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Castle: "A Rose for Everafter" 1/11/10 - Grading & Discussion

Grading


  • Total voters
    12

Aragorn

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Castle and Beckett are called to a wedding to investigate the murder of a bridesmaid. Castle realizes that the wedding is of a former girlfriend Kyra (Alyssa Milano). Everyone's feelings are compromised, since Kyra has doubts about who she is marrying, Castle's feelings may not be as objective in the case and Beckett picks up the connection between them, making her a little jealous and have poor judgment.
 
Looking forward to the return, no more Monday night football so I should be able to watch it "live" for a change.

Edit: Ok, enjoyed that one, good job with the mystery in this one, had me until the end. Just one thing though...HURRY UP AND GET HERE NEXT WEEK!!!.
 
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Looking forward to the return, no more Monday night football so I should be able to watch it "live" for a change.

Edit: Ok, enjoyed that one, good job with the mystery in this one, had me until the end. Just one thing though...HURRY UP AND GET HERE NEXT WEEK!!!.
I gave it an excellent. I really liked the realization on Kate's part that she does like Castle more than she's been willing to admit (I'm just not a fan of "let's drag out the angst" concept of sexual tension :rolleyes:; if you know where you're going with the characters, go there).

And I agree, I can hardly wait for next week!
 
I'd be happier if they didn't go in a romantic direction with Castle and Beckett. Keep it flirtatious but ultimately just friendly. Not enough male-female friendships on TV. And I hesitate to quote conventional wisdom, but romantic-tension premises do generally lose something once the romance is consummated.

Anyway, Alyssa Milano looked about as lovely as I've ever seen her. Although I wasn't crazy about the contrivance of a witness in the murder just happening to be Castle's old flame. They'd better not make a habit of doing stories like that. That way lies Jessica Fletcher.
 
I knew who the killer was simply because I recognized him from Galactica, but at least I didn't know why beforehand.

Condemn me for committing heresy, but I think Stana Katic is hotter than Alyssa Milano.
 
Thought it was excellent. Like the way the Castle/Beckett relationship is going and the way some of that was dealt with in this episode. Kinda wish the duct tape gag at the beginning had somehow involved Beckett or the wedding party, instead of being a mostly-viewer thing.

I'd be happier if they didn't go in a romantic direction with Castle and Beckett. Keep it flirtatious but ultimately just friendly. Not enough male-female friendships on TV.
(bolding mine)

Maybe, but that's the direction things have been heading for awhile now. And seeing how Castle's family relates to Beckett if things do keep heading in that direction should be lots of fun, since Castle-as-dad (and Castle-as-son to some extent) are such a big part of this show.

...but romantic-tension premises do generally lose something once the romance is consummated.

And this little nugget just annoys the crap out of me, because it suggests that the only thing interesting about a romantic relationship is the chase, and that once it's been consummated it loses it's luster or becomes boring somehow. Bollocks. It changes, yes, but it doesn't have to "lose something." That's fratboy (or sorority-girl?) thinking. See Friday Night Lights for a great example (examples, really) of how to do consummated-relationships very well, especially the Taylors.
 
Thought it was excellent. Like the way the Castle/Beckett relationship is going and the way some of that was dealt with in this episode. Kinda wish the duct tape gag at the beginning had somehow involved Beckett or the wedding party, instead of being a mostly-viewer thing.

Yeah, the duct-tape thing. That was stupid. It's insanely dangerous to leave a person tied up and alone. What if there's a fire? What if he falls down and cracks his head open? You'd think a playboy like Castle would be aware of the basic safety rules of bondage play. Alexis should've stayed with him and made sure he was safe.

...but romantic-tension premises do generally lose something once the romance is consummated.

And this little nugget just annoys the crap out of me, because it suggests that the only thing interesting about a romantic relationship is the chase, and that once it's been consummated it loses it's luster or becomes boring somehow. Bollocks. It changes, yes, but it doesn't have to "lose something." That's fratboy (or sorority-girl?) thinking.

Hey, I resent that. There's no excuse for making this a personal attack on me. Especially since I specifically said I wasn't comfortable repeating that bit of conventional wisdom. I don't personally believe that's the way it should be, so don't you dare accuse me of that. I absolutely DO NOT believe that's a principle that applies in real life. We're not talking about real life here, we're talking about a particular genre of television, an artificial construct. So you have no goddamn right to question my values or beliefs about real relationships, and I demand an apology.

My point is that, like it or not, history seems to support the cliche that television shows that are built around unconsummated romantic tension tend to suffer when that tension is consummated. That's got nothing to do with how real relationships should unfold; it's just that when a work of FICTION is built around one particular premise, then it may have trouble surviving a change in that premise. For instance, what would happen to a quest series if the object of the quest were achieved? Once Richard Kimble finds the one-armed man, once Dr. Banner finds a cure for the Hulk, once Galactica discovers Earth, what do you do next? Usually the series ends. A TV series is a question: Will they or won't they? Will the heroes achieve their goals? Once you answer the question that defines a show, it changes things fundamentally. And it isn't always easy to find a new question to sustain the series beyond that point.
 
Haha, let us know what you think of it Greg, I'd be interested in your opinion as an author yourself. I found the book just fine for light, non serious reading.
 
I knew who the killer was simply because I recognized him from Galactica, but at least I didn't know why beforehand.
Yeah, as soon as I saw him in the wedding party I knew it must be him, though at least WHY it was him was still a mystery till the end.
 
Thought it was excellent. Like the way the Castle/Beckett relationship is going and the way some of that was dealt with in this episode. Kinda wish the duct tape gag at the beginning had somehow involved Beckett or the wedding party, instead of being a mostly-viewer thing.

Yeah, the duct-tape thing. That was stupid. It's insanely dangerous to leave a person tied up and alone. What if there's a fire? What if he falls down and cracks his head open? You'd think a playboy like Castle would be aware of the basic safety rules of bondage play. Alexis should've stayed with him and made sure he was safe.

Yeah. Poorly thought out on everyone's parts, especially the writers.'

...but romantic-tension premises do generally lose something once the romance is consummated.

And this little nugget just annoys the crap out of me, because it suggests that the only thing interesting about a romantic relationship is the chase, and that once it's been consummated it loses it's luster or becomes boring somehow. Bollocks. It changes, yes, but it doesn't have to "lose something." That's fratboy (or sorority-girl?) thinking.
Hey, I resent that. There's no excuse for making this a personal attack on me. Especially since I specifically said I wasn't comfortable repeating that bit of conventional wisdom. I don't personally believe that's the way it should be, so don't you dare accuse me of that. I absolutely DO NOT believe that's a principle that applies in real life. We're not talking about real life here, we're talking about a particular genre of television, an artificial construct. So you have no goddamn right to question my values or beliefs about real relationships, and I demand an apology.

... err, I wasn't implying that you believe that fiction has to be that way, and I certainly would never suggest you think real life has to work that way. I've spent enough time in the TrekLit forum to know better, and think you're far too respectable as a writer and a person to hold those views yourself. That was directed towards the "common wisdom" itself, and anybody here who might hold those views, and especially at the (grantedly absent) writers who can't think of anything more creative to do with characters than have them chase each other, not towards you. Hence leaving the ellipsis and "but" in there.

As you apparently agree (yes?), I think showing a healthy romantic relationship between two adults after the "pursuit" has ended would be good for television and, honestly, as a counter to a bad cultural message.

ETA: But okay. Since you demanded, and I didn't mean anything against you personally, I apologize for not being completely clear that I wasn't directing my frustration with that line of reasoning at your own value system, and recognize that editing out your explicit line about being hesitant to repeat that may have been a mistake.

My point is that, like it or not, history seems to support the cliche that television shows that are built around unconsummated romantic tension tend to suffer when that tension is consummated. That's got nothing to do with how real relationships should unfold; it's just that when a work of FICTION is built around one particular premise, then it may have trouble surviving a change in that premise. For instance, what would happen to a quest series if the object of the quest were achieved? Once Richard Kimble finds the one-armed man, once Dr. Banner finds a cure for the Hulk, once Galactica discovers Earth, what do you do next? Usually the series ends. A TV series is a question: Will they or won't they? Will the heroes achieve their goals? Once you answer the question that defines a show, it changes things fundamentally. And it isn't always easy to find a new question to sustain the series beyond that point.

Well, but I don't know that the unconsummated romantic tension between Beckett and Castle is the basic premise. It's a very heavy part of the mix, definitely, but built around it? I think the basic premise is a fairly offbeat buddy cop show with a heart, and the twist of a mystery author working with a cop to help catch the bad guys. So the basic mechanic of "murder victim found, Castle and Beckett solve murder" doesn't have to change, but the overarching character threads and relationships that make Castle a different show from a CSI or Law & Order may change over time without changing the fundamental structure of the show.

And if I'm wrong, and it would change the show fundamentally (and not just the characters I mean), then let it change, creators! Trust your audience to accept a fundamental shift in the characters' relationship, because that's what people do.

Of course, this might also be just my wishing it to be, because the basic mechanic bores me while the growing relationship between Castle and Beckett (and Castlle's family) are what keep me watching, and if I knew that the creators had no intention of going anywhere with it I'd care a whole lot less.
 
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There's a reason why fairy tales often end with a "and they lived happily ever after."
I don't think relationships are necessarily more boring to watch than courtship, but it's probably more difficult to write. On the other hand, as shows go on, it also gets increasingly difficult to keep up the 'UST' in a believable manner.

As for this episode, it's another one that I enjoyed watching. I don't care that much about the murder-mysteries, but I like these characters.
A show I liked for very different reasons would be BSG. Especially by the later seasons, I disliked almost all of the characters, but the plot kept my interest.
 
Generally, the problem with active relationships in TV is that fiction requires conflict and crisis, so TV romances generally end up getting placed in one arbitrary crisis after another to the point that it becomes ridiculous and frustrating. I for one would rather seen a continuing, unconsummated attraction than an active relationship that's doomed to perpetual turmoil. It's not as painful to watch. (Of course, I'd like to see a happy, stable relationship more than either of those, but there's little drama in that. Stories are about things going wrong, not things going right.)
 
I knew who the killer was simply because I recognized him from Galactica, but at least I didn't know why beforehand.
Agreed. It's a flaw in many TV detective shows that the killer is often the more recognizable actor from the list of suspects. Milano I discounted because her purpose in the script wasn't necessarily that of "suspect", but rather, as has been mentioned, that she was there as "old flame".
 
I for one would rather seen a continuing, unconsummated attraction than an active relationship that's doomed to perpetual turmoil
The problem is that the obstacles to the consummation of said attraction are often as arbitrary and obviously made up for story purposes as those in portrayed relationships. That's not so apparent in a show's first or second season, but gets increasingly obvious with further episodes..
 
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