Star Trek Online and Countdown Graphic Novel Continuities

[Allyn Gibson]

Surely just adding “and then the Borg returned” at the end of one of the STO “path” updates would have caused less confusion? A Borg return is pretty much inevitable anyway in TrekLit, sooner or later (hopefully later since most of us are still recovering from the Borg Overload).

What makes you think the Borg are ever going to return in the main continuity of TrekLit? I don't see how -- Mack didn't leave any doors open for it. The nearly all-powerful Caeliar ended the Borg, period -- and he's said that part of the reason he did that was that he felt it was time to end the Borg's story.

1) Alt-universe Borg. Say, from the Mirror Universe. They reach "our" universe, generate a new Queen once they realize they're disconnected from the Collective, and start assimilating to rebuild their numbers.

2) Pre-Destiny Borg trapped in a) subspace bubble, b) black hole event horizon, c) Slaver stasis field d) outside conventional space-time, any of which would allow some quantity of Borg to escape the Caeliar ascension.

3) Experiments with reverse-engineered Borg tech goes horribly wrong and a new Collective is accidentally created. (Just because the Caeliar destroyed the Borg's technology, it does not follow that the Caeliar destroyed the knowledge of the Borg's technology.)

Sci, I agree with you, believe it or not; for the Borg, narratively, Destiny represents a final end. (Imagine Patrick Troughton saying that. ) When/if the Borg return, there won't be a continuity in the Borg from, say, "Best of Both Worlds" through First Contact through Destiny and then onto this new story. All the ideas I suggest above aren't a continuance of the Borg we've known. Rather, their like a railway siding; a similar track, a parallel track, but not the original track.

Just as the Daleks have escaped their final end (in "Evil of the Daleks," in "Remembrance of the Daleks," in the Time War and beyond), so too will the Borg. It's inevitable.

 

[MNM]

1) Alt-universe Borg. Say, from the Mirror Universe. They reach "our" universe, generate a new Queen once they realize they're disconnected from the Collective, and start assimilating to rebuild their numbers.

2) Pre-Destiny Borg trapped in a) subspace bubble, b) black hole event horizon, c) Slaver stasis field d) outside conventional space-time, any of which would allow some quantity of Borg to escape the Caeliar ascension.

Hernandez did say though in Destiny that there was no Borg left "anywhere", which would surely at least cover against either of the above from being a way to bring them back.

 

[Christopher]

Well, it's a big galaxy. Who's to say some other civilization couldn't independently trigger the emergence of a Borg-like collective? Indeed, that's how some readers reconcile the various contradictory Borg origins presented in Trek novels, stories, and comics -- that there were several independent creations of collectives that ended up assimilating each other to become the Borg we knew.

Still, as I've said, even if it's possible, I don't see why it's desirable, certainly not anytime soon. Sure, if there were a really good story to tell about the Borg or something equivalent, and there were no way to tell it as a pre-Destiny flashback, then an excuse could certainly be concocted. But there just aren't that many stories to tell about the Borg. They're really not that interesting when you get right down to it. A large percentage of "Borg stories" have actually been stories about ex-Borg or people dealing with the aftermath of Borg attacks, and it's still possible to do those stories without bringing back the Collective itself.

 

[ATimson]

1) Alt-universe Borg. Say, from the Mirror Universe. They reach "our" universe, generate a new Queen once they realize they're disconnected from the Collective, and start assimilating to rebuild their numbers.

And you can only see them if you wear 3D glasses?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

1) Alt-universe Borg. Say, from the Mirror Universe. They reach "our" universe, generate a new Queen once they realize they're disconnected from the Collective, and start assimilating to rebuild their numbers.

And you can only see them if you wear 3D glasses?

That, and a proton pack.

Well, it's a big galaxy. Who's to say some other civilization couldn't independently trigger the emergence of a Borg-like collective? Indeed, that's how some readers reconcile the various contradictory Borg origins presented in Trek novels, stories, and comics -- that there were several independent creations of collectives that ended up assimilating each other to become the Borg we knew.

Don't limit yourself to readers, Christopher. That's how some writers reconcile it all, too.

 

[TheAlmanac]

Just as the Daleks have escaped their final end (in "Evil of the Daleks," in "Remembrance of the Daleks," in the Time War and beyond), so too will the Borg. It's inevitable.

I've been thinking of the Daleks as this whole discussion has been going on, and given that their supposed elimination from all of space-time in the Time War was (arguably) meant to be even more final than the elimination of the Borg in Destiny, it seems like there are plenty of ways they could return.

Why, I bet some American billionaire is getting his hands on a lonely Borg as we speak...

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, well, frankly, I could've done with one or two fewer resurrections of the Daleks in recent years.

I mean, weren't people constantly complaining about how the Borg were being overused in Voyager? Saying that it diminished them as a threat if they were being encountered and defeated over and over again? Saying that less was more, that the Borg should be used judiciously? And yet now, barely a year after the Borg were eradicated in Trek Lit, people are saying "Hey, how can we bring them back?" as if there were some sort of urgent need for it. Just goes to show, no matter what you do, somebody's going to complain.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The only time I would ever want to hear about the Borg again would be in the MU. And have it be entirely *in* the MU. (I doubt that the Destiny trilogy could have happened there, anyway.)

 

[Sci]

Lost Souls was very explicit: There are no more Borg. Period.

So what? It means nothing.

Why?

What reason do you have to think that the main novel continuity will bring the Borg back post-DEST?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Hernandez did say though in Destiny that there was no Borg left "anywhere", which would surely at least cover against either of the above from being a way to bring them back.

There's no indication in Destiny that the Caeliar were able to affect things outside of their present. They were aware of the flow of time, even able to observe the past, but otherwise, they seemed as fixed in the moment as, say, humanity.

The only time I would ever want to hear about the Borg again would be in the MU. And have it be entirely *in* the MU. (I doubt that the Destiny trilogy could have happened there, anyway.)

The existence of the Borg in the Mirror Universe is a strong argument against the origin posited in Destiny, which is why the multiple evolutions to Borg-like creations at different places and in different times is likely.

I tend to think that the MU Borg would not be as... evil and unrelenting as the "regular" Borg, mainly because they wouldn't have a degraded Sedin at their core. They would probably be more like the oblivious, faceless Borg of "Q Who?" It could be that in the "regular" universe, the encounter with Earth reawakened Sedin's long-dormant memories of the destruction of Erigol and the role of humanity in that, which triggered the emergence of the Borg Queen protocols. (Why didn't I think of this a year ago? This makes a lot of sense...)

 

[MNM]

There's no indication in Destiny that the Caeliar were able to affect things outside of their present. They were aware of the flow of time, even able to observe the past, but otherwise, they seemed as fixed in the moment as, say, humanity.

They refused to alter time because it was one of their laws, but I see no evidence from how they were portrayed that shows they couldnt do so if they changed their minds. Even at the end when they thought Erika was asking them to change history with regards to the creation of the Borg, their objections were based in the "we wont alter time" argument rather than the "there is nothing we can actually do" one.

 

[DimesDan]

And yet now, barely a year after the Borg were eradicated in Trek Lit, people are saying "Hey, how can we bring them back?" as if there were some sort of urgent need for it. Just goes to show, no matter what you do, somebody's going to complain.

Yeah, you can't please all of the people all of the time or how ever the saying goes.

Personally, I'm fine with the way the Borg were dealt with in Destiny. Although I am sure they will crop up again somewhen in the future, that's the way these things happen. As for it being urgent for them to return, I personally don't see it like that, I see it more a case of, when they come back, this is how it may occur.

 

[JoeZhang]

Yeah, well, frankly, I could've done with one or two fewer resurrections of the Daleks in recent years.

I mean, weren't people constantly complaining about how the Borg were being overused in Voyager? Saying that it diminished them as a threat if they were being encountered and defeated over and over again? Saying that less was more, that the Borg should be used judiciously? And yet now, barely a year after the Borg were eradicated in Trek Lit, people are saying "Hey, how can we bring them back?" as if there were some sort of urgent need for it. Just goes to show, no matter what you do, somebody's going to complain.

Who's actually saying that? All I see is people pointing out that if and when the trek lit sales go down the shitter that it's likely that the borg, Janeway and anyone else who can maybe prop up sales will reappear, then some people are discussing how that can be done if that was the case - I don't actually see anyone saying "wow we must have the borg back NOW".

 

[Sci]

Who's actually saying that? All I see is people pointing out that if and when the trek lit sales go down the shitter that it's likely that the borg, Janeway and anyone else who can maybe prop up sales will reappear,

The problem with that hypothesis is that, as Christopher noted, there is no evidence that Borg-based novels actually sell any better than non-Borg-based novels.

 

[Christopher]

More to the point, there's no reason to assume that if Pocket wanted an Event to boost sales, the Borg would be the default go-to option. After all, ST is a huge universe. There are lots and lots of other things to base Events on. Overall, the Borg have been such a small part of Trek Lit (2007-8 being very much the exception to the rule) that it's odd to suggest Trek Lit couldn't manage for long without them.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

which is why the multiple evolutions to Borg-like creations at different places and in different times is likely.

Stop that! Don't give anyone any ideas here. I want the Borg to STAY DEAD.

(seriously. Enough already. Let them die!)

What reason do you have to think that the main novel continuity will bring the Borg back post-DEST?

We're talking about it here, aren't we?

As for the MU Borg: However their *origin* happened (and I suppose it is possible that it played out the same in the MU as it did in the RU), perhaps Destiny - as we have already read it - affected them as well. Reached across the dimensional barrier, as it were.

Anyway, given recent events, we're not likely to read anything MU-related for a while now anyway so it's not like this is going to be put to the test...

 

[shanejayell]

Maybe Xenexians (Is that the term?) have longer life spans? I dunno if it's been covered one way or the other, tho.

 

[JD]

Anyway, given recent events, we're not likely to read anything MU-related for a while now anyway so it's not like this is going to be put to the test...

Why do you say that?

 

[ronny]

Anyway, given recent events, we're not likely to read anything MU-related for a while now anyway so it's not like this is going to be put to the test...

Why do you say that?

Maybe the "recent event" he's talking about the publication of the 2010 schedule which doesn't show any MU books this year.

 

[Rat Boy]

Aside from Calhoun, the other Trek Lit reference I noticed in-game was that Andorians are listed as "chan/thaan" or "shen/zhen" under gender. Appropos of nothing related to Trek Lit, was I the only one who thought Kirayoshi O'Brien looks an awful lot like a young James Doohan?