Kirk's Tunic Color?

[Lethe]

It is curious, I've color sampled a lot of images of the shirt and I don't get green. But I think a lot of this issue comes from what people think is green.

For example, Apple (and NeXT before them) provided a wonderful tool for working with colors. When I pick a pure yellow, I'm pretty sure most people would say it is yellow. But if I darken that same color (without any shifting towards green), I think people see that as green.

I'm sure people will say it is whatever color they think they are seeing, but the samples I've taken almost never pull towards the actual color green. If you are attempting to generate that same color of the shirt, you'll need to stay away from actual green to end up with the green you want.

This was really interesting. I downloaded your screencap and opened it up in Corel Painter (it has a similiar-yet-different color wheel color picker). I was convinced that that darkened yellow (it looks very avocado-ish) would show up in the green family... but nope... its definitely still in the yellow group! Not sure it proves anything just thought I'd mention it.

 

[J.T.B.]

The rank device, one star, and the two-inch gold sleeve band are worn by RADML, which was the same as a WW II Commodore rank insignia.

Right. I wrote "from the late 1800s," but I should have specified "from the late 1800s onward." To be specific, the single two-inch broad stripe was first authorized in Dec. 1866.

It seems as if you are mixing insignia and ensign in your last graph. An ensign is a flag, which is what you mention and is of course flown not worn.

What I meant was, the uniform insignia are the same, the only thing that is different is the flag.

--Justin

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The rank device, one star, and the two-inch gold sleeve band are worn by RADML, which was the same as a WW II Commodore rank insignia.

Right. I wrote "from the late 1800s," but I should have specified "from the late 1800s onward." To be specific, the single two-inch broad stripe was first authorized in Dec. 1866.

It seems as if you are mixing insignia and ensign in your last graph. An ensign is a flag, which is what you mention and is of course flown not worn.

What I meant was, the uniform insignia are the same, the only thing that is different is the flag.

--Justin

Just reread that graph and my brain must've farted on my first read. My apologies.

 

[Green Shirt]

It is curious, I've color sampled a lot of images of the shirt and I don't get green. But I think a lot of this issue comes from what people think is green.

We folks who want the color to be green don't do so by conscious decision. Its not an illness. We were born that way, its God's fault.

 

[Spencey]

My wife has a purple handbag. It is clearly purple in daylight, but under some lights it looks brown. I mean it really looks like it is a brown handbag. I think this must be the same thing with Kirk's shirt. It's a weird light thing.

 

[maneth]

The wraparound is green to me too, but the ordinary shirt definitely brownish-yellow. That said, my color vision is weird. We have a sofa I swear is blue, my husband and MIL claim it's green. I don't know if it's a matter of vision, of actually seeing different colors, or of semantics, i.e. where you put the boundary between two colors...

 

[J.T.B.]

Just reread that graph and my brain must've farted on my first read. My apologies.

Not at all, my wording was vague!

--Justin

 

[Orcus]

The wraparound is green to me too, but the ordinary shirt definitely brownish-yellow. That said, my color vision is weird. We have a sofa I swear is blue, my husband and MIL claim it's green. I don't know if it's a matter of vision, of actually seeing different colors, or of semantics, i.e. where you put the boundary between two colors...

I'd say it's probably the latter; most people do this. As an example, I tend to put "teal" and "cyan" in the green category rather than blue - though others would have it the other way around...

 

[Green Shirt]

When I pick a pure yellow, I'm pretty sure most people would say it is yellow. But if I darken that same color (without any shifting towards green), I think people see that as green.

Wow, dark yellow is green. So I guess dark white is gray? What does the color wheel think dark black is?

 

[Shaw]

When I pick a pure yellow, I'm pretty sure most people would say it is yellow. But if I darken that same color (without any shifting towards green), I think people see that as green.

Wow, dark yellow is green. So I guess dark white is gray? What does the color wheel think dark black is?

I'm guessing you want to discuss color theory? White and black occupy the same spot on the color wheel... dead center. All shades in between are grays. How those are produced depends on what color space is generating it... active (back lit) or passive (reflective).

Before digital cameras reached their current state, most of my photographer clients paid a ton of money for scanners that could scan slides, transparencies and negatives, because you get a larger color envelope (truer colors) than a normal scan of a photo (which is reflecting light off the image).

Even then, color calibrating their displays was always an interesting process, and included a calibration device to get the display to be as true to the original colors as possible. But they never forgot (or I would remind them) that when working on a computer they were looking at their images in active RGB color, and their final printed form would actually be passive CMYK color.

When was the last time you had your display calibrated using a calibration device? What is yellow in RGB? Yellow (255, 255, 0) is a compromise on most computer displays and televisions. White (255, 255, 255) and black (0, 0, 0) are also compromises, as is a dark yellow (174, 174, 0).

But I'm not really qualified to discuss colors in depth, so I'm sure someone who has actually studied color theory would do a much better job of describing all this and could provide more details.

 

[Kagan]

So, let me see if I'm understanding this correctly...

Star Fleet wanted gold tunics for command branch personnel, but they had installed lighting in all Star Fleet ships that caused those tunics to look a washed out pastle yellow.

Sooo....rather than changing the lighting because that would mean placing every Star Fleet vessel in drydocks for months.... And rather than changing command to pastle yellow because it would make ship captains look like they're part of the 20th Century's "camp" movement...

Instead, Star Fleet decided to change the color of the tunics so that under the ship's lighting it will appear gold.

Right?

 

[Green Shirt]

I'm guessing you want to discuss color theory?

Naa, I'm just goofin' on a subject that is rapidly descending into beyond absurd. Imagine using a color wheel to "prove" how everyone else is either stupid or blind. People see what they see, and call it what they call it.

Just remind me to stock up on plenty of red and dark yellow wrapping paper for next Christmas. Oh, well.

Well, I'm going outside now to check out our blizzard. All that cool looking snow. Its white (I think).

 

[ndcarlin]

The color is whatever it looks like on the TV set you watch it on. And the bridge was probably largely cardboard and vacuform platic. And McCoys medical doohickeys were salt and pepper shakers.

 

[Shaw]

I'm guessing you want to discuss color theory?

Naa, I'm just goofin' on a subject that is rapidly descending into beyond absurd...

Funny... I thought I was discussing how everyone might be seeing something different depending on how it was displayed (usually with RGB displays). I see green on my main display (21" Sony Trinitron) but not so much on my PowerBook's display. I have 10 computers around me and all displays colors slightly differently, but someone with a single computer might not be aware of this.

But if the discussion has made you feel stupid or blind, that was not the intent. Color is a vast subject that people specialize in and spend a lot of money to perfect and catalog. The average person may call it what they call it, but I'd rather treat everyone around here as above average. If that made you feel stupid, again, that was not the intent.

But if you aren't someone who takes discussions seriously, I'll make note of that for the future. I tend to avoid frivolous discussions as a waste of time. Color theory is an interesting subject (what little I've learned) and thought that the present company might also find it interesting as well.

It appears I was mistaken. I'll avoid this type of mistake in the future.

 

[Captain Robert April]

It's a weird shade of green.

 

[Maurice]

The color is whatever it looks like on the TV set you watch it on. And the bridge was probably largely cardboard and vacuform platic. And McCoys medical doohickeys were salt and pepper shakers.

Actually, the bridge was wood with some plastics. Only a few of McCoy's intruments were salt shakers: machined metal objects in similar shapes made up a lot of them.

Just sayin'.

 

[Orcus]

The color is whatever it looks like on the TV set you watch it on. And the bridge was probably largely cardboard and vacuform platic. And McCoys medical doohickeys were salt and pepper shakers.

Actually, the bridge was wood with some plastics. Only a few of McCoy's intruments were salt shakers: machined metal objects in similar shapes made up a lot of them.

Just sayin'.

Noooo! It's real! (and dark yellow...)

 

[Therin of Andor]

The color is whatever it looks like on the TV set you watch it on.

In Australia - for me - black, white, grey... and green:

http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/2008/07/confessions-of-colourblind-man-now-i.html

 

[Green Shirt]

I'm guessing you want to discuss color theory?

Naa, I'm just goofin' on a subject that is rapidly descending into beyond absurd...

Funny... I thought I was discussing how everyone might be seeing something different depending on how it was displayed (usually with RGB displays). I see green on my main display (21" Sony Trinitron) but not so much on my PowerBook's display. I have 10 computers around me and all displays colors slightly differently, but someone with a single computer might not be aware of this.

But if the discussion has made you feel stupid or blind, that was not the intent. Color is a vast subject that people specialize in and spend a lot of money to perfect and catalog. The average person may call it what they call it, but I'd rather treat everyone around here as above average. If that made you feel stupid, again, that was not the intent.

But if you aren't someone who takes discussions seriously, I'll make note of that for the future. I tend to avoid frivolous discussions as a waste of time. Color theory is an interesting subject (what little I've learned) and thought that the present company might also find it interesting as well.

It appears I was mistaken. I'll avoid this type of mistake in the future.

And I'll make it a point to avoid interacting with the humorless in the future.

 

[Cap'n Caveman]

That tv guide shot of ShatNimoy has a lot of ambient blue that would affect how the tunic appears. BUT - I'll bet I've posted this earlier in this thread - I saw it with my own eyes under white light in Detroit. It was greenish yellow. Not gold. Not green. A real chartreuse. But it definitely had a greenish cast. And very vibrant. Third season poly, by the way, which did photograph greener than 1 and 2 velour. In my mind, in Omega Glory location shots it looks about right. Somebody can find a screencap if they like. Be well!

LATER: I went and looked - no it's pretty gold in the scrrencaps; maybe I'm thinking of my viewmaster reels which would've used a different camera, right? I think in those it's greenish.

The problem is, you saw them under artificial lighting. No artificial light source is ever truly "white". A good example is the old style fluorescent lighting found in many offices, things look white too, but take a photograph (digital or film) and everything has a greenish cast. Or regular household lighting, where everything has an extremely warm (orangish) cast. The problem is that our brains tend to reinterpret colors the way we think they should be, as some posters have pointed out. The only truly universal light source is bright sunshine (and not cloudy or overcast either), and any determination of colors should all be in this natural light source.

The cameras used in producing Viewmaster discs would not influence the color of a subject; however, the film used would absolutely influence the color, as each brand and type of film (as well as lighting) would influence the color of the subject.