So Pornography is banned. Now what?

[scotpens]

. . . A perfect example that ties in with food, we are huge consumers of meat, but prefer to get as far away from the concept of killing animals as we can leaving that for others to do.

Not me. I'd be perfectly willing to go out and hunt my own meat if I had to. And when dining out, if it were possible, I'd ask to have the animal killed right there at the table. I want to KNOW what I'm eating!

Since pornography is simply the visual or oral depiction of sex, and sex is a universal interest, why would you expect any different?

I think you mean verbal depiction of sex (i.e., in words, as opposed to images). Oral in that context might be taken the wrong way . . .

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

. . . A perfect example that ties in with food, we are huge consumers of meat, but prefer to get as far away from the concept of killing animals as we can leaving that for others to do.

Not me. I'd be perfectly willing to go out and hunt my own meat if I had to. And when dining out, if it were possible, I'd ask to have the animal killed right there at the table. I want to KNOW what I'm eating!

Since pornography is simply the visual or oral depiction of sex, and sex is a universal interest, why would you expect any different?

I think you mean verbal depiction of sex (i.e., in words, as opposed to images). Oral in that context might be taken the wrong way . . .

I was originally going to say aural, because I was thinking of phone sex, but I thought that might sound a bit pretentious. Should have stuck with my first instinct.

 

[Australis]

Some people do fetishise food.

Porn has been a huge driving force behind ramping up internet services - faster, cleaner video (for a given value of 'cleaner' ).

I'd like to find a way where sex wasn't so prominent in the shaping of our various cultures, but as long as we have advertising for a starter, that'll never happen.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It'll go underground. Porn speakeasies will open up, and the Mob will take over running the industry. Single people buying personal lubricant will come under suspicion. People will use tunnels and proxy servers to gain access to porn in other countries.

That one caught me of guard, i spread tea everywhere.

My work here is done.

 

[Rii]

Yes most people don't want their children to be porn stars, but parents often don't want their children to have a wide variety of jobs which are necessary and rhat they don't look down on.

No, "I have higher aspirations for my child then to be [whatever]" is not at all the same thing as the shame and revulsion which characterise most folks' feelings towards the notion of their child working in the sex industry.

Pornography is hardly confined to countries that are rooted in Puritanism. It transcends all boundaries and all times. All societies produce forms of pornography. Since pornography is simply the visual or oral depiction of sex, and sex is a universal interest, why would you expect any different?

I'm not talking about the existence of pornography, I'm talking about its prevalence, and hidden prevalence at that. Sex is a universal interest, but the expression of that interest is shaped by the cultural domain. Individuals in a society which was truly open about human sexuality would have less need to closet themselves away from one another to furtively gorge on the contrived delights of pornography.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

You can pry my porn from my cold, lubed up hands.

 

[Hunter X]

I can hear what Rii is saying. It's not that sex, sex drive, sexual attraction, etc. are bad, terrible things that should be repressed (yeah, like that's ever worked). It's just being open to the possibility that there's more to sex than the cheap pleasures derived from porn.

To carry on the food analogy, porn is like the cheap fast-food of sex, both of which us Westerners love to gorge on. I think we've forgotten, culturally, that sex can also be fine dining.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Yes most people don't want their children to be porn stars, but parents often don't want their children to have a wide variety of jobs which are necessary and rhat they don't look down on.

No, "I have higher aspirations for my child then to be [whatever]" is not at all the same thing as the shame and revulsion which characterise most folks' feelings towards the notion of their child working in the sex industry.

Pornography is hardly confined to countries that are rooted in Puritanism. It transcends all boundaries and all times. All societies produce forms of pornography. Since pornography is simply the visual or oral depiction of sex, and sex is a universal interest, why would you expect any different?

I'm not talking about the existence of pornography, I'm talking about its prevalence, and hidden prevalence at that. Sex is a universal interest, but the expression of that interest is shaped by the cultural domain. Individuals in a society which was truly open about human sexuality would have less need to closet themselves away from one another to furtively gorge on the contrived delights of pornography.

I think you are making some real generalizations here that I don't understand how you actually see them operating in society. What do you mean by a society being open about sex? That could mean anything from sex education in schools to it being legal to fornicate in the street and frighten the horses. Who is furtively gorging themselves on pornography? Is there a difference between someone who is home watching porn for pleasure and someone who is furtively gorging on it? And is it just a matter of numbers? If 10% of the population occasionally uses porn is that okay, but if 80% often use porn that is not? It is also ironic you think porn is so hidden because many people decry the "pornization" of much of our culture and the mainstream acceptance of porn these days.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

I can hear what Rii is saying. It's not that sex, sex drive, sexual attraction, etc. are bad, terrible things that should be repressed (yeah, like that's ever worked). It's just being open to the possibility that there's more to sex than the cheap pleasures derived from porn.

To carry on the food analogy, porn is like the cheap fast-food of sex, both of which us Westerners love to gorge on. I think we've forgotten, culturally, that sex can also be fine dining.

How are these things mutually exclusive? Who are these hundreds of millions of people who aren't having sex anymore because they are locked in their rooms watching porn?

 

[scotpens]

To carry on the food analogy, porn is like the cheap fast-food of sex, both of which us Westerners love to gorge on. I think we've forgotten, culturally, that sex can also be fine dining.

Well, that gives new meaning to the phrase “eating out.”

 

[RJDiogenes]

Nudity or erotica should be treated as any other art form. But because people are raised in a culture derived from centuries of discomfort with sexuality, these things are demonized and driven underground, as are personal expressions of sexuality. This creates a conflict, as people are taught that they are being bad for feeling good. That's part of the reason that there is an admiration for "badness" and that sexuality is referred to as "dirty" or "cheap" --it has nowhere else to go. Or has had nowhere else to go in the past, except for the occasional artistic nude in a museum. This culture is definitely very adolescent in its attitude toward anything remotely sexual.

 

[jamestyler]

The newspaper softcore isn't bad, but what gets me... even childrens books seem to be about porn. Seriously, read some and there's a lot of sleaze innocent minds don't pick up on.

New Doctor Who had a joke about fellatio, didn't it (Love and Monsters), and the various insinuations about the Doctor "dancing"? Probably lost on most pre-pubescent children.

Ah yes, Elton's comment on his love life with his girlfriend-slab. There's probably been a lot more in nuWho, I'm just too used to it

Well, it was your British tabloids that started the tradition of the “Page 3 girl” -- and God bless ’em for that!

True enough. My kid sister is named after a Page 3 model. The model in the paper the day she was born. My dad didn't look further than the hospital shop for inspiration.

Though it has created a swarm of young women determined to get their chebs out for fame.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Nudity or erotica should be treated as any other art form. But because people are raised in a culture derived from centuries of discomfort with sexuality, these things are demonized and driven underground, as are personal expressions of sexuality. This creates a conflict, as people are taught that they are being bad for feeling good. That's part of the reason that there is an admiration for "badness" and that sexuality is referred to as "dirty" or "cheap" --it has nowhere else to go. Or has had nowhere else to go in the past, except for the occasional artistic nude in a museum. This culture is definitely very adolescent in its attitude toward anything remotely sexual.

Sexuality should be dirty and cheap. It's more fun and still leaves you money for cigarettes and scotch.

 

[Bloodwhiner]

In a college course we had to imagine a society where eating/dining was treated as sex/porn and sex was treated as eating...

Made a very interesting discussion

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

In a college course we had to imagine a society where eating/dining was treated as sex/porn and sex was treated as eating...

Made a very interesting discussion

Sounds like a variation on the film "Le fantôme de la liberté" by Luis Bunuel. There the dichotomy was between eating and going to the lavatory.

 

[Xatso]

This, and in effect the topic of rights, individuality and freedom has been weighed--by the greatest minds of our time:

"Our ultimate freedom is the right and power to decide how anybody or anything outside ourselves, will affect us" ~ Stephen R. Covey (Speaker)

"Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err (do things your own way). It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Art is on the side of the oppressed. Think before you shudder at the simplistic dictum and its heretical definition of the freedom of art. For if art is freedom of the spirit, how can it exist within the oppressors? ~ Nadine Gordimer (Writer)

"Art is never chaste. It ought to be forbidden to ignorant innocents, never allowed into contact with those not sufficiently prepared. Yes, art is dangerous. Where it is chaste, it is not art" ~ Pablo Picasso

"As to the evil which results from censorship, it is impossible to measure it, for it is impossible to tell where it ends" ~ Jeremy Bentham (Philosopher)

"One of the curious things about censorship is that no one seems to want it for himself. We want censorship to protect someone else; the young, the unstable, the suggestible, the stupid. I have never heard of anyone who wanted a film banned because otherwise he might see it and be harmed" ~ Edgar Dale (Professor)

"Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime" ~ Potter Stewart (Judge)

"The first condition of progress is the removal of censorship" ~ George Bernard Shaw (Dramatist)

"The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it ~ John Gilmour (Politician)

 

[scotpens]

Here's one you forgot:

"Dirty books are FUN!" ~ Tom Lehrer

 

[Emher]

Nudity or erotica should be treated as any other art form. But because people are raised in a culture derived from centuries of discomfort with sexuality, these things are demonized and driven underground, as are personal expressions of sexuality. This creates a conflict, as people are taught that they are being bad for feeling good. That's part of the reason that there is an admiration for "badness" and that sexuality is referred to as "dirty" or "cheap" --it has nowhere else to go. Or has had nowhere else to go in the past, except for the occasional artistic nude in a museum. This culture is definitely very adolescent in its attitude toward anything remotely sexual.

...And that's why I vote for RJDiogenes to run the board. Or the entire Internets.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

No porn? Well there goes my social life.

Alex, i love you! you always make me laugh!!

 

[Hunter X]

I can hear what Rii is saying. It's not that sex, sex drive, sexual attraction, etc. are bad, terrible things that should be repressed (yeah, like that's ever worked). It's just being open to the possibility that there's more to sex than the cheap pleasures derived from porn.

To carry on the food analogy, porn is like the cheap fast-food of sex, both of which us Westerners love to gorge on. I think we've forgotten, culturally, that sex can also be fine dining.

How are these things mutually exclusive? Who are these hundreds of millions of people who aren't having sex anymore because they are locked in their rooms watching porn?

They're aren't mutually exclusive. There are plenty of people who enjoy both, with food and with sex. No one has taken this discussion to the extreme of saying you can only have one or the other, or that "hundreds of millions of people" are.

But that doesn't change the fact that Westerners are generally overweight and unhealthy. There is a culture of materialism, consumerism and quantity over quality. The majority of people I know, at work and friends, prefer to eat out or heat up a frozen dinner than cook even a simple meal. I think our attitudes toward sex are similar. People can enjoy both the fast food and the fine dining, but generally aren't. The inclination is to opt for the cheap, easy and fast route every time and never indulge in the "fine dining" since it's too much work. The result of this is that we slowly develop the perception that the only thing that's even attainable anymore, perhaps even ever existed, is the cheap stuff.

It's like we've finally broken out of the sexually repressive society Western culture has been for so long and are now content to largely indulge in the cheap stuff, while patting ourselves on the back for being so much more enlightened. Watching ads, seeing porn for myself and hearing people talk about it, I can't help but wonder how many people realize there's more to it than jerking off to "OMGZ HOTT LESBIAN REDHEADS WITH BOOBIES!"