Was Kirk gay
- Thread starter john titor
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Sure, by that reasoning we could speculate he was also a werewolf, postal worker, novitiate in Buenos Ares, or managing editor at The Village Voice.^Presumed nonexistent.
So Jadzia Dax was a pansexual?Pansexuality is what I'd think sexuality in a positive future with social progression would basically be. I think it would be beyond "gay". Of course, now, pansexuality is just another label, I think in the future things like sexual preferences would simply be a nonissue. If you want to sleep only with the opposite sex, that's fine, if you want to sleep with everyone, that's fine, and if you want to sleep only with the same sex, or a certain other species, or whatever the hell you want, that's fine too.
It'll just be aaaalllll gooooooood
Who knows, I like to pretend nothing happened in between TOS, I-VI, and ENT
Sure, by that reasoning we could speculate he was also a werewolf, postal worker, novitiate in Buenos Ares, or managing editor at The Village Voice.^Presumed nonexistent.
I don't see anybody stopping you.
No way man, both of them got the ladies.
No one is stopping anyone -- what is your point?Sure, by that reasoning we could speculate he was also a werewolf, postal worker, novitiate in Buenos Ares, or managing editor at The Village Voice.^Presumed nonexistent.
I don't see anybody stopping you.
A close friend could do it, especially if he also was male... as opposed to a female yeoman (whether the crucial difference is that she was female, or that she was not an old, close friend, or both - you decide.) The latter could easily be construed as inappropriate; Kirk obviously never thought that the former would. Which suggests that, alas, he didn't seriously consider the possibility that people could think of him and Spock as lovers...
Just like there are many women who would think it's perfectly OK to change or try on a bra in front of their best (female) friend, but not in the presence of males that they only know professionally.
It is very funny to see this scene as a confirmation of homosexuality, but it would be very weird if someone suggested that seriously... since it's more than obvious what the scene was really about. Kind of like the "are Kirk and Spock secretly lovers" thing in general: great as a joke, very silly and illogical if taken seriously.
Well, apparently we're now evolved past thinking that "a man and a woman can never be just friends, there's always going to be sex involved". Now, it's "NO TWO PEOPLE can ever be close friends - it's always about sex!"
Gah! I was thinking something of the sort just now. You know, the relationship of Frodo and Sam is totally intense, but has nothing to do with sexuality. At least that was not what Tolkien intended. Sam dropped everything to die beside Frodo because he loved him, but why does that necessarily have to mean it involves sexuality?
People can be extremely close without a sexual component. Frodo and Sam loved each other, and that's that. Same goes for Kirk and Spock, imho.
Hehehe - there is tons of speculation and even academic scholarship about the homoerotic undertones of the Lord of the Rings & the relationship between Frodo & Sam.
It's a pretty mainstream theory that Tolkien had a fear of women, and that the major love story in the LoTR is between Sam & Frodo - whether this love story was conciously intended by Tolkien or not.
See this review of one of the movies, for example:
http://www.evalu8.org/staticpage?page=review&siteid=5778
"The real, barely suppressed love story seems to happen between the hobbits. There's an impassioned bedroom scene near the end where Frodo is recovering and Sam comes to visit him that actually evoked titters at an advance screening. "
Clearly you have strong feelings about this type of relationship. Next time, try to find a way to express them without offending people.
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I know that, I'm something of a Tolkien scholar. Don't get me wrong, I'm aware of that, but what irks me is the fact that people make such a fuss over the thing, and PJ actually toned down the intensity of Sam's devotion to Frodo, probably because he thought people would go "lolz, they're like, gay, dude".
When I read the book for the first time, the love between Frodo and Sam impressed me so much it was one of the reasons I fell in love with LotR in the first place. It may have a homoerotic undertone, but the point is that it doesn't matter, and it should not become the object of ridicule. The focus is the intensity of that love, and not whether it is sexual or not. That may be so, but it is completely and utterly irrelevant.
Strong male relationships between men who have endured great duress together, particularly in war/battle situations have been a long time staple of literature and before widespread literacy, song. This served to offer soldiers an example to strive for and help create a model of friendship that could lead to self-sacrifice if necessary - in battle situations it is often necessary. It also offered a microcosmic example of sacrificing the self for one's people. It may seem cynical but it was a part of soldier building.
You have this kind of thing in medieval literature, too, in the Nibelungenlied, for example. And still there's always people who will say "hey man, that's so gay". Sigh.
And even if it were, so what?
And even if it were, so what?
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