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An Attempt To Explain...

the Dagman

Commodore
Commodore
There were many changes in STXI that contradict what Trekkers "know" as "fact". Most can be explained as being a result of the Narada's temporal incursion. But many cannot. Those that cannot precede the ship's arrival into the past.

The only explanation for that is that there was something else that had gone further into the past to make those changes, creating an alternate reality diverging at that point. And the Narada and the Jellyfish/Red Matter ship went to that reality/dimension/time period.

How?

Spock. He's the common denominator.

Spock has done numerous time jumps. But his last one in STIV just after his resurrection where he was using imprecise Klingon equipment and making his best guess, most would say it was different from his other jumps. (Just for the floating heads of smoke alone)

My theory is the point where Spock made his time jump into the past in STIV is the point in which the reality that STXI started in diverged from the Prime reality. And he became "metadimensionally" linked to it. The reality where Dr. Gillian Taylor went missing in 1986. So she never married in 1988, and never had the child she was supposed to have had in 1989. And 1990. And 1992. They never did check what her predestiny was to have been before their jump to 1986 (as they had done in their previous time travels), nor did they note any changes upon their return with the whales after all. So the cumulative reaction over time of her not marrying and having children could result in the changes we see in STXI a couple of hundred years later.

So when the super-nova combined with the red matter singularity reaction, all that energy created a portal that followed the link Spock had to this alternate reality his previous time jump had created. And being a portal, it's end dimension was set even though the time was not. It first opened way in the past and was making it's way back to the "present" at a rate of years for each second. Only becoming visible when an object goes through it from the Prime side.

So, that's my attempt to explain by connecting dots and filling in the blanks for an explanation I can buy. What say you?

ETA: Which also means that the portal is still there in the STXI alternate reality. And on that side it is going to remain, likely until the same point in time the portal was created in the Prime reality. While on the Prime side, it will likely remain open for seconds, minutes at the most, before the energy that created it dissipates. If there were any other ships or objects close enough to the Prime side of the portal to get to it before the energy dissipates, they could also show up in the reality of STXI. But nothing really can go back the other way (other than Spock Prime making another "time jump" I'd say). At best, it would pop up in the middle of a black hole a few seconds after Spock and the Narada had gone through. And good luck with that as it gets crushed and compressed down smaller than a point.

It could attract the attention of a Q I suppose. Or the wormhole prophets. "What is this anomaly? Send in the Sisko!" Maybe even the USS Titan (Riker was supposed to be working near the Romulans, wasn't he?). Hmmm... Captain Kirk meets Captain Riker... Any number of things are possible to further introduce into this new reality.
 
Those are some interesting theories but I think you're reading too much into it. The alternate reality seperates from the TOS reality at the moment of Nero's arrival in the past or at some point later. If there was an alternate reality before that moment, we would have not two, but three seperate timelines.
 
There were many changes in STXI that contradict what Trekkers "know" as "fact". Most can be explained as being a result of the Narada's temporal incursion. But many cannot. Those that cannot precede the ship's arrival into the past.

The only explanation for that is that there was something else that had gone further into the past to make those changes, creating an alternate reality diverging at that point. And the Narada and the Jellyfish/Red Matter ship went to that reality/dimension/time period.

How?

Spock. He's the common denominator.

Spock has done numerous time jumps. But his last one in STIV just after his resurrection where he was using imprecise Klingon equipment and making his best guess, most would say it was different from his other jumps. (Just for the floating heads of smoke alone)

My theory is the point where Spock made his time jump into the past in STIV is the point in which the reality that STXI started in diverged from the Prime reality. And he became "metadimensionally" linked to it. The reality where Dr. Gillian Taylor went missing in 1986. So she never married in 1988, and never had the child she was supposed to have had in 1989. And 1990. And 1992. They never did check what her predestiny was to have been before their jump to 1986 (as they had done in their previous time travels), nor did they note any changes upon their return with the whales after all. So the cumulative reaction over time of her not marrying and having children could result in the changes we see in STXI a couple of hundred years later.

So when the super-nova combined with the red matter singularity reaction, all that energy created a portal that followed the link Spock had to this alternate reality his previous time jump had created. And being a portal, it's end dimension was set even though the time was not. It first opened way in the past and was making it's way back to the "present" at a rate of years for each second. Only becoming visible when an object goes through it from the Prime side.

So, that's my attempt to explain by connecting dots and filling in the blanks for an explanation I can buy. What say you?

ETA: Which also means that the portal is still there in the STXI alternate reality. And on that side it is going to remain, likely until the same point in time the portal was created in the Prime reality. While on the Prime side, it will likely remain open for seconds, minutes at the most, before the energy that created it dissipates. If there were any other ships or objects close enough to the Prime side of the portal to get to it before the energy dissipates, they could also show up in the reality of STXI. But nothing really can go back the other way (other than Spock Prime making another "time jump" I'd say). At best, it would pop up in the middle of a black hole a few seconds after Spock and the Narada had gone through. And good luck with that as it gets crushed and compressed down smaller than a point.

It could attract the attention of a Q I suppose. Or the wormhole prophets. "What is this anomaly? Send in the Sisko!" Maybe even the USS Titan (Riker was supposed to be working near the Romulans, wasn't he?). Hmmm... Captain Kirk meets Captain Riker... Any number of things are possible to further introduce into this new reality.
I actually like this hypothesis a lot better than some of the explanations of How Time Travel Really Works in Star Trek which have been tendered previously in efforts to to prove that the makers of this movie got it all wrong. This is quite elegant, really, requiring no major alterations to either anything in the current movie nor to anything previously seen in any on-screen Trek to make it all fit; very little even has to be bent very far.

Nice! :techman:
 
I actually like this hypothesis a lot better than some of the explanations of How Time Travel Really Works in Star Trek which have been tendered previously in efforts to to prove that the makers of this movie got it all wrong. This is quite elegant, really, requiring no major alterations to either anything in the current movie nor to anything previously seen in any on-screen Trek to make it all fit; very little even has to be bent very far.

Nice! :techman:

Thank you! [bows]

Just attempting to spread peace among Trek fandom.
 
Fascinating. On a side note I've always wondered how the time stream would have been effected by Gillian's absence. We already know from watching Doctor Who how important one woman can be in the universe...and in defense of the Enterprise crew not checking into Gillian's records, they didn't really have the time to do that. I suppose that Jim could have checked the computers after meeting her the first time at the Institute in order to assure that nothing drastic would alter due to her absence. I doubt she would be an Edith Keeler type of person...but then we never know. I really do like this theory btw.
 
The reality where Dr. Gillian Taylor went missing in 1986. So she never married in 1988, and never had the child she was supposed to have had in 1989. And 1990. And 1992.

I missed all this stuff in the movie. :confused:

Obvious supposition on my part.

Was it really necessary that I explain that? This is a Star Trek forum. I give everyone credit for being smarter than that. My mistake.

Like she would not have gotten married and had kids had she never met Kirk and Spock... riiiiiiiiight.;)
 
Umm, Yeah and I suppose I could link it all to some other random event in another trek movie. But I wont. Cause I dont like to over think stuff like that. Boy it is nice that Abrahams took the time to retcon his story with ST4 or whatever...
 
The First Contact divergence is a far more elegant solution, IMO, and is supported across several Trek iterations.
 
What First Contact divergence? The one that they showed in ENT's "In A Mirror Darkly?" that has been debated in this forum regarding if it was the true divergence in the Mirror Universe, I happen to disagree that it is. the Dagman's explanation deals with the 2009 movie.
 
It's simple. The Narada's incursion is the "first" point of departure for the different realities (Prime and New) but that incursion caused someone to be born who invents a new and more effective means of time travel and travels back in time to make all the other changes that appear to pre-date the Narada's incursion.

Note that the Narada was travelling between realities while my hypothetical time traveller is travelling within just the new reality, but along the timeline. No reason to believe you can't do both.

What First Contact divergence? The one that they showed in ENT's "In A Mirror Darkly?" that has been debated in this forum regarding if it was the true divergence in the Mirror Universe, I happen to disagree that it is.
I concur. The MU was created in a reality in which Edith Keeler survived and allowed the Nazis to win WWII. ENT's MU didn't seem to stem directly from this event but from earlier divergences and so must be a different MU. With infinite realities to deal with, of course there has to be more than one MU - just as many MUs as alternate "regular" realities.
 
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