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James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

Grade "Avatar"

  • Excellent

    Votes: 166 50.0%
  • Above Average

    Votes: 85 25.6%
  • Average

    Votes: 51 15.4%
  • Below Average

    Votes: 11 3.3%
  • Terrible

    Votes: 19 5.7%

  • Total voters
    332
That is true Ryan.

It was horrible. And you put it very well, the slower scenes were gorgeous, but the true action was just as generic as everything else. And the story line was pure hot trash.

And I agree with you about how it will be judged by future audiences. It won't be cool and kish like Star Wars 4-6 but more of a joke like Phantom Menace.
 
I liked the movie quite a bit.

Enjoyed the 3D bit too. I think a lot of time was spent making the 3D better. One of the problems I have had previously with 3D movies (And I'm looking at Superman Returns) is that only the main foreground action is in 3D - if they try to achieve 3D thruout the screen area then I would see double images towards the edges of the screen with 3D content only in the center. It would make it look vaguely like a pop-up book. However Avatar seemed more subtle to me and had impressive 3D graphics.

Re the story - there were a couple of scenes that made me a little uncomfortable - primarily when the military convoy is getting battered/hit on all sides. I just felt vaguely that other countries might view it as anti-American even tho' it's made clear in the movie that these are a mercenary security force and not the Earth or US Army. But overall it was amazing.

I thought Zoe Saldana completely owned the movie. Neytiri was at once beautiful, alien and HOT. And Sam Worthington is becoming a SFF kinda guy. Besides Terminator Salvation (that I now look forward to watching for the first time) and this one, he's also going to be in Clash of the Titans (which was previewed before Avatar). Sigourney Weaver is still a hottie. And so is Michelle Rodrigues - wish her luck after her career kinda got derailed post all the alcohol abuse.


The one weird thing that I noticed was that during the beginning of the movie I couldn't make out what was being said. Either the sound was wrong or the theater was noisy or something. Did anybody else have the same problem as me?

And I think it would have been interesting if Jake Sully had been some other ethnicity. James Cameron does a great job casting his sf movie villains. I thought Stephen Lang as Colonel Miles Q was awesome. I thought some of his gung-ho comments (back by dinner) and attitude (drinking from that container and watching the proceedings) was great.

IMDB lists the fact that the arrows don't penetrate during the Tree-Razing sequence and then actually penetrate the glass later as a goof. I thought that the reason was due to everybody being in flight - it would have added more weight to the arrows. Also - at one point it's mentioned that the arrows contain neurotoxins. But there doesn't seem to be much need of that. Since those arrows look like spears that completely go thru the smaller human bodies. Also while we do see a couple of nasty predators we don't see where they got the neurotoxin from - was it from a plant source or animal source? The Navi are clearly carnivorous - including pointed canine teeth - but have a surprisingly "respectful" attitude towards their prey - is their any correlation to any human tribes/customs? Also, I thought Jake Sully was being insincere almost until the point that he wakes up and smashes up the cameras for that bulldozer. And I kinda wondered why that wasn't more a part of the movie. Why does he not try to *do* something when he's been given 3 months to get the Navi to move. He seems to wait for his "Navi" ceremony in order to begin talking to them. That didn't make too much sense. I would have thought that he would have tried to influence Neytiri and the Navi more with what the humans are all about too. In a sense, Jake literally wakes up to know that the deadline is over. Maybe he was just biding his time till he got thru to some Neytiri tail and didn't want to rock the boat until he'd rocked her. Still - he doesn't seem to be working with a plan. Also - there doesn't seem to be any plan or goal to Doc Grace and the scientist's anthropological interest in the Navi. They don't quiz Jake about their religion or social customs or anything - there's one comment about getting a sample from the Eywa Tree region which is vaguely scientific but I didn't get a good sense of what kinda outreach was being attempted.

Also, and this is a minor crib, but the company doing the mining in Pandora needed a name. We have Ingen, we have Skynet, we have Weyland-Yutani and this company needed to join the list. If there was a name, I missed it completely.
 
I thought the action was very compelling and well-staged. The destruction of Hometree, the final battle at the end and the fight between Quaritch in his mech warrior suit verses Jake in his avatar was truly stunning to behold.
 
It won't be cool and kish like Star Wars 4-6 but more of a joke like Phantom Menace.

You think the quality of the SFX has anything whatsoever to do with the general opinion that the original Star Wars trilogy is better than the prequels?

Avatar has a good story but one lots of people will not like because it is quite a bit left leaning, with a strong environmental message.

While half the population of the world, especially many Americans, has their fingers in their ears over the environment and the issues surrounding it then this will always be the case.

A message of "if something is special and unique you should not destroy it to make money" being controversial in any way whatsoever makes the human race look pretty pathetic really.
 
I'm not equating fx with how it will withstand the test of time. It's story sucks and the cgi are not that ground breaking as everyone is making it out to be.
 
I"ll grant that its narrative is simplistic, but then again, so is the narrative of Star Wars. And, since the visual effects are much more photo-realistic, the performances (for the most part) much less wooden, and the dialogue at least passable, I think Avatar will have a much longer life than the Star Wars prequels. Well, it would, if the Star Wars brand wasn't so damned pervasive.
 
I"ll grant that its narrative is simplistic, but then again, so is the narrative of Star Wars. And, since the visual effects are much more photo-realistic, the performances (for the most part) much less wooden, and the dialogue at least passable, I think Avatar will have a much longer life than the Star Wars prequels. Well, it would, if the Star Wars brand wasn't so damned pervasive.

Agreed. I thought Avatar was far more entertaining and well-made than any of the Star Wars prequels, besides maybe Revenge of the Sith.
 
I'm not equating fx with how it will withstand the test of time. It's story sucks and the cgi are not that ground breaking as everyone is making it out to be.

Well everyone is making out that the completely new 3D process allows a truly immersive cinema experience heightened by very cleverly implemented CG to create a plausible alien world.

What other film does the same?
 
I"ll grant that its narrative is simplistic, but then again, so is the narrative of Star Wars. And, since the visual effects are much more photo-realistic, the performances (for the most part) much less wooden, and the dialogue at least passable, I think Avatar will have a much longer life than the Star Wars prequels. Well, it would, if the Star Wars brand wasn't so damned pervasive.

Agreed. I thought Avatar was far more entertaining and well-made than any of the Star Wars prequels, besides maybe Revenge of the Sith.
I'd say that Avatar almost completely avoids the gaffes that plagued the Prequels. But it is also a "safer," more generic movie, especially in terms of characters and story. On that level, despite their flaws, I find the Prequels that much more enjoyable and entertaining than Avatar.

Though, I'll say this: Attack of the Clones is the perfect example of a film that loses its luster after repeated viewings. The final Geonosis battle was absolutely thrilling during the midnight show. Now, I can barely sit through the film.


I'm not equating fx with how it will withstand the test of time. It's story sucks and the cgi are not that ground breaking as everyone is making it out to be.

Well everyone is making out that the completely new 3D process allows a truly immersive cinema experience heightened by very cleverly implemented CG to create a plausible alien world.

What other film does the same?
You have a point about the purposeful use of 3D, but I'd counter that there were times that the 3D effects took me out of the film and established another barrier that had to be overcome -- instead of fully immersing me in the world of Pandora. I'd say the CGI does a better job of immersion than the 3D.
 
Also, and this is a minor crib, but the company doing the mining in Pandora needed a name. We have Ingen, we have Skynet, we have Weyland-Yutani and this company needed to join the list. If there was a name, I missed it completely.

RDA

So he make enough money out of the Stargate franchise to set up an evil megacorporation? ;)

ETA: I'm told it stands for "Resources Development Administration". That true?
 
Watched the movie second time, still haven't seen it in 3 D.

It struck me there were similarities to a novel by Alan Dean Foster titled Midworld, anybody else ever read it?
 
I'd like to point out that in Alien, the corporation has no name. It is simply the corporation; though the name for the corp in the sequel film apparently comes from a can with the label Weylan-Yutani (yes, no d); I forget whether or not this was an intentional reference at the time. It doesn't really need a name either - it's the corporation of the military-industrial complex; we know exactly the role such an often ambiguously defined entity plays in a morality play like Avatar.

Also, stj's assertion that the reference to freedom fighters is racist is fairly absurd, for two reasons, the first of which being is it's certainly intentional as ironic (fitting in with, well, every single reference to American foreign policy in the film -terror with terror, shock and awe, humane, it's the language these people use) and also because even if sincere it's not racist.

You can call it jingoist, ultrapatriotic, directly descended from the racial predicate of the White Man's Burden (a poem written in response to America acquiring the Phillippines and an injunction by Kipling for the Americans to follow the British in being responsible imperialists, regardless of how thankless the task is, mind), you could even fairly call it a culturalist prejudice but that prejudice is not a racial prejudice anymore than a prejudice against women is. It can indeed be inclusive of nonwhite races also and that's pretty much the barometer. If black soldiers can impose order on a white populated area like Kosovo, well, we've wandered far off the beaten track of this racist identity.

Also, Mr. Laser Beam, if we gave the film a positive depiction of soldiers we would be introducing moral ambiguity. The film proceeds upon the stark black/white lines you like so much: The only way the soldiers can be seen as good people is if they're fighting on the right side, as indeed Vasquez is (I've just seen the film for a second time, first time I've done that for a movie in theatres since ROTK, did she ever get a name?). I fighting on the side of the bad guys they need precisely as much sympathy as a stormtrooper gets, no? They know what they've gotten into; I can see them smiling when discussing the destruction of the Tree of Souls. At least the corporate sleazebag gets a few close-up shots of remorse so we don't feel too bad that he survived.

Also, I don't know if anyone pointed this out, but the original TNG Vasquez-ish role was in fact Tasha Yar. Hence the 'ethnic' name and origin story for a blonde-haired all-American girl (Marina Sirtis had been cast in this ethnic role but famously the actresses were switched.)

Oh yes, damn, and I love this movie. 3D does strain the eyeballs though, if I see it a third time (possible) it'll be in 2D. In every respect, including the preachy environmentalism, this is a film I would have made as a kid. (Hey, I was a kid of the nineties, raised on National Geographic magazines, Pocahontas, Ferngully, save the whales, that whole shebang. The film's tendentious earnestness itself makes me feel nostalgic.)
 
Kegg - did a 2nd viewing affect your 'average' grade? (if I remember right) Did it improve, or did you see more problems?
 
I saw more nitpicky problems and I think in retrospect 3D is less of a great idea. The eye strain is just too much for a film of that length. Ultimately if there's one revolution this film isn't going to make, I think, it's making 3D the norm. It'll be a gimmick until they find a way to remove that strain, which I presume would take some sort of holography.

It didn't effect my grade much, though I was also far more forgiving because I knew what the flaws were and just glided over them, waiting for the next cool bit.
 
You're assuming, Kegg, that everyone experiences eye strain.

I've seen it twice so far, once wearing contacts and once with my glasses, and I had no eye strain whatsoever. I thought the 3D was incredible.

Going to see it again next weekend! :D
 
Kegg - Where did you sit in the theater? Most recommend sitting as far back as possible if you experience eye-strain, but there could be other causes as well. Did you see it in IMAX or RealD/Dolby?
 
This is probably because I saw it with a group of people and they all said that to me coming out of the theatre, and I've had eye-strain twice. I've also seen many complaints about it online. Does everyone experience eye-strain? Evidently not. But probably enough for that to be an issue to be looked into, no?

Also, I wore my spectacles both times, if that counts for anything (does it? I'm not an optician). Both times I was near the back of the theatre, and it was a regular 3D showing, not IMAX.
 
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