Star Fleet Academy Question

[Purdy Bear]

If the Academy is around in the now, what lessons would it be teaching?

I'v made a list up, but Im no expert, what do you think?

The pre-Academy test would probably include IQ tests, Multiple Intelligence tests, behavioural tests etc.

. Etiquette and Good Manners. Covers personal presentation (correct clothes laundering and wear), speach, deportment, social occasions; Dining such as silver surface, conversational dos and donts, dealing with bad food. What to wear for what occasion, moral codes, spoken and unspoken rules, and lastly behavioural dos and donts.

. Physical Training. Martial Arts: Hand to hand combat, weaponry, meditation and yoga, stress relievers. Sports and military marching drills.

. Geography. Map reading, geology, star charts, navigation and weather.

. The Sciences. Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Human Biology, Speices biology, Ectobiology, Nurtrition and Domestic sciences.

. Cultures. Religious: practices, clothes, dos and donts. Languages, Dress dos and donts, legal systems, behavioural dos and donts, dangerous foods, animals and insects.

. Maths.

. History

. Security. Defence, Battle plans and formations, weaponery - repair, use and making of.

. Technology

. Officer Training. Time management, team building, supervising others, delegation, confidence builders, management skills.

. First aid and medical skills.

. Engineering/mechanical maintence. Including driving different vehicles.

. Administration. Personnel, accounts, councelling.

. Operations in the field.

. Church perades. Weekly attendance, Christenings, Weddings, Buriels, Festivals, metaphysical studies.

. Survival skills and Bushcraft. Including farming, preparations, storage of food, animal care and veterinary studies.

. Specific specialisations for certain jobs.

 

[Nick086]

If the Academy is around in the now, what lessons would it be teaching?

I'v made a list up, but Im no expert, what do you think?

The pre-Academy test would probably include IQ tests, Multiple Intelligence tests, behavioural tests etc.

. Etiquette and Good Manners. Covers personal presentation (correct clothes laundering and wear), speach, deportment, social occasions; Dining such as silver surface, conversational dos and donts, dealing with bad food. What to wear for what occasion, moral codes, spoken and unspoken rules, and lastly behavioural dos and donts.

. Physical Training. Martial Arts: Hand to hand combat, weaponry, meditation and yoga, stress relievers. Sports and military marching drills.

. Geography. Map reading, geology, star charts, navigation and weather.

. The Sciences. Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Human Biology, Speices biology, Ectobiology, Nurtrition and Domestic sciences.

. Cultures. Religious: practices, clothes, dos and donts. Languages, Dress dos and donts, legal systems, behavioural dos and donts, dangerous foods, animals and insects.

. Maths.

. History

. Security. Defence, Battle plans and formations, weaponery - repair, use and making of.

. Technology

. Officer Training. Time management, team building, supervising others, delegation, confidence builders, management skills.

. First aid and medical skills.

. Engineering/mechanical maintence. Including driving different vehicles.

. Administration. Personnel, accounts, councelling.

. Operations in the field.

. Church perades. Weekly attendance, Christenings, Weddings, Buriels, Festivals, metaphysical studies.

. Survival skills and Bushcraft. Including farming, preparations, storage of food, animal care and veterinary studies.

. Specific specialisations for certain jobs.

I wonder if West Point follows something similar to the list you just made up....

 

[Jefferies]

To be honest, I don't think Starfleet Academy compares to any current military training college. I always had the impression it's much more similar to current elite universities with faculties and proper academic departments. After all, most Starfleet personnel are scientists that have to be capable of carrying out and analysing cutting edge research on a daily basis. Yes, it also teaches things like combat, service protocol and survival strategies but overall the science dominates the curriculum. For example, Tom Paris, a pilot, didn't major in piloting but graduated in astrophysics and Data, an operations officer, graduated in exobiology and quantum physics.

 

[Sci]

. Church perades. Weekly attendance, Christenings, Weddings, Buriels, Festivals, metaphysical studies.

I'm pretty disgusted at the idea that a state academy would ever require or advocate membership in a religious organization. What happened to separation of church and state?

 

[Colonel Midnight]

From a graduate of a current military academy, that list was pretty accurate, except for the religious stuff. That would be only voluntary/offered if you wish to attend, but not mandatory.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[SchwEnt]

I think one of the FASA TNG game books covered this...maybe the First Year Sourcebook? I recall a very detailed course cirrculum. They listed course credits, electives, year by year.

I know it's not canon, and I'm not actually giving the answers here.
But I know that somewhere, in print, the whole Academy program was spelled out by FASA. That may be of helpful interest, if anyone can find the book.

 

[Jefferies]

From a graduate of a current military academy, that list was pretty accurate, except for the religious stuff. That would be only voluntary/offered if you wish to attend, but not mandatory.

Cheers,
-CM-

But Starfleet Academy isn't a military academy. It's a University. I think that is portrayed quite clearly on the shows. The list by the OP might be accurate for contemperary military training but Starfleet?

 

[A beaker full of death]

But Starfleet Academy isn't a military academy. It's a University. I think that is portrayed quite clearly on the shows. The list by the OP might be accurate for contemperary military training but Starfleet?

Oh bullshit. Do you think Annapolis only teaches Scuba Gear 101?

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Indeed. Besides, all of the five military academies (at least in the USA) are universities.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Jefferies]

Indeed. Besides, all of the five military academies (at least in the USA) are universities.

Cheers,
-CM-

But what do they put emphasis on? Can you come out of one of these institutions and have a full degree in subjects like Astrophysics or Archeology? Or do they primarily teach you how to be a military officer? Or maybe both?

 

[neozeks]

But what do they put emphasis on? Can you come out of one of these institutions and have a full degree in subjects like Astrophysics or Archeology? Or do they primarily teach you how to be a military officer? Or maybe both?

I'm pretty sure it's both. That's why they are four years long. People that already have a degree go to Officer Candidate School or somesuch, which is only a few months long.

The offered subjects will of course be more military related (engineering, legal, nautical sciences etc), but you'll stil get a full degree.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Both, at least in RL. You graduate with both a degree (Bachelor's) and a commission.

A typical 'Academy Day' would start with Reveille at 0600, formation at 0620, breakfast, then classes running from 0800-1600 (noon inspection/formation at 1145-1200, then lunch). Then 2 hours of mandatory sports (either intramural or NCAA), followed by dinner formation/evening meal, then study hour. Taps/Lights out at 2200. (More of a "quiet time enforcement" than actual lights out other than in the hallways.)

Classes were usually academic (i.e. geared more towards the degree), whereas you had military duties depending on your year group.

Fourth-class (freshman) duties were more 'grunt', like cleaning the heads, routing newspapers/messages;
Third-class (sophomore) was more observing/learning how to be a leader;
Second-class (junior) were the leaders/military instructors of the Fourth-class;
First-class (seniors) were nominally in charge of the Regiment & Battalions, plus other miscellaneous duties (Regimental Transportation, for instance), and basically just laying low and finishing up your degree.

Also, you owe 5 years after graduation (at least it was when I graduated, back when those dinosaurs were running around -- think its gone back-and-forth from 5 to 6 years since then) of active duty service time as "payback".

(Of course, if you run a ship aground or do something spectacularly stupid like say, boffing another officer in front of the crew -- then that payback time becomes 'negotiable'. As in, "Don't let the Exit Door hit you in the posterior on the way out.")

Hope that all makes sense -- hard to explain without this becoming an even more long-winded post.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[T'Girl]

Star Fleet may not be the official military of the Federation, but it serves many of the some functions. The US Air Force I understand has a policy that it's officers are officers first and their own specialties second. May be a good idea for Star Fleet and an important part of the academy's curriculum.

Etiquette and Good Manners. Folks in SF always seemed fairly well groomed. McCoy saw nothing odd about Kirk buffing his nails in Turnabout Intruder.

Combat . Small unit tactics. The episodes The Galileo Seven and Arena showed that Spock especially needed a refresher in this area. Anyone who may one day be part of a landing party would receive phaser instruction, in other words, everyone.

Physical Training . Even today the time when troops were marched into battle are long over, however marching drills provide unit cohesion and interdependency, so they still might require this in the future.

Religions . Some cadet may arrive at the academy with no personal experience with religion or belief systems. Others come from worlds with a single faith, training would include tolerance. Not just of "Alien Religions", but the beliefs of cadets and later SF personnel who come from hundreds of worlds and many thousands of cultures. Your basic diversity training.

Prior to entry into todays military academys officer cadets first go through a basic training program.

Part of current enlisted basic training consists of giving recruits a series of simple tasks and then placing them under psychological stress to see how they perform. Be interesting to see them figure out a way to place a Vulcan under stress.

 

[Delta1]

"If the Academy is around in the now, what lessons would it be teaching?"

If the Academy were around now, what would it be doing with its graduates? We don't have a Starfleet, so a Starfleet Academy would be a bit redundant. We can imagine a modern-day paramilitary academy built around Roddenberrian ideals, but since we don't live in a Roddenberrian utopia, and since we don't have a Starfleet to carry out those ideals, such an institution would be useless.

Starfleet Academy exists to impart the body of knowledge necessary for entrance into the Starfleet officer corps. Without a Starfleet officer corps, the idea of a Starfleet Academy is meaningless.

 

[Jefferies]

Both, at least in RL. You graduate with both a degree (Bachelor's) and a commission.

A typical 'Academy Day' would start with Reveille at 0600, formation at 0620, breakfast, then classes running from 0800-1600 (noon inspection/formation at 1145-1200, then lunch). Then 2 hours of mandatory sports (either intramural or NCAA), followed by dinner formation/evening meal, then study hour. Taps/Lights out at 2200. (More of a "quiet time enforcement" than actual lights out other than in the hallways.)

Classes were usually academic (i.e. geared more towards the degree), whereas you had military duties depending on your year group.

Fourth-class (freshman) duties were more 'grunt', like cleaning the heads, routing newspapers/messages;
Third-class (sophomore) was more observing/learning how to be a leader;
Second-class (junior) were the leaders/military instructors of the Fourth-class;
First-class (seniors) were nominally in charge of the Regiment & Battalions, plus other miscellaneous duties (Regimental Transportation, for instance), and basically just laying low and finishing up your degree.

Also, you owe 5 years after graduation (at least it was when I graduated, back when those dinosaurs were running around -- think its gone back-and-forth from 5 to 6 years since then) of active duty service time as "payback".

(Of course, if you run a ship aground or do something spectacularly stupid like say, boffing another officer in front of the crew -- then that payback time becomes 'negotiable'. As in, "Don't let the Exit Door hit you in the posterior on the way out.")

Hope that all makes sense -- hard to explain without this becoming an even more long-winded post.

Cheers,
-CM-

Thanks for the explanation.

I doubt Starfleet cadets have to do much of the "duties" type of work that you outline though. Officers are much more common in Starfleet thus command and leadership would be less of a priority for everyone. Whereas training to become a first rate scientist would be much more important for the bulk of cadets. I still believe the military elements would be highly reduced compared to an officers school from today.

 

[Mysterion]

Indeed. Besides, all of the five military academies (at least in the USA) are universities.

Cheers,
-CM-

But what do they put emphasis on? Can you come out of one of these institutions and have a full degree in subjects like Astrophysics or Archeology? Or do they primarily teach you how to be a military officer? Or maybe both?

In addition to the military training, here's a description from Wikipedia of the USMA (West Point) academic program:

The academic program consists of a structured core of 31 courses balanced between the arts and sciences. Although cadets choose their majors in the fall of their sophomore year, they take the same course of instruction until the beginning of their junior year. This core course of instruction consists of mathematics, computer science, chemistry, physics, engineering, history, physical geography, philosophy, leadership and general psychology, English composition and literature, foreign language, political science, international relations, economics, and constitutional law. Some advanced cadets may "validate" out of the base-level classes and take advanced or accelerated courses earlier as freshmen or sophomores. Regardless of major, all cadets graduate with a Bachelor of Science degree.

And here's what wiki says about the US Naval Academy academic program:

The Naval Academy received accreditation as an approved "technological institution" in 1930. In 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt signed into law an act of Congress providing for the Bachelor of Science Degree for the Naval, Military, and Coast Guard Academies. The Class of 1933 was the first to receive this degree and have it written in the diploma. In 1937, an act of Congress extended to the Superintendent of the Naval Academy the authority to award the Bachelor of Science degree to all living graduates. The Academy later replaced a fixed curriculum taken by all midshipmen with the present core curriculum plus 21 major fields of study, a wide variety of elective courses and advanced study and research opportunities. Currently, all 22 majors are:

• Aerospace Engineering
• Arabic
• Chemistry
• Chinese
• Computer Engineering
• Computer Science
• Economics
• Electrical Engineering
• English
• General Engineering
• General Science

• History
• Information Technology
• Mathematics
• Mechanical Engineering
• Naval Architecture
• Ocean Engineering
• Oceanography
• Physics
• Political Science
• Quantitative Economics
• Systems Engineering

And, the Air Force Academy:

The Air Force Academy is an accredited four-year university offering Bachelor's degrees in a variety of subjects. Approximately 75 percent of the faculty are Air Force officers, with the remaining 25 percent civilian professors, visiting professors from civilian universities and instructors from other U.S. and allied foreign military services. In recent years, civilians have become a growing portion of senior faculty. All graduates receive a Bachelor of Science degree, regardless of major, because of the technical content of the core requirements. The Dean of the Faculty is usually an active-duty brigadier general, although a civilian may hold the position. Each academic department is chaired by a "permanent professor," an academic rank and position somewhat analogous to a tenured senior professor at a civilian university.
Cadets may major in a variety of divisional, disciplinary or inter-disciplinary subjects, including majors in engineering, the basic sciences, social sciences and humanities. The academic program has an extensive core curriculum, in which all cadets take required courses in the sciences, engineering, social sciences, humanities, military studies and physical education. Approximately sixty percent of a cadet's courseload is mandated by the core curriculum. As a result, most of a cadet's first two years are spent in core classes. During the third and fourth years, cadets have more flexibility to focus in their major areas of study, but the core requirements are still significant.
Traditionally, the academic program at the Air Force Academy (as with military academies in general) has focused heavily on science and engineering, with the idea that many graduates would be expected to manage complex aeronautical, astronautical and communications systems. As a result, the Academy's engineering programs have traditionally been ranked highly. Over time, however, the Academy broadened its humanities offerings and many cadets have selected majors in non-technical disciplines (notably more than the other U.S. service academies). This has been seen by some as inconsistent with the original academic focus of the Academy. Former Air Force Secretary James Roche was concerned enough that he ordered a revamping of the curriculum to reduce the workload of engineering majors. His goal was to encourage more cadets to pursue science or engineering studies. This effort was opposed by those who believed that engineering expertise could be provided by the defense industry, and that leadership, management and foreign studies requirements are at least as significant as historical demands for technical preeminence. Since Roche left the position, however, his effort appears to have been abandoned.

 

[Sci]

In other words, military academies are perfectly prepared to create scientists and engineers in addition to soldiers.

Also:

Starfleet is the Federation's military. A military is the agency designated by the state to defend the state in times of war. Starfleet defends the Federation in times of war. Ergo, Starfleet is the military.

Also, a mere university wouldn't call its students "cadets."

 

[Jefferies]

In other words, military academies are perfectly prepared to create scientists and engineers in addition to soldiers.

Also:

Starfleet is the Federation's military. A military is the agency designated by the state to defend the state in times of war. Starfleet defends the Federation in times of war. Ergo, Starfleet is the military.

Also, a mere university wouldn't call its students "cadets."

Thats just mincing words. Of course Starfleet is the military in that sense. But it is muss less rigid then the armed forces today. After all everyone in Starfleet is highly educated which can't be said for today's armies (as officers are a small minority). So there is no need to treat anyone like grunts. Starfleet is much more civilian in its style than anything that calls itsself military today. And this will be relfected in the ethos at Starfleet Academy.

 

[Mysterion]

Thats just mincing words. Of course Starfleet is the military in that sense. But it is muss less rigid then the armed forces today. After all everyone in Starfleet is highly educated which can't be said for today's armies (as officers are a small minority). So there is no need to treat anyone like grunts. Starfleet is much more civilian in its style than anything that calls itsself military today. And this will be relfected in the ethos at Starfleet Academy.

Well, just because you don't have a commission it doesn't mean you're some sort of knuckle-dragging neanderthal, you know.

Many enlisted personnel and non-commissioned officers have college and/or college-level educations under their belts.

And don't sneer at the "grunt" work (or the people that do it), it needs to get done somehow, doesn't it? And some people don't mind making their living at an honest days work.

This discussion is starting to renew my feelings that no one should receive a military commission who hasn't first reached at least the rank of E-5 first.

 

[Sci]

In other words, military academies are perfectly prepared to create scientists and engineers in addition to soldiers.

Also:

Starfleet is the Federation's military. A military is the agency designated by the state to defend the state in times of war. Starfleet defends the Federation in times of war. Ergo, Starfleet is the military.

Also, a mere university wouldn't call its students "cadets."

Thats just mincing words. Of course Starfleet is the military in that sense. But it is muss less rigid then the armed forces today.

1. That's not mincing words, that's using their actual definition. Being or not being a military is a legal status, not an evaluation of their attitudes.

2. Plenty of militaries today are "less rigid" than the military you seem to be thinking of. The United States Coast Guard is a military, but its primary mission is maritime law enforcement. The Canadian Forces regards humanitarian work as being one of its primary missions.

After all everyone in Starfleet is highly educated which can't be said for today's armies (as officers are a small minority). So there is no need to treat anyone like grunts. Starfleet is much more civilian in its style than anything that calls itsself military today. And this will be relfected in the ethos at Starfleet Academy.

Certainly Starfleet is much less militant in its operational philosophy, but it is still a military.

And I think it's unfair to assume that anyone who isn't an officer in, say, the modern U.S. military is uneducated.