The Diane Carey novels

[Christopher]

If she didn't like TNG, why did she write in that universe? Was somebody holding a phaser to her head?

Probably more like somebody was offering her a large monetary advance for it. A person's got to make a living. If someone offers you a book contract, and the pay is good, it's hard not to say yes. Heck, I've taken on a two or three assignments that I didn't think were up my alley, but I managed to adapt and make them work.

 

[Greg Cox]

I turned down an offer to write a non-fiction book on skateboarding once, but that's about it. When you're a freelance writer, you go where the work is.

The only time you turn down a paying gig is when you have a better one lined up!

 

[ronny]

I have read MANY Trek books that could have been written by Michael Moore, but I don't complain; I just enjoy the story for what it is...

Rob

Examples please, and dedication pages don't count.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Maybe the reason he and I don't want to name names is because those guys are still writing Trek....

 

[David cgc]

^Maybe the reason he and I don't want to name names is because those guys are still writing Trek....

And? When has that ever stopped anyone from criticizing anything before? Or even outright personal hostility?

 

[Daddy Todd]

I have read MANY Trek books that could have been written by Michael Moore, but I don't complain; I just enjoy the story for what it is...

Rob

Examples please, and dedication pages don't count.

Yeah, my request for examples has gone unanswered as well, which leads me to suspect there aren't any. It was just a lame attempt to create a false equivalency: "If my side does it, then your side must, too."

Even though they don't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There was Fahrenheit 359, Roger Korby and Me, and Bowling for Columbia NX-02

 

[Christopher]

^Okay, I get all of those but the first one. What's the Trek significance of the number 359?

EDIT: Never mind, I got it -- Wolf 359. My problem was that I was "hearing" it in my head as "three-fifty-nine," in keeping with Fahrenheit 451, rather than "three-five-nine."

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I have read MANY Trek books that could have been written by Michael Moore, but I don't complain; I just enjoy the story for what it is...

Rob

Examples please, and dedication pages don't count.

I have three examples that come to mind immediately, two of an anti-religious nature and one of a far-left political nature; however, I went years without reading Treklit after "Olympus Descending." Since then, I've only read the Treklit books sporadically, and in MOST cases only when I could find said books at used book stores.

Some of you may think these things are not offensive; however, there is no arguing that they are ideologically charged.

--The "A Time To..." series and the very thinly veiled Bush assassination fantasy with Min Zife. That one just about made me SICK. And before you say I wouldn't care if someone talked about Obama that way, I HAVE gone on the record criticizing a fanfic where that happened--even though the plot was more, evil aliens going back in time and doing that, not a WISH for it to happen, I still found it upsetting to contemplate. Regardless of my politics! That sort of thing makes me VERY uncomfortable. And the "A Time To..." thing even worse because it seemed like a WISH for something bad to happen to Bush, like a delight in it. Oh yeah, there was a little bit of "Oh, bad Section 31! BAD!" at the end, but it really felt like an attempt to put lipstick on a pig.

--Well of Souls, in which the Cardassian religion (the Oralian Way) was undermined by suggesting that the pre-Hebitians built their religion around a deception by the Dithparu (sp.?). Seriously, why can't a Trek race have beliefs without being portrayed as deluded or worshipping something undeserving? (Now, SCE is a nice break from this, as I recall Captain Gold being portrayed very nicely. )

--"Olympus Descending": Boy, if that whole thing wasn't a Nietzschean "God is Dead" scenario, I don't know what is!

Again, after "Olympus Descending," I only read Treklit sporadically...so, there are gaps in my knowledge and that's a reason I cannot supply more examples. There may be more out there, but that's all I can recall right now.

That said, NOT all of the authors that write Treklit seem to put far-left politics into their works, and we have also seen some right-of-center examples or others that are apolitical. (I would also add that the Terok Nor trilogy did seem to undo some of the damage to the Oralian Way not just in the literal sense of the plot, but also as far as portraying Oralian characters as something MORE than just deluded fools.) But there HAVE been some glaring examples of left-of-center writing as well.

 

[stonester1]

Look at me. I have a copy of Last Full Measure, in which Mike Martin dedicates the bloody thing to Cindy Sheehan. And then he goes on an anti-Iraq-War rant.

What do I do? I roll my eyes, shake my head...and keep on reading, accepting the book for what it is--a darn good read!

And no, I didn't rip that page out o' the book.

Again, it's not a matter of disagreeing with her politics. It's having characters soapbox in such a way that seems either inappropriate for the situation, or just dumb, just so she can soapbox (or have the characters she likes spouting HER (not necessarily their) views).

She doesn't do it often, so it's never ruined a book for me. But the examples I gave out of "Best Destiniy" were WTF moments.

I would have the same reaction if a character in the middle of coping with an emergency situation went on a left wing rant.

And no one here who says they "agree" with Diane Carrey's views have yet to explain to me why in an emergency situation on a planet would it be a good idea for the government just to stay out of it, based on any REAL evidence (ie historical backup, rather than idealogical belief/fervor).

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

About Carey, my question is, is she a libertarian simply believing in small government restricted to military/infrastructure roles, or is she an anarcho-libertarian? Which one is she?

 

[stonester1]

I have read MANY Trek books that could have been written by Michael Moore, but I don't complain; I just enjoy the story for what it is...

Rob

Examples please, and dedication pages don't count.

I have three examples that come to mind immediately, two of an anti-religious nature and one of a far-left political nature; however, I went years without reading Treklit after "Olympus Descending." Since then, I've only read the Treklit books sporadically, and in MOST cases only when I could find said books at used book stores.

Some of you may think these things are not offensive; however, there is no arguing that they are ideologically charged.

--The "A Time To..." series and the very thinly veiled Bush assassination fantasy with Min Zife. That one just about made me SICK. And before you say I wouldn't care if someone talked about Obama that way, I HAVE gone on the record criticizing a fanfic where that happened--even though the plot was more, evil aliens going back in time and doing that, not a WISH for it to happen, I still found it upsetting to contemplate. Regardless of my politics! That sort of thing makes me VERY uncomfortable. And the "A Time To..." thing even worse because it seemed like a WISH for something bad to happen to Bush, like a delight in it. Oh yeah, there was a little bit of "Oh, bad Section 31! BAD!" at the end, but it really felt like an attempt to put lipstick on a pig.

--Well of Souls, in which the Cardassian religion (the Oralian Way) was undermined by suggesting that the pre-Hebitians built their religion around a deception by the Dithparu (sp.?). Seriously, why can't a Trek race have beliefs without being portrayed as deluded or worshipping something undeserving? (Now, SCE is a nice break from this, as I recall Captain Gold being portrayed very nicely. )

--"Olympus Descending": Boy, if that whole thing wasn't a Nietzschean "God is Dead" scenario, I don't know what is!

Again, after "Olympus Descending," I only read Treklit sporadically...so, there are gaps in my knowledge and that's a reason I cannot supply more examples. There may be more out there, but that's all I can recall right now.

That said, NOT all of the authors that write Treklit seem to put far-left politics into their works, and we have also seen some right-of-center examples or others that are apolitical. (I would also add that the Terok Nor trilogy did seem to undo some of the damage to the Oralian Way not just in the literal sense of the plot, but also as far as portraying Oralian characters as something MORE than just deluded fools.) But there HAVE been some glaring examples of left-of-center writing as well.

Agreed. I am glad there are creators and writers out there in Trek who ARE respectful of religion and spirituality (including in my fav series, DS9) and don't see it all as "deception" or something to "outgrow".

 

[Cap'n Crunch]

Ship of the Line - The absolute worst of the worst. I just don't know how you can base a book on a couple minutes of screen time and get every detail of those 2 minutes so wrong. Don't need to repeat what's been said in this thread. And the idea that Kirk is such a god like figure that the presence of a hologram is all it takes for Picard to think "Hey, maybe I could be a good captain after all". I don't like to give motives to authors but I just can't help but think that Carey had a story she wanted to tell and just willfully ignored what was on screen. And I didn't believe for one second the Picard in the book is the Picard we've seen on screen.

I totally agree with this.

Ancient Blood - Main plot is OK at but the sub plot of having Alexander learning about honor from a Naval battle hologram, oh, and he's named after some relative who fought in the Revolution. How did that happen? I thought K'Ehleyr named him. What did she do, go through Worf's adoptive parents family tree to find a hero to name their son? That just doesn't seem plausible to me.

I haven't read this book, but K'Ehleyr was half human too. Maybe it was one of her relatives. However, I could be wrong, for all I know the book says it was one of Worf's.

I've never really noticed her politics in any of the books I've read. Of course, the only books of her's I've read are Final Frontier, Best Destiny, Invasion!: First Strike, Ghost Ship, Double Helix: Red Sector, Ship of the Line, and several novelizations. (Well that's more than I thought, but still less than half of her Star Trek entries.) Of those, I liked Final Frontier, Best Destiny, and First Strike. I didn't care for Ghost Ship but since it was written before an episode ever aired I'll give it a pass. I don't remember much about Red Sector or the novelizations too well, but I enjoyed the episodes they were based on .

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

stonester--That was one thing I loved about the portrayal of the Bajoran religion on DS9--it was really, TRULY even-handed. We had everything from sincere believers to terrorist fanatics to legalists who used it to justify their own power...we had ignorant Bajorans, educated Bajorans, tolerant ones, intolerant ones, all types represented. And that's what any major religion looks like, even the one that I myself believe in: like a mixed bag because it is filled with PEOPLE.

 

[stonester1]

stonester--That was one thing I loved about the portrayal of the Bajoran religion on DS9--it was really, TRULY even-handed. We had everything from sincere believers to terrorist fanatics to legalists who used it to justify their own power...we had ignorant Bajorans, educated Bajorans, tolerant ones, intolerant ones, all types represented. And that's what any major religion looks like, even the one that I myself believe in: like a mixed bag because it is filled with PEOPLE.

Exactly, and thus it will always be. People are imperfect and will fall short. If they didn't, there would be no need for religion. And if people didn't grow spiritually, there would be nothing to contrast with as "evidence" for the power of spirit and, indirectly, if you believe, a piece of evidence for what lies beyond.

 

[Steve Roby]

I have read MANY Trek books that could have been written by Michael Moore, but I don't complain; I just enjoy the story for what it is...

Examples please, and dedication pages don't count.

I have three examples that come to mind immediately, two of an anti-religious nature and one of a far-left political nature;

There are conservative and libertarian atheists out there, including a good old friend of mine, whereas Michael Moore is Catholic. So you have, arguably, one relevant example, not three, because the anti-religion thing cannot be linked to the Left. Or you would if any major American leftists had called for the death of George Bush, but since they didn't, and since the A Time To... books were not just a Bush allegory, that doesn't really work too well either.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, it's just reading way too much into things to assume that a story about an alien religion is meant to be a commentary on real religions, or that the fate of a fictional political leader who's influenced in some aspects by a real political leader is meant to be a wish about the fate of that real leader. That's just misunderstanding what storytelling is. Sure, there are some people in the world whose stories are nothing more than thinly veiled polemic, but that's not usually the case.

 

[stonester1]

Yeah, it's just reading way too much into things to assume that a story about an alien religion is meant to be a commentary on real religions, or that the fate of a fictional political leader who's influenced in some aspects by a real political leader is meant to be a wish about the fate of that real leader. That's just misunderstanding what storytelling is. Sure, there are some people in the world whose stories are nothing more than thinly veiled polemic, but that's not usually the case.

True.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The Min Zife thing, however, was very, very, VERY thin---very poor writing for its transparency, and the sheer transparency frankly does make it read like someone's assassination fantasy.

 

[David cgc]

As I said last time we discussed it, Min Zife's fate was supposed to be sickening. It was no more a "fantasy" than, say, the hundred light-year deadzone post-Destiny. Sure, you could say it's the view of a terrorist sympathizer wanting the western world (represented by the Federation) to have it's chickens come home to roost for their arrogance and sinfulness (hey, they blew up Risa of all places) and soft imperialism. It's a Sci-Fi take on Al Queda's ultimate goal!

But it's wasn't any of those things, so let's not say that.