Should Americans be required to buy health insurance?

[Trippy]

According to the Bible silly

"Meek" doesn't mean "poor" in either Webster's OR the Beatitudes of Jesus Christ.

Exactly.

The biblical--read: Greek--definition of "meek" is simply "power under control".

In other words, the calm and rational shall inherit the earth.

I'm not going to argue what translation of Matthew to use. Arguably, it was written first in Hebrew then translated to Greek.

Jesus, in the new testement, also told his followers to sell all their goods as it was easier for a camel to go through a needle than it was a rich man to go to heaven.

Paraphrasing here, but you get my point. In regards to health care, it should be for all, the rich and poor. Those who argue against that using quotes from the bible and religious 'values' are ironical and hypocritical.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Forgive me if I don't trust them while they steal from me and give to someone who should be able to provide for themselves.

Taxes are not stealing. Trying to portray them as such is extremely dishonest. Again, you trying to frame this argument in a dishonest way won't change the facts.

Umm, carbon tax, health care tax, on top of sales tax, gas tax, income tax, and coming soon from a socialist administration near you....VAT tax.

Excessive taxation is indeed STEALING. That's a fact.

Oh, I forgot...coming soon...soda tax!

Who are you to decide what constitutes "excessive"?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

these Democrat fuckers are shoving it down our throats in the most disgustingly dastardly ways

Those fiendish mustache-twirling Democrats are tying us up to railroad tracks and forcing us to have affordable healthcare! I hear their next diabolical plan is to either build a giant robotic spider that will menace America's heartland or that they'll allow equal rights for gay couples! Outrageous!



You sir, are a delight.

 

[Arrqh]

Excessive taxation is indeed STEALING. That's a fact.

No, it is not a fact... it's just a platitude that you made up with no basis in either objective fact or in terms of the semantic definition of words. No one would ever describe taxation in that manner unless they have a political bone to pick, like you seem to and I cannot find any definition of the world "stealing" that says what you do.

One of the big deals when the colonies broke away from England was "no taxation without representation." Well... we've got representation. Just because you don't like it doesn't all of a sudden make that representation invalid. In another thread, you said you have no problem with people voting for whomever they want to regardless of your personal opinions. Does this all of a sudden not apply when health care is concerned?

 

[CaptainStoner]

Those who inherit the Earth will most likely be those who recognize the Earth, and the One.

Back to healthcare, its quite amazing how the wealthiest deny the clearly symbiotic relationship they have with the least wealthy. And strange to see the layers of guilt the wealthy seem to have, combined with dragon-like avarice, and the righteous anger of the poor, who periodically have to put a spear point to the dragon's throat just to survive. The whole cycle deserves to be called into question.
Maybe we really should just do away with economy almost entirely. Let people learn the natural ways again, but not to the abandonment of science.
The big assumption is that without economy, and without governments, we'd all kill each other like savages. These are the lies that put the shackles on rich and poor alike.

 

[Chaos Descending]

The big assumption is that without economy, and without governments, we'd all kill each other like savages. These are the lies that put the shackles on rich and poor alike.

Why do you call it an assumption when it's proven every so often when the lights go out for too long or there's too big of a flood?

 

[CaptainStoner]

The big assumption is that without economy, and without governments, we'd all kill each other like savages. These are the lies that put the shackles on rich and poor alike.

Why do you call it an assumption when it's proven every so often when the lights go out for too long or there's too big of a flood?

It's an assumption that human nature is by default reptilian, and though we do inherit the reptilian mind, our basic nature is peaceful. But what you are describing is a paradigm shift, which shocks some people into reptilian behavior.
A gradual, peaceful process is the only lasting way to root human progress IMO.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

The big assumption is that without economy, and without governments, we'd all kill each other like savages. These are the lies that put the shackles on rich and poor alike.

Why do you call it an assumption when it's proven every so often when the lights go out for too long or there's too big of a flood?

It's an assumption that human nature is by default reptilian, and though we do inherit the reptilian mind, our basic nature is peaceful. But what you are describing is a paradigm shift, which shocks some people into reptilian behavior.
A gradual, peaceful process is the only lasting way to root human progress IMO.

I respectfully disagree with you that man is basically peaceful. Our collective history makes the case that we are not. Unfortunately.

 

[MANT!]

/\ hence you assumption that "What's Mine is MINE!!" even if it was gotten through subterfuge, deceit and manipulation of those government laws to put more ill gotten gains into those with the least need..

 

[omegaone]

How is the democrats shoving it down yer throats when they campaigned for healthcare reform during the elections? Shouldnt voters of democrats expect health care reform? or is there no concept of a mandate in USA politics?

 

[Gertch]

Oh, so you admit that equating health care reform to religion is something you made up? That's good, we're making progress!

No, simply saying you didn't get the metaphor for one reason or another. But getting caught in the weeds is a distraction from the real topic.

Ooooh, that's a surprise. Let's also remember that America is vastly different than any other country.

Apparently you think that America is more inept then other countries, yeah. It's a shame you have such a low opinion of the United States!

Yeah, waving the flag of the USA (

) in my original post would lead you to that conclusion? Really?

I sure hope abortion wont be covered with my tax dollars. Killing children doesn't sound very health care like.

 

[Marc]

How is the democrats shoving it down yer throats when they campaigned for healthcare reform during the elections? Shouldnt voters of democrats expect health care reform? or is there no concept of a mandate in USA politics?

it seems that mandates only apply in the U.S if it's a Republican president who wins by a very small margin.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Why do you call it an assumption when it's proven every so often when the lights go out for too long or there's too big of a flood?

It's an assumption that human nature is by default reptilian, and though we do inherit the reptilian mind, our basic nature is peaceful. But what you are describing is a paradigm shift, which shocks some people into reptilian behavior.
A gradual, peaceful process is the only lasting way to root human progress IMO.

I respectfully disagree with you that man is basically peaceful. Our collective history makes the case that we are not. Unfortunately.

I don't think our collective history makes the case that "man" is not peaceful, but that in Christian terms, humanity has been corrupted by deceptions throughout that history, and these deceptions are at the root of suffering, poverty, and war.
Our basic nature, when not put under extended pressure of scarcity, is noble and peaceful by a large majority.
Indeed the healthcare debate is not so much about whether people should recieve it, but the fear of scarcity.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

"Meek" doesn't mean "poor" in either Webster's OR the Beatitudes of Jesus Christ.

Exactly.

The biblical--read: Greek--definition of "meek" is simply "power under control".

In other words, the calm and rational shall inherit the earth.

I'm not going to argue what translation of Matthew to use. Arguably, it was written first in Hebrew then translated to Greek.

Would it have been written in Hebrew or Aramaic?

BTW, I do agree generally about Jesus' views on the poor, he seemed to call his followers to live a fairly Franciscan lifestyle.

I also tend to think this biblical language topic has greater potential for something new to be said than the health care one

 

[Arrqh]

No, simply saying you didn't get the metaphor for one reason or another. But getting caught in the weeds is a distraction from the real topic.

That you mistakenly believe that health care reform is the same as religion, metaphorically or not, shows that some of your core assumptions on the issues are wrong. They are relavent in the sense that you brought it up and if you find the implications of your own arguments uncomfortable... well that's your fault, not mine.

Yeah, waving the flag of the USA (

) in my original post would lead you to that conclusion? Really?

Real patriotism is expressed in ideals, not little smilies. And you apparently have belief that while other countries are perfectly capable of implementing UHC in ways that are cheaper then the US's current system and serve the population better then the US's current system that the US is not able to do it. Poppycock I say to you; the US is just as good as all the other western countries and is perfectly capable of keeping up to speed when it comes to healthcare. And I think it's a shame that you think so little of the abilities of the country which you claim to support to say that it is incapable of matching the rest of the world.

I sure hope abortion wont be covered with my tax dollars. Killing children doesn't sound very health care like.

When you're losing a debate do you frequently inject unrelated topics? Or is this a special case?

 

[Gertch]

Indeed the healthcare debate is not so much about whether people should recieve it, but the fear of scarcity.

It's not fear. Rationing is a real problem with this type of health care overhaul.

Even that is a secondary concern. The primary concern being the overwhelming power handed to the government to intrude in every aspect of our lives.

A much simpler fix for any perceived health care issues would be tort reform, buying insurance across state lines and covering pre-existing conditions. I'd really like to see everyone have a $4000 deductible. Prices for most everyday complaints would necessarily plummet making them affordable for everyone.

But then health care isn't what this bill is all about anyway.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Indeed the healthcare debate is not so much about whether people should recieve it, but the fear of scarcity.

It's not fear. Rationing is a real problem with this type of health care overhaul.

Even that is a secondary concern. The primary concern being the overwhelming power handed to the government to intrude in every aspect of our lives.

A much simpler fix for any perceived health care issues would be tort reform, buying insurance across state lines and covering pre-existing conditions. I'd really like to see everyone have a $4000 deductible. Prices for most everyday complaints would necessarily plummet making them affordable for everyone.

But then health care isn't what this bill is all about anyway.

Ding, ding ding!!! We have a winner! You are correct, sir!

 

[Gertch]

Real patriotism is expressed in ideals, not little smilies. And you apparently have belief that while other countries are perfectly capable of implementing UHC in ways that are cheaper then the US's current system and serve the population better then the US's current system that the US is not able to do it. Poppycock I say to you; the US is just as good as all the other western countries and is perfectly capable of keeping up to speed when it comes to healthcare. And I think it's a shame that you think so little of the abilities of the country which you claim to support to say that it is incapable of matching the rest of the world.

Nice try. Your misdirection is in error as is your assumptions regarding UHC in other countries.

These tactics wont work any better here than when used in the Science forum.

I sure hope abortion wont be covered with my tax dollars. Killing children doesn't sound very health care like.

When you're losing a debate do you frequently inject unrelated topics? Or is this a special case?[/QUOTE]
You may be unaware that abortion is a contentious subject in the health care debate.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Indeed the healthcare debate is not so much about whether people should recieve it, but the fear of scarcity.

It's not fear. Rationing is a real problem with this type of health care overhaul.

Even that is a secondary concern. The primary concern being the overwhelming power handed to the government to intrude in every aspect of our lives.

A much simpler fix for any perceived health care issues would be tort reform, buying insurance across state lines and covering pre-existing conditions. I'd really like to see everyone have a $4000 deductible. Prices for most everyday complaints would necessarily plummet making them affordable for everyone.

But then health care isn't what this bill is all about anyway.

Ding, ding ding!!! We have a winner! You are correct, sir!

Do you think that Jesus would be opposed to Universal Health Care?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

It's not fear. Rationing is a real problem with this type of health care overhaul.

Even that is a secondary concern. The primary concern being the overwhelming power handed to the government to intrude in every aspect of our lives.

A much simpler fix for any perceived health care issues would be tort reform, buying insurance across state lines and covering pre-existing conditions. I'd really like to see everyone have a $4000 deductible. Prices for most everyday complaints would necessarily plummet making them affordable for everyone.

But then health care isn't what this bill is all about anyway.

Ding, ding ding!!! We have a winner! You are correct, sir!

Do you think that Jesus would be opposed to Universal Health Care?

Your question is too vague, no matter how many times you ask it. Try and be more specific.