Was Sloan a sociopath?

[Xerxes1979]

DSM-IV Definition

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases.
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.
D. Repeated assaults on others.
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.
F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.

2. At least eighteen years in age.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

 

[John200]

Kinda have to be in his line of work.

 

[Rush Limborg]

If he is, he's a very self-aware sociopath.

Remember all his conversations with Bashir. He is all too aware of, and accepting of, the fact that he is betraying and abandoning the values and priciples he believes in, for the sake of protecting them.

Sloan knows exactly what he is--a traitor/protector, a criminal/lawman--and does not pretend to be anything else. In short, he's the embodiment of an "antihero"--a villain/hero, a "good bad guy". Maybe that makes him the gultiest of all men...maybe the noblest.

But either way, as far as he's concerned, he is what he has to be. And for him, it's worth it.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I don't think he's a sociopath. Not any more than anyone in a super-secret spy network would be, anyway.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I'd say he clearly meets those requirements. However, like Rush said, he's a self-aware sociopath who accepts that about himself. I also see him more as an anti-hero.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Commencing: Psycological Analysis of Luther Sloan, Director of Division Seven, Section 31.

Purpose of this Analysis: To establish the presence, or lack therof, of sociopathic tendencies in said agent.



Well...let's look at the criteriea one by one:

DSM-IV Definition

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture.

Unsure of this one. Sloan does regard the rules and principles of the UFP--or at least, he is very aware of the morality of his actions, or lack therof. As evidence of this, recall his speech to Bashir at the end of "Inter Arna...". He notes that the doctor is a man of conscience, who "can sleep at night".

There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules.

Well, he can get along with others quite well, frankly--it's neccesary for his work as a super-spy, to blend in and interact nicely with others, so as to gain info.

As for inability to abide by society's standarsds, I'll give him this one--but it's not limited to "sociopaths", per se. I often find it difficult to interact normally with people and society, but I'm no sociopath. I just have Asperger's Syndrome.

Moving right along....

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture...

I'd say so--but I'm unsure about the age thing. The moment in "Extreme Measures" with his wife and family strongly implies that Sloan lived a very normal life before he joined the Bureau.

...as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.

Most definitely! Symptom 1-A, applies to the subject.

B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases.

I'd say so--except for the "pleasure or profit" thing. Though Sloan does often have a calm, positive attitude, he's almost always serious and sober about his work. But he does certainly tend to con, lie, and use aliases (albiet, that comes with the job).

Symptom 1-B applies. Two down for Criteria 1, at least one more to go.

C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.

Sorry. Don't think so. He's a tactical genius, who was able to manipulate the genetically-enhanced super-genius Bashir.

Symptom 1-C does not apply.

D. Repeated assaults on others.

Nope. One only needs to look at one of the eps he's in to establish that Luther Sloan does not engage in acts so childish as physical assult.

Symptom 1-D does not apply.

E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.

Well, he may be willing to put his and other's lives as risk, but again, it's calculated and planned. Reckless? Hardly.

Symptom 1-E does not apply.

F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.

Definitely not! Whatever Sloan is, incompetent certainly isn't one of them!

Symptom 1-F does not apply. Still waiting for that last one symptom for Criteria 1 to apply.

G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.

Okay. I should think so. He does give the "ends justify means" speech on a regular basis--so this is relevent to him.

Symptom 1-G--and therefore, Criteria 1, applies.

2. At least eighteen years in age.

Ah-hem. Last time I checked...Sloan's certainly older than 18. Criteria 2 applies.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

Again, I seriously doubt he was so "disordered" before he joined the Bureau. The jury's still out on this one.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

That we can agree on. The man is not nutso. Criteria 4 applies.

Final Score: 3 out of 4.


Final Conclusion:

If he is a sociopath, it probably isn't the result of a mental disorder. Sociopaths, for the most part, aren't too self-aware--and again, there are serious doubts he was so creepy at 15.

So...perhaps allowing for Sloan's self-awareness helps explain any oddities in the general description. He's a self-made sociopath--consciously becoming one out of, he believes, neccesity--for the good of the Federation

 

[Kelthaz]

James Bond fits the criteria you posted as well as Sloan does. I'm sure a lot of spies do.

Sloan was a man who believed the ends justified the means and was willing to do whatever it took to protect the Federation. That does not make a man a sociopath. It makes him A Well Intentioned Extremist.

 

[DevilEyes]

I agree with Rush and Kelthaz, Sloan is definitely not a sociopath, as a read through the symptoms clearly demonstrates. I think that word has been thrown around too often these days, and many times it seems that people pretty much use it as a synonym for 'unethical person'.Believing that 'end justifies means' and doing ruthless things does not necessarily make one a sociopath.

I'm confused about the poll, what question are we supposed to answer with 'yes' or 'no'? Is Sloan a sociopath, or Can an individual rationalize murder without a framework of ethics?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If Section 31 were a person, *it* would clearly be a sociopath, but Sloan himself is not.

 

[Withers]

I also don't think his behavior distinguishes him as a sociopath any more than that same behavior does for other characters who are forced to make a break with what is commonly considered "ethical" in the name of the greater good.

The only difference is that Sloan seeks out those sorts of decisions and makes them without the introspection that characters like Archer, Sisko, Bashir, Janeway, and Picard have whenever there is a situation in which they either have to "do the right thing" or "break the rules and save everybody." The aforementioned would just as soon never have to make a conscious decision to strand a crew 3 years from home, drag Romulans into a war needlessly, alter history, spy on ally, or murder a sentient being for the sake of protecting a crew. Sloan just as soon would.


-Withers-​

 

[Rush Limborg]

I'm confused about the poll, what question are we supposed to answer with 'yes' or 'no'? Is Sloan a sociopath, or Can an individual rationalize murder without a framework of ethics?

I'm also confused. What does the queston mean, anyway--"Can an individual rationalize murder without a framework of ethics"?

 

[Rush Limborg]

I also don't think his behavior distinguishes him as a sociopath any more than that same behavior does for other characters who are forced to make a break with what is commonly considered "ethical" in the name of the greater good.​

The only difference is that Sloan seeks out those sorts of decisions and makes them without the introspection that characters like Archer, Sisko, Bashir, Janeway, and Picard have whenever there is a situation in which they either have to "do the right thing" or "break the rules and save everybody." The aforementioned would just as soon never have to make a conscious decision to strand a crew 3 years from home, drag Romulans into a war needlessly, alter history, spy on ally, or murder a sentient being for the sake of protecting a crew. Sloan just as soon would.​

-Withers-​

Well, you say "needlessly". By what standard? If it were objectively proved that dragging the Romulans into a war were "needless", without possible excuse, then what reason would Sloan have for doing it?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

James Bond fits the criteria you posted as well as Sloan does. I'm sure a lot of spies do.

Sloan was a man who believed the ends justified the means and was willing to do whatever it took to protect the Federation. That does not make a man a sociopath. It makes him A Well Intentioned Extremist.

Except that James Bond works for a British government agency, where as Slone works from criminals with delusions of grandeur.

 

[Xerxes1979]

I have enjoyed the answers everyone have given. Really a case can be made either way. Sloan was not impulsive however, he showed great patience.

To me Sloan on screen completely lacks emotion or guilt. This can't be said for any of the other characters on DS9, all who have committed acts of homicide(except Jake?).

All the great captains of the Star Trek series have been shown to be weighed down by the the pros and cons of following or breaking orders/laws in the resolution of a plot problem. What evidence of ethical paralysis did Sloan ever show?

Who is Sloan accountable to? If he is a big part of the organizational strength of Section 31 then he is accountable to himself not others.

Did Sloan ever think that his rationalizations were more valid than others? I mean if I decided to start murdering people and altering the makeup of the Romulan government I might feel a little bad if those choices enabled Shinzon to rise to power in his quest to destroy Earth.

 

[Withers]

Well, you say "needlessly". By what standard? If it were objectively proved that dragging the Romulans into a war were "needless", without possible excuse, then what reason would Sloan have for doing it?

A poor choice of words on my part- what I meant by that was that the Romulans wouldn't have joined the war had it not been for the actions Sisko took (though I'm about to make a thread that brings that very idea into question.) It wasn't needless but it was avoidable. He didn't have to do it but he made the decision to do so- just as Sloan would have and that was my point.



-Withers-​

 

[Kelthaz]

James Bond fits the criteria you posted as well as Sloan does. I'm sure a lot of spies do.

Sloan was a man who believed the ends justified the means and was willing to do whatever it took to protect the Federation. That does not make a man a sociopath. It makes him A Well Intentioned Extremist.

Except that James Bond works for a British government agency, where as Slone works from criminals with delusions of grandeur.

MI5/Section 31. British Goverment secret service/Federation government secret service. Same difference.

MI5 may not have developed a virus to wipe out an entire species, but M and the gang strike me as rather practical people. I'm sure they would have acted the same way under the same circumstances.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

James Bond fits the criteria you posted as well as Sloan does. I'm sure a lot of spies do.

Sloan was a man who believed the ends justified the means and was willing to do whatever it took to protect the Federation. That does not make a man a sociopath. It makes him A Well Intentioned Extremist.

Except that James Bond works for a British government agency, where as Slone works from criminals with delusions of grandeur.

MI5/Section 31. British Goverment secret service/Federation government secret service. Same difference.

Um no it's not Section 31 says that there authorization to exist comes from Article 14 Section 31 of the Starfleet charter, except that particular part of the charter only says that a Starfleet officer can bend some of the rules in a time of crisis not that they can set up a secret organization that answers to no one. Also MI6 answers to the British government, where as Section 31 does what ever it wants the Federation government be damned .

 

[Penta]

I've always had a suspicion that's Not Quite Accurate...Call it a hunch, but I fully see S31 being accountable to *some* part of the UFP bureaucracy. A shadowy panel of bureaucrats or more...amoral lawmakers would hardly be unprecedented in human history at least.

 

[Delta1]

All that "not accountable to anyone" rubbish started with Sloan's recruitment pitch to Bashir, right? You never reveal that kind of stuff to a lead until you've established their allegiance and reliability. Telling your recruit that you're a super-spy outside the chain of command and daring him to reveal your existence is not the kind of tradecraft that allows an intelligence agency to survive two hundred years. I'm pretty sure Sloan was lying about his agency's unaccountability, and suspect S31 is just a front for Federation Intelligence's less savory activities. If those activities are revealed, they are traced to the "rogue agency" which is denounced, disbanded, and forgotten. Meanwhile, Federation Intelligence assumes control of their assets and transfers all of them to a new project--Paragraph 14, or something like that.

 

[Cyke101]

MI5/Section 31. British Goverment secret service/Federation government secret service. Same difference.

Section 31: outside the Federation, beyond Starfleet. Tracking down alien life in the galaxy, arming the Alpha Quadrant against the future. The twenty-fourth century is when everything changes. And you've got to shag anything within sensor range.

--Agent Luthor Sloan