Omega Directive? In both eps, Chakotay convinced Janeway to act. Riker seldom did anything like this.
Chakotay was made the XO since he had significant Starfleet experience, and also as an attempt to rehabilitate the Maquis crew. B'Elanna was also ex-Starfleet, but became Chief Engineer since she was the most capable engineer on the ship.
If every suggestion by the XO was followed, that would mean that the Captain was "wrong" every time.
Indolover has a point re: the XO is to be a sounding board, someone to make you reconsider your course of action. You may still feel you are right once you've reconsidered it, but that doesn't mean the experience of questioning was wrong.
Withers example from "Equinox" is a perfect example of this process. Chakotay came up with a solution, one he didn't like but felt honor bound to broach. Split the crew up and send them separately towards their goal. At that stage in her "Year of Hell", Janeway wasn't ready to consider it. But after more attacks, after more deaths and the kidnapping of her XO and Helmsman, she decided to finally go with his suggestion.
JANEWAY: Each of you has done their best, but determination alone isn't going to hold this ship together. It's time we faced reality. We've lost nine decks, more than half the ship has been destroyed. Life support is nearly gone. Voyager can no longer sustain it's crew. I promised myself that I would never give this order, that I would never break up this family, but asking you to stay would be asking you to die. You will proceed to the escape pods and evacuate this vessel. Set your course for the alpha quadrant. Along the way, try to find allies, secure faster ships if you can, anything to get home. The senior staff and I will remain on board as long as possible. We will try somehow to rescue Tom and Chakotay. The escape pods are equipped with subspace beacons. That's how we'll keep track of you. When we find each other again, and we will, we will find each other again, I expect all of you to be in one piece with some interesting stories to tell. Good luck.
Indolover has a point re: the XO is to be a sounding board, someone to make you reconsider your course of action. You may still feel you are right once you've reconsidered it, but that doesn't mean the experience of questioning was wrong.
Withers example from "Equinox" is a perfect example of this process. Chakotay came up with a solution, one he didn't like but felt honor bound to broach. Split the crew up and send them separately towards their goal. At that stage in her "Year of Hell", Janeway wasn't ready to consider it. But after more attacks, after more deaths and the kidnapping of her XO and Helmsman, she decided to finally go with his suggestion.
JANEWAY: Each of you has done their best, but determination alone isn't going to hold this ship together. It's time we faced reality. We've lost nine decks, more than half the ship has been destroyed. Life support is nearly gone. Voyager can no longer sustain it's crew. I promised myself that I would never give this order, that I would never break up this family, but asking you to stay would be asking you to die. You will proceed to the escape pods and evacuate this vessel. Set your course for the alpha quadrant. Along the way, try to find allies, secure faster ships if you can, anything to get home. The senior staff and I will remain on board as long as possible. We will try somehow to rescue Tom and Chakotay. The escape pods are equipped with subspace beacons. That's how we'll keep track of you. When we find each other again, and we will, we will find each other again, I expect all of you to be in one piece with some interesting stories to tell. Good luck.
I'm still working on watching Voyager all the way through, so my opinion might change later, but right now I just feel sorry for Chakotay. As others have mentioned, his character could have been made to be complex and interesting, but so far, all I've seen is him following Janeway around like a puppy dog.
I'll share the remark my husband made about Chakotay when we were watching "Unity": "How did Chakotay go from a tough guy rebel leader to a dude with a Starfleet stick up his ass?"
I'll share the remark my husband made about Chakotay when we were watching "Unity": "How did Chakotay go from a tough guy rebel leader to a dude with a Starfleet stick up his ass?"
Withers
Captain
When was the ever an example of such an epic crisis going on where Picard was in his ready room rending his garments? He didn't have to be spurred to action by his first officer. The fact doesn't speak to Chakotay being better at the job than Riker. If anything it speaks to Janeway (obviously) being a less experienced Captain than Picard. That's not to mention that in both examples all Chakotay did was shout at her in the hushed voice of a parent in public, embarrassed by the behavior of their child.
See, I don't think she took the suggestion because it was Chakotays but because if she didn't the ship would eventually kill them all. She as good as declares it a lost cause in the very first part of the speech you quoted.
She didn't go with it because it was such a good idea. She went with it because there wasn't another option. Using that as evidence of Chakotay being good at his jobs means that all it really requires is a desire to remain living.
-Withers-
I guess we'll just have to agree that somethings are in the eye of the beholder.
Chakotay get's into womyn's pants by being so nice and invisible and accommodating that the womyn in his life become so unthreatened by his machismo that eventually they mistake him for a blanket.
He was never going to stand up to Janeway proper until he really finally believed that he didn't have a shot with her... But then when his kimlike optimism can perpetuate the potentiality for their love affair that it's not even going to kick start when they're the only two people left standing on a planet.
He was never going to stand up to Janeway proper until he really finally believed that he didn't have a shot with her... But then when his kimlike optimism can perpetuate the potentiality for their love affair that it's not even going to kick start when they're the only two people left standing on a planet.
Picard had immense command experience, and was the CO of Starfleet's flagship. Nevertheless, Picard was only human and not a God. He thus was prone to error, no matter how wise as a character he was.
Ghostbusters logic insists that Picard is a god, especially since the tribal vengeance god who murdered Laura Palmer is at least as badass as Zule.
Withers
Captain
That's... not in dispute. All I was pointing out was the fact that Picard didn't need to be spurred to action the way Janeway did. Thus, Riker didn't have to "yell" at Picard like that but that doesn't mean he was somehow a weaker first officer. It just means Janeway needed more coaching than Picard did (which is to be expected; she was a brand new Captain of a brand new ship and Picard... ya know, wasn't.)
-Withers-
If you can remember right back to the beginning... Riker got the job because Picard wanted someone who would yell at him, something about how in his last assignment, Riker wouldn't let his Captain go on an away mission because it was too dangerous.
I don't believe at the time that the people writing for the show knew exactly how many more completely vital years Pat had in him as a man of action.
I don't believe at the time that the people writing for the show knew exactly how many more completely vital years Pat had in him as a man of action.
he also wanted someone to help him not come off as an ass to children which made me giggle.
But, we still we got to experience the utter joy that was "Captan Picard Day".
uck, just got through "tattoo" - an entire episode dedicated to just how indian chakotay is and how, even in the delta quadrant, this is relevant. i sincerely hope this isn't a recurring episode theme, it's tedious already.
I already mentioned the one thing I enjoyed about that ep. Wink Wink nudge nudge.
Unfortunately, his ancestry is the only thing they ever emphasize about Chakotay. When that side of him is ignored, he all but disappears.
I know how I feel about Chakotay!! And the fact is that I really adored him from the first moment I saw him in the episode Caretaker. But I liked the angrier Chakotay..you know..the one who wanted to kill the Cardassians from taking over his home planet. 
But I actually liked him because of his passive/aggressiveness. He was a damn good first officer and I loved watching him walk across the bridge every week! 
But you either love or hate Chakotay..there's no real in-between on that one.
But I actually liked him because of his passive/aggressiveness. He was a damn good first officer and I loved watching him walk across the bridge every week! But you either love or hate Chakotay..there's no real in-between on that one.
I know how I feel about Chakotay!! And the fact is that I really adored him from the first moment I saw him in the episode Caretaker. But I liked the angrier Chakotay..you know..the one who wanted to kill the Cardassians from taking over his home planet.
I dunno, there is for me. I don't love him, but I don't really hate him. I mean, I hate Neelix. Chakotay isn't that bad when he's not busy going HEY LOOK I'M AN OFFENSIVE STEREOTYPE. He's just...boring to me.