Is "Nemesis" an underrated movie?

[RoJoHen]

It has the space battles, sure. It also has a villain with an unbelievably nonsensical motive, and the story is absolutely ridiculous.

Sounds alot like Star Trek 2009!

Well, I'd argue that while Nero's motives weren't made terrible clear in the film, and while he may have gone overboard with his plan of destroying Vulcan and Earth, he was pretty much driven mad with grief and a lust for revenge. He was also a patriot and was trying to make the Romulans a great empire without the Federation and Vulcans standing in the way. Granted, a lot of this you don't know unless you read the "Countdown" pre-quel comic, which is unfortunate. While I loved the new movie, I thought Nero was a very poorly-defined villain. However, I have so much fun watching the rest that I quickly forget about it.

Shinzon's motives were simply ridiculous. He wasn't a Romulan patriot. Hell, he fucking hated Romulans. He never hated humans. This would have been far more interesting and logical if Shinzon had been attacking the Romulan Empire and the Enterprise had to stop him, rather than just deciding to blow up Earth because he was cranky.

 

[RoJoHen]

I went into the theater expecting a look into the romulan culture, instead got an emo picard clone throwing a temper tantrum. While it did have good points, in my personal opinion it was lacking as a trek film. I have a similar opinion of TFF, but playing devils advocate for a moment I think both had great potential even with the problems.

I feel the same way. Finally, this was supposed to be a movie about Romulans! No Klingons...no Borg...Romulans! I was fucking excited. Then it turned out not to be about Romulans at all.

I love TFF for the characters. Out of all the movies, I feel like TFF best exemplifies the Kirk/Spock/McCoy Friendship. The story? Meh, it's not awesome, and I've definitely fallen asleep watching it once or twice, but I've seen worse.

 

[Kaziarl]

I went into the theater expecting a look into the romulan culture, instead got an emo picard clone throwing a temper tantrum. While it did have good points, in my personal opinion it was lacking as a trek film. I have a similar opinion of TFF, but playing devils advocate for a moment I think both had great potential even with the problems.

I feel the same way. Finally, this was supposed to be a movie about Romulans! No Klingons...no Borg...Romulans! I was fucking excited. Then it turned out not to be about Romulans at all.

I love TFF for the characters. Out of all the movies, I feel like TFF best exemplifies the Kirk/Spock/McCoy Friendship. The story? Meh, it's not awesome, and I've definitely fallen asleep watching it once or twice, but I've seen worse.

Oh, I can definitely agree. I loved the character interaction. It was everything else that tends to make me momentarily consider skipping TFF when I decide to do my marathon viewings, which takes considerably longer then it used too, lol.

 

[knine]

Nemesis isn't on my list of top 10 worst sci-fi films. I'd watch it again before watching Superman IV or Transformers 2.

When it came out, I saw two types of reviews. 1 - The nitpicker review that was going to find every single thing wrong (The Romulan Ale is the wrong color, The effects all look Star Wars, We need 30 minutes of scenes explaining why Worf and Wesley are there, Picard's head is too bald), and 2 - Legitimate reviews that showed the movie had real issues.

Some ideas in the film were good. It needed 2 - 3 more drafts and some script reviews to really nail down what it should have been. And they should have released in May, not December (not saying that only moving the release date would have changed that the movie was not that great).

Finally, I didn't see it posted. No Nemesis thread is complete without this link:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html

 

[USS KG5]

Does anyone else think it's underrated?

You will have a lot of people come in here and say it is totally awful, one of the worst films ever made etc., and it is certainly not one of the worst films ever made.

The biggest problem with it is the proportion of people phoning in their involvement, there is a serious air of "will this do" about the whole thing.

It is on its own merits a decent enough little film, on a par with something like Death Race (2009) or Valkyrie. I think some fans were very disappointed with it, but then many fans were with the new film, so you can't necessarily read much into that.

It was basically a tired film from a very tired franchise, and while not out-and-out bad, it certainly isn't out and out good (though its better than "Insurrection").

 

[Captain Robert April]

Insurrection is a work of genius compared to Nemesis.

 

[Dane_Whitman]

So please explain to me why he decided to attack Earth.

What I got from the movie was that Shinzon's biggest gripe wasn't with the Romulans but with his own inferiority complex. He was a clone of the great Picard, probably the most well-known captain in Starfleet and considered a formidable man throughout the Alpha Quadrant. Blowing up Earth was the greatest atrocity he could think of, something that would finally allow him to 'rise above Picard'.

At least that's what I got from these lines:

Not for long, Captain. I'm afraid you won't survive to witness the victory of the echo over the voice.

And as Earth dies, remember, I will always, forever, be Shinzon of Remus. And my voice shall echo through time long after yours has faded to a dim memory!

 

[DarKush]

I had to watch NEM a second time to get Shinzon's motivation. I got it, but I just felt it was way too convoluted. It made far more sense for Shinzon to want to wipe out the Romulans than to have this hatred for Picard, a person who had no part in his creation. Perhaps Shinzon's motivation would've worked better if Patrick Stewart had played Shinzon and you could better see how he is a shadow or echo of Picard. Shinzon is basically a totally different person with very different life experiences despite being a genetic duplicate. The Romulans dropped him in the mines when he was a kid so how much could he know about Picard anyway, to develop this pathological hatred for him?

I think it would've made more sense for Shinzon to want to wipe out Romulus and Picard and company attempt to stop him, and the battle results in peace with the Romulans, which would've been a great way to close out TNG and 24th century Trek, peace with the last major, long running antagonist. I really think aping TWOK was a mistake. They should've tried copying TUDC instead.

 

[RoJoHen]

^That is exactly how I feel about it.

 

[Starbreaker]

After watching that video review of Nemesis, I now absolutely hate it.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

After watching that video review of Nemesis, I now absolutely hate it.

Then it's a good thing that I never read reviews of any kind!

 

[Bad Atom]

I'm glad someone came up with the word "meh" because it perfectly describes the movie to me. It's not the nightmarish ass-rape of a film disaster some around here make it out to be, but it's hardly a brilliant piece of cinema either. It's just... there.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I've noticed that Stuart Baird has gone back to editing. Apparently, Nemesis effectively killed his directing career, at least for the time being.

 

[Search4]

I had to watch NEM a second time to get Shinzon's motivation. I got it, but I just felt it was way too convoluted. It made far more sense for Shinzon to want to wipe out the Romulans than to have this hatred for Picard, a person who had no part in his creation. Perhaps Shinzon's motivation would've worked better if Patrick Stewart had played Shinzon and you could better see how he is a shadow or echo of Picard. Shinzon is basically a totally different person with very different life experiences despite being a genetic duplicate. The Romulans dropped him in the mines when he was a kid so how much could he know about Picard anyway, to develop this pathological hatred for him?

I think it would've made more sense for Shinzon to want to wipe out Romulus and Picard and company attempt to stop him, and the battle results in peace with the Romulans, which would've been a great way to close out TNG and 24th century Trek, peace with the last major, long running antagonist. I really think aping TWOK was a mistake. They should've tried copying TUDC instead.

Bingo. Right answer.

 

[Tomalak]

I sort of agree with that, in that it would have been better, but how about not copying a previous film at all? You know, making up an original story?

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

After watching that video review of Nemesis, I now absolutely hate it.

Hmm, could you provide a link to the review?

 

[TMPFan]

Bad Atom I agree, in retrospect it is not the unmitigated disaster people make it out to be; hell, I don't even think it is Attack of the Clones bad (that was on TV a few nights ago, it is in my head still...was I supposed to laugh out loud that much during that particular film???). I think for me and maybe others here, Nemesis is associated with arguably the lowest point in the history of the franchise. I remember when I walked out of the theater after Nemesis and the feeling I had that Trek was going bye bye (funny how things worked out on that). Be that as it may, Nemesis is a seriously flawed film (bad villian, shitty script, too much Brent Spiner etc...) and it is rated quite appropriately by fans for the most part.

 

[Tomalak]

After watching that video review of Nemesis, I now absolutely hate it.

Hmm, could you provide a link to the review?

I posted it on the first page.

Here.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I just rewatched Nemesis the other night because i received the TNG Blu-ray set. I would have never believed it but i liked the movie even less in Blu-ray. I never liked the wedding scene (i thought it was written poorly, Picard was so out of character and Stewart's acting seemed forced, along with everyone else's)....

And on Blu-ray the sets and CGI looked even worse than before! OY!

 

[Treker]

The wedding was ok. Dianna looking good but what I don't like is the beard.

I mean why the hell did they go to the trouble of having him shave it as an act to seduce her?

Remember it was YUCK!!!!

Generic romulan ale reference?? Not needed lol

No Lwaxanna? After they used her multiple times in DS9 that was a bit of a miss.

I hate the farting warp engines. No blue flash just a puff of smoke.

Even so how did Shinzon catch up with the Enterprize? That bit doesn't make sense. Even the D could do warp 9.9. Is the E slower or something?

Edit : One more thing, why the hell did Geordi havve to go to the trouble of having his big "initiate the forcefield" moment to shield the warpcore that was going to get knocked out in ONE SHOT.

This movie really is full of holes.