If anyone can stomach another viewing of "Code of Honor" ...

[Joel_Kirk]

And they certainly weren't portrayed as "savage;" they had a high technology.

They are primitive barbarians who by pure chance are sitting on a find the white man wants. They also have a plot conveinent transporter device, but that's curiosially at odds with the largely tribalistic portrayal of their society.

See, here's where I think the stereotypes are not on the part of the episode. Why does a highly technological society have to look and dress and talk like present-day America or Europe? Why assume that their clothes and their accents are automatically "primitive" and "tribal" just because they're more African than Western?

Yes, they're portrayed as less advanced than the 24th-century Federation, but they have transporters and energy beams and clearly represent a technology in advance of what we have in the present. Hardly primitive. And where do you get "tribal" from? What connection could that possibly have to the social organization actually depicted in the episode? "Highly structured," analogous to Sung-Dynasty China (I misspoke when I said Ming), a society where women own land and men protect and rule it, a world with a planetary government... nothing in that is "tribal," a word referring to a non-state or pre-state level of social organization based on kinship ties. You're just using that as a derogatory label rather than an anthropologically accurate designation.

See, the problem isn't just with the episode, it's with society. The script depicted a culture that was an amalgam of numerous non-Western Earth civilizations, with elements of China, Native American societies, and so forth. I think if the actors had been white like in an old-school Trek episode, viewers would've had no problem accepting the culture as written as one that was merely exotic. But they cast black actors and had them use African accents, and suddenly the viewers projected all sorts of racist assumptions and expectations onto the episode. There's nothing in the script that suggests tribalism, but your preconceptions equate that word with images of Africans in traditional garb or something similar. Now, maybe it was a mistake on the part of the people who produced the episode not to recognize what a quagmire they were stepping in with their casting, but the ultimate fault here is spread much more widely.

Very good post...

I can't see what's so bad about it.

It's chiefly the racism (savage black men want white woh-mon), though even besides that it's a pretty goofy hour of TV.

Isn't there another thread speaking about this same episode...? Going over the same things?

Lutan wasn't savage at all....

...and there is nothing wrong with him going after Tasha Yar...(So what? Black man goes after a white woman! *gasp*)

I'm a black man going after Asian women! (Am I considered savage for 'dating out'?)

Trek has had white men going after women of other races (black, Asian, etc) for decades, and they weren't considered savage....

I think you and I chatted about this as well, Kegg....

General sidenote to no one in particular: And how did we get from talking about the 'episode soundtracks' to 'black men or dark-skinned men who go after women of other races are considered savages'....or what have you...?

 

[Holder]

Funny, I just dusted off my Season 1 DVDs. I watched 'Code of Honor' over the weekend and agree the music harkens back to TOS.

But oh boy! The first season of TNG is pretty brutal to watch. The writing, the ACTING (perhaps it's just the stilted dialogue), the directing - it is painful to watch. Luckily, there were enough shining moments to keep it on the air so it could get better.

I have been watching season 1 the past few weeks and the thing that annoys the hell out of me is how they keep talking about how great humanity is now and they always say something along the lines of "You know there was a time when humans <insert some bad character trait.>" It got really old and preachy fast.

 

[Kegg]

See, here's where I think the stereotypes are not on the part of the episode. Why does a highly technological society have to look and dress and talk like present-day America or Europe? Why assume that their clothes and their accents are automatically "primitive" and "tribal" just because they're more African than Western?

Uh, because I didn't? But hey, thanks for assumption of stupidity, it's appreciated.

This is a classically Orienalist narrative (I did point out the cliche, from the script, of the Nubian guards, no? - little more than clothing or dress that), backwards by Federation standards, tribal in governance (a great dependence on marriage, stature), and essentially about the liberal, civilized people and their interaction with such a society. It's a mix of cliches, but not exactly the sort of lofty, deep, multilayered assault on anthropological assumptions that you'd take it to be - when I say tribal in a cliche sense, that's exactly what it is. Hack writing 101, and racially insensitive hackery at that.

Honestly, I don't see why one would want to defend this Western-style (and laughably outmoded) form of denigration of a foreign culture, particularly since - as you observed, not I - the writer is guilty of doing the same elsewhere.

Also, it's pretty crappy. One can't really argue for the intelligence of a script this godawful.

And no, I'm not considering it racist because of my preconceptions, if anyone's curious. I didn't consider it much of anything when I first saw it, partly because I was young and, of course, live in a country with a very small non-white population. It was first pointed out to me on the internet, because before using the internet I was pretty ignorant of such things.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

This is a classically Orienalist narrative (I did point out the cliche, from the script, of the Nubian guards, no? - little more than clothing or dress that), backwards by Federation standards, tribal in governance (a great dependence on marriage, stature), and essentially about the liberal, civilized people and their interaction with such a society. It's a mix of cliches, but not exactly the sort of lofty, deep, multilayered assault on anthropological assumptions that you'd take it to be - when I say tribal in a cliche sense, that's exactly what it is. Hack writing 101, and racially insensitive hackery at that.

Nothing racially insensitive about it.

There can't be black tribes? (And there are still African tribes on Earth, today....as well as Native American tribes, South American, Asian, etc...)

I'm sure there are Trek episodes with white actors portraying tribal cultures....

Honestly, I don't see why one would want to defend this Western-style (and laughably outmoded) form of denigration of a foreign culture, particularly since - as you observed, not I - the writer is guilty of doing the same elsewhere.

Also, it's pretty crappy. One can't really argue for the intelligence of a script this godawful.

And no, I'm not considering it racist because of my preconceptions, if anyone's curious. I didn't consider it much of anything when I first saw it, partly because I was young and, of course, live in a country with a very small non-white population. It was first pointed out to me on the internet, because before using the internet I was pretty ignorant of such things.

So, you live in an area where there is a small non-white population, and you get majority of your information from the internet?

That's synonymous(sp?) with me--being interested in Asian culture--getting majority of my info from online sources, not interacting offline,claiming I know everything there is about Asians, claiming I'm an expert on foreign and Asian-American culture, then going to tell Asians(online) what they should view as racist and non-racist....

You might want to interact with some of those non-white individuals...

 

[euphorik]

I can't see what's so bad about it. I love the first season, and wish the rest of TNG had followed its curve.

totally agree. totally, totally agree. i don't get the hatred for season one. i thought it was great on first run, and still find that most of it holds up (for me).

totally agree, too, with the original post that the score for this one is outstanding. i'm thinking here of the opening piece, played under picard's log entry, i especially like that. it has a TOS-style brightness, and - gasp - an actual melody. i've posted here before about how much i don't like the chattaway-era musical wallpaper of the later seasons. the steiner score for this episode is the antithesis of that stuff.

i totally can understand the complaints people have with this episode - there ARE some pretty racist elements to the episode, particularly the ligonian wardrobe, and jessie lawrence ferguson's horrible bug-eyed-sabu performance as lutan. the sheer awfulness of "YOU WILL HAVE NO VACCINE - AND NO LIEUTENANT YAR!!!" is matched only by "A CLOAK OF HONOR PROTECTS ONE, CAPTAIN - LIKE A MAGIC CLOAK." yikes.

put there's a decent episode underneath, trying to get out. i think if they'd cast another actor as lutan and maybe - uh - gone back to the drawing board on the wardrobes, the episode wouldn't be so hated. the basic storyline isn't too bad, and was, i think, designed to illustrate how picard's observance of the prime directive would be very different from kirk's.

speaking of which, if you weren't around to catch these on first-run - especially in the fall of 1987, it's so easy to forget how long a shadow the original series cast at that time. the very idea of a star trek without kirk, spock, and mccoy seemed heretical to many, probably most, fans and casual viewers. i'm a little bit easier on those early first season episodes because those writers and actors were creating a whole new world, a whole new era within the trek universe & there wasn't a road map for what they were doing. there were bound to be some wrong turns. but even the bad ones were rewatchable for me in the same sense the 3rd season TOS is/was.

the only first season shows i really don't like at all are the boring, talking ones right in the middle of the season - "angel one," "too short a season," when the bough breaks," and "home soil." the rest of the season i still really enjoy.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It does seem to be a throwback to the TOS mindset where almost every other week the Enterprise was interacting with a tribal style culture. Some were primitive and isolated, but others came across as being a planetwide cultures where a nomadic leader spoke for the entire world.

 

[Green Shirt]

See, here's where I think the stereotypes are not on the part of the episode. Why does a highly technological society have to look and dress and talk like present-day America or Europe? Why assume that their clothes and their accents are automatically "primitive" and "tribal" just because they're more African than Western?

Uh, because I didn't? But hey, thanks for assumption of stupidity, it's appreciated.

Worry not, you are not the first to be assumed to be stupid. Many of us have incurred the wrath of "legends in their own minds".

 

[Kegg]

There can't be black tribes? (And there are still African tribes on Earth, today....as well as Native American tribes, South American, Asian, etc...)

It's how they're portrayed. I'm on better ground in discussing, say, "Up the Long Ladder", which is drenched in racial assumptions about Ireland. It's less the tribe and more that this specific tribal depiction is rooted in a certain paternalistic view of other cultures. Is this a problem in other Trek episodes? Yeah, I just name-dropped one. "Code of Honor" is something of a dual offender for its rather unsubtle portrayal, however.

So, you live in an area where there is a small non-white population, and you get majority of your information from the internet?

That's synonymous(sp?) with me--being interested in Asian culture--getting majority of my info from online sources, not interacting offline,claiming I know everything there is about Asians, claiming I'm an expert on foreign and Asian-American culture, then going to tell Asians(online) what they should view as racist and non-racist....

Er, I'm not going that far. Your'e entitled to consider anything racist or otherwise, that's not my business and is naturally your right. I also don't claim to be anything close to an expert about black culture of any variety (or even someone who is vaguely familiar with it - I am not).

Am I familiar with the sort of narratives "The Code of Honor" espouses? Yes, I am. And the 'from the internet' position is sort of important as that's how I discovered the episode was so widely reviled. In other words, it's not because I was working from a framework of American/European assumptions about what is racist - it's not an issue I ever devoted much time to. I was fine with "Song of the South" too as a kid, though I do now better appreciate why it's fairly controversial in America.

You might want to interact with some of those non-white individuals...

I did, actually. There just aren't very many of them, that's what I meant. Ireland is somewhat less diverse than America, though that has been changing in the past couple of years.

 

[A beaker full of death]

But as the series progressed, the decision was made (probably by Rick Berman) to take a more modern approach to the scoring, and Steiner didn't return, nor were any other TOS composers used on TNG.

Yup, it was Berman. He instructed the music should be "sonic wallpaper." His term. Goddamned philistine.

^Indeed. Gerrold, Fontana, and Justman essentially co-created TNG along with Roddenberry, despite not getting credit. It's a shame they were driven away.

This is why the first season seems like real Star Trek. The second season does too, for a different reason (the recycled Phase II scripts).
After that, it just wasn't Star Trek anymore. For all its flaws, the first season showed a ship of fully formed adults and a big, unknown universe with exotic, truly alien cultures.

 

[Nardpuncher]

One thing I find great about this BBS is no matter how shitty a Trek episode or movie is...there will always be about 3 or 4 who really like it. Wow.

 

[A beaker full of death]

^ and there will always be those who can only see the world through their own agenda.

 

[Nardpuncher]

^ and there will always be those who can only see the world through their own agenda.

I don't understand.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

There can't be black tribes? (And there are still African tribes on Earth, today....as well as Native American tribes, South American, Asian, etc...)

It's how they're portrayed. I'm on better ground in discussing, say, "Up the Long Ladder", which is drenched in racial assumptions about Ireland. It's less the tribe and more that this specific tribal depiction is rooted in a certain paternalistic view of other cultures. Is this a problem in other Trek episodes? Yeah, I just name-dropped one. "Code of Honor" is something of a dual offender for its rather unsubtle portrayal, however.

So, you live in an area where there is a small non-white population, and you get majority of your information from the internet?

That's synonymous(sp?) with me--being interested in Asian culture--getting majority of my info from online sources, not interacting offline,claiming I know everything there is about Asians, claiming I'm an expert on foreign and Asian-American culture, then going to tell Asians(online) what they should view as racist and non-racist....

Er, I'm not going that far. Your'e entitled to consider anything racist or otherwise, that's not my business and is naturally your right. I also don't claim to be anything close to an expert about black culture of any variety (or even someone who is vaguely familiar with it - I am not).

Am I familiar with the sort of narratives "The Code of Honor" espouses? Yes, I am. And the 'from the internet' position is sort of important as that's how I discovered the episode was so widely reviled. In other words, it's not because I was working from a framework of American/European assumptions about what is racist - it's not an issue I ever devoted much time to. I was fine with "Song of the South" too as a kid, though I do now better appreciate why it's fairly controversial in America.

You might want to interact with some of those non-white individuals...

I did, actually. There just aren't very many of them, that's what I meant. Ireland is somewhat less diverse than America, though that has been changing in the past couple of years.

'Song of the South' is a different matter.

You wouldn't show that today without people like me speaking out against it....

'Code of Honor,' which I would agree is cheesy in it's execution being from the 80s and a 1st season episode, is a bit different.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

^ and there will always be those who can only see the world through their own agenda.

I don't understand.

I do...

@Kegg:

I'm curious.

Have you actually seen a film or movie with a pre-dominantly black cast outside 'Code of Honor'? Although, technically 'Code of Honor'?(I'm gathering you haven't).

Let me throw out some titles for you; many of these were directed by African-American directors; some of these are favorite films of mine, I would be interested in your opinions--non-tainted by online searches, of course:

*Brown Sugar
*Eve's Bayou
*Love and Basketball
*Do the Right Thing
*Malcolm X
*The Wood
*Glory
*Posse
*Dead Presidents
*The Five Heartbeats

 

[Kegg]

Have you actually seen a film or movie with a pre-dominantly black cast outside 'Code of Honor'? Although, technically 'Code of Honor'?(I'm gathering you haven't).

Yes, actually, I have.

Granted, not that many. I think half a dozen of them starred Denzel Washington; (The Debaters from a few years back, I liked that). Hotel Rwanda? I sort of love hating on The Last King of Scotland, though given that stars a white man I'll honourally disqualify it. My memory is a bit like the attic in an old house, I could probably compile a list with effort but those are the first two things that came to mind. Yeah, they're recent movies, they're conventional, they're crowd pleasers, so I won't make any grandoliquent and inaccurate claims about some deep interest in the subject.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Have you actually seen a film or movie with a pre-dominantly black cast outside 'Code of Honor'? Although, technically 'Code of Honor'?(I'm gathering you haven't).

Yes, actually, I have.

Granted, not that many. I think half a dozen of them starred Denzel Washington; (The Debaters from a few years back, I liked that).

Cool....

That's one I want to see myself....

 

[Cheapjack]

Perhaps one of the reasons people here see it as racist, is that now similar cultures to the Legarans are now integrated more into western culture??

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Perhaps one of the reasons people here see it as racist, is that now similar cultures to the Legarans are now integrated more into western culture??

I don't understand; could you elaborate?

 

[Cheapjack]

I think I've said it as clear as I can.

 

[GalaxyX]

Here's my take on the episode.

I believe that Western Culture has been taught to think in terms of how we act vs how other cultures act. We have already been given a template of how african culture is supposed to be.

Code of Honor seems to be an episode based almost 100% on what most people "think" african culture is like, and since the episode was showing them in a negative fashion, we automatically "assume" that the episode is an attempt to mock african culture, and therefore we see it as "racist".