James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

[Robert Maxwell]

I liked the movie, more than I expected to even. The story was engaging enough, though I have a few major issues in the area of character motivation. The one thing that I absolutely loathed about the movie was the main villain. I'm not sure how it all went so wrong, whether the acting or the writing was more to blame, but the character as presented was such a snarling, over-the-top cartoon stereotype that he ruined nearly every scene that featured him. Unfortunately, his scenes accounted for a large chunk of the running time.

He bothered me a lot too. I think that the actor did a fine job, I feel like it was the script's fault. Cripes, not even a cliched "The Na'vi killed my son!" subplot? I'm being tongue in cheek here, but something would've been nice. Why was he such an asshole?

Considering he received his scars his very first day on the planet, and he hadn't left since, his motivation was pretty obvious to me: he wanted to dominate this two-bit moon, whatever it took. Pandora hurt him, and he was apparently content to spend the rest of his life hurting it back. He'd been waiting for a long time (decades?) to get his chance to really cut loose, and he finally got it. That Sully sided with the Na'vi and the forest just made matters worse. The planet was his enemy. I'll admit the dude's motivation is completely insane, but then you'd probably have to be to have his job.

I had similiar issues with Michelle Rodriguez's character, why did she defect? I know her and Sully were buddies, but did they even have more than one scene together? A few motivating story beats for more of the supporting characters would've helped the movie a lot in my opinion.

It wasn't just her and Sully, I got the impression she was friendly with the scientist camp. She ferried them around at least a few times, and probably spent a lot of time with them. I think it would have been more believable had a few more pilots refused to attack innocent people, though.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Variety reports $73M for the snow-filled weekend.

 

[Neroon]

I thought the film was a masterpiece. All the complaints about bad story and dialogue are bitter bunk from people who are unable to lose themselves in the majesty of cinema.

I wanna write a review, but I have so much to say and I'm so lazy...

One word: HYPOCRITE

Its true for so many of you in this thread.

So complaining about the plot is now suddenly a lame excuse for some?!
I got two more words for you: TERMINATOR SALVATION

Its plot was no more full of nitpicks or cliches but you and many decided it was fair game. Its why I can't take you seriously on your opinions.

The Majesty of Cinema my ass. It was pretty but the mantra around here so often is substance that now when a picture is "just pretty" its suddenly ok to overlook its other jarring flaws.

CAMERON COCK SUCKERS.

Michael Bay has delivered tighter stories with 'kewl effects'.

Infraction for flaming, with the "Cameron cocksuckers" comment. Any further discussion goes to PM, please

 

[Hyperspace05]

Variety reports $73M for the snow-filled weekend.

Add to that an estimated $159 million from international (non-domestic) markets, for a ~$230 million worldwide debut weekend.

 

[T'Baio]

"Twentieth Century Fox and James Cameron's "Avatar" grossed $232.2 million in its worldwide debut to post the best global launch ever for a non-sequel, including a strong domestic bow of $73 million that had to overcome the worst blizzard in decades on the East Coast."

"The critically acclaimed "Avatar" posted glowing exits, earning an A or A+ CinemaScore across all demos."

Congratulations to James Cameron and a team of filmmakers and artisans who more than deserve the acclaim.

 

[Tom Servo]

"Twentieth Century Fox and James Cameron's "Avatar" grossed $232.2 million in its worldwide debut to post the best global launch ever for a non-sequel, including a strong domestic bow of $73 million that had to overcome the worst blizzard in decades on the East Coast."

"The critically acclaimed "Avatar" posted glowing exits, earning an A or A+ CinemaScore across all demos."

Congratulations to James Cameron and a team of filmmakers and artisans who more than deserve the acclaim.

Excellent job gentlemen!

 

[DarthPipes]

I liked the movie, more than I expected to even. The story was engaging enough, though I have a few major issues in the area of character motivation. The one thing that I absolutely loathed about the movie was the main villain. I'm not sure how it all went so wrong, whether the acting or the writing was more to blame, but the character as presented was such a snarling, over-the-top cartoon stereotype that he ruined nearly every scene that featured him. Unfortunately, his scenes accounted for a large chunk of the running time.

He bothered me a lot too. I think that the actor did a fine job, I feel like it was the script's fault. Cripes, not even a cliched "The Na'vi killed my son!" subplot? I'm being tongue in cheek here, but something would've been nice. Why was he such an asshole?

Considering he received his scars his very first day on the planet, and he hadn't left since, his motivation was pretty obvious to me: he wanted to dominate this two-bit moon, whatever it took. Pandora hurt him, and he was apparently content to spend the rest of his life hurting it back. He'd been waiting for a long time (decades?) to get his chance to really cut loose, and he finally got it. That Sully sided with the Na'vi and the forest just made matters worse. The planet was his enemy. I'll admit the dude's motivation is completely insane, but then you'd probably have to be to have his job.

I had similiar issues with Michelle Rodriguez's character, why did she defect? I know her and Sully were buddies, but did they even have more than one scene together? A few motivating story beats for more of the supporting characters would've helped the movie a lot in my opinion.

It wasn't just her and Sully, I got the impression she was friendly with the scientist camp. She ferried them around at least a few times, and probably spent a lot of time with them. I think it would have been more believable had a few more pilots refused to attack innocent people, though.

Yeah, I'll go with this too.

The Colonel was a stereotypical character, there's no doubt. But I give Lang a lot of credit for making that stereotype work. He played it to a hilt and he was just damn entertaining with the way he talked. He rised above the limited material he was given.

The Na'vi weren't so lucky. With the exception of Neytiri, they were all stockpile characters. None of them really had much depth. Any sequel would need to explore that a lot better.

BTW, did anyone mistake Giovanni Ribisi for Edward Norton in this film? He looks and sounds just like him. He had a Benjamin Linus vibe too. Ribisi's character showed a little depth but again, he was mostly a stockpile character.

 

[Trekker4747]

Saw it yesterday (in 2d). I felt it was fairly decent if a little predictable. The story was well told and the effects good. I'll be ordering it when it comes out

Why did you see it in 3D when the enitre selling point of the movie was the revolutionary 3D effects?

EDIT:

I know I wailed on the story a lot in my review, but I want to clarify that I really enjoyed this movie. I was lost in the damn thing from the visuals and maybe a little bit from the story surrounding the alien creatures. I dug how much was put into their culture and it was truly an alien planet. I dug the "plugging into" the creatures they were riding to fasciliate combined control. I just didn't like the other story about the Evil Co. motives via the Beige Evil Berets.

I didn't "buy" that aspect of it. What would've helped would've maybe setting part of the first act on earth and maybe showing us the troubles Earth is going through and how much the mineral was needed to do things like power cities, or help feed people or whatever. Knowing where the military was coming from would've been nice and helped balance out the motives of the two sides of things. Instead we're pretty much just told that the mineral is -for whatever reason- needed without ever given a why.

As I said up thread I plan on seeing this movie again in 2D to see how the movie is without the specticle of the 3D stuff.

Cameron can still take a fairly pedestrian story and knock it out of the damn park with his grasp of setting a scene, handling action, and doing mind-bending effects.

Bravo, James.

I just wish the core story was a little bit more original or at least a little bit less one-sided (like I said, setting up where the corporate/military guys were coming from would've helped a lot.)

 

[John Clark]

Why did you see it in 3D when the enitre selling point of the movie was the revolutionary 3D effects?

Timing mostly. The first 3d showing would have been fine for me, but getting the rest of the gang up and out in time would be difficult at best. The second and later 3d showings would interfere with other plans for the day for all of us.

I may go and check it out on my own at some point though

 

[Trekker4747]

Why did you see it in 3D when the enitre selling point of the movie was the revolutionary 3D effects?

Timing mostly. The first 3d showing would have been fine for me, but getting the rest of the gang up and out in time would be difficult at best. The second and later 3d showings would interfere with other plans for the day for all of us.

I may go and check it out on my own at some point though

Do. Just make sure you wear a catheter bag for all of the jizz you'll be unloading. The 3D in this movie is awesome.

 

[T'Baio]

I saw Avatar and I...

...jizzed...in...my pants.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I've never felt sexually gratified by a movie. Uh, well, not the kind they show in respectable theaters, anyway.

You people are weird.

 

[DarthPipes]

I didn't "buy" that aspect of it. What would've helped would've maybe setting part of the first act on earth and maybe showing us the troubles Earth is going through and how much the mineral was needed to do things like power cities, or help feed people or whatever.

Yeah, the parts about Earth being a dying planet wasn't revealed until much later in the movie and only in throwaway lines. It would have given the other side a lot more depth if they had been fighting, basically, for the survival of their world. Would have made Sully's decision even more difficult.

 

[Jax]

Good news for Cameron who wants to possibly make sequels...

Avatar worldwide gross hits $232 million with 8 more countries to still open the movie.

Not too far from covering its budget which has been reported from being $240-280 million. Avatar will probably break the $500 million worldwide target now.

 

[trevanian]

Good news for Cameron who wants to possibly make sequels...

Avatar worldwide gross hits $232 million with 8 more countries to still open the movie.

Not too far from covering its budget which has been reported from being $240-280 million. Avatar will probably break the $500 million worldwide target now.

Breakeven is going to be at 800 mil, given the budget they are ADMITTING at this point. Multiple investors minimized risk a bit, but also limited returns ... nobody will get rich off this except the 3D industry (and I'm hoping that is a short-lived thing myself.)

What is it with this Tbaio turning into some voicebox for the studio? It is like going into the abrams forum and seeing BAILEY winging his propaganda and snipes without restraint or fear of retaliation. I just read a single page of this thread and am already sick of it (serves me right for even checking this forum ... it was mismanaged when I used to post here years ago and I'm guessing nothing much has changed.)

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Star Trek opened to $79M (without the hindrance of a snow storm), but given the positive word-of-mouth Avatar (despite its mediocre story ) I expect it ought to outperform Star Trek and easily pass the $300M mark in North America. What I'm most curious about is whether or not it'll break $350M and outperform ROTK's $377M.

 

[Trekker4747]

Good news for Cameron who wants to possibly make sequels...

Avatar worldwide gross hits $232 million with 8 more countries to still open the movie.

Not too far from covering its budget which has been reported from being $240-280 million. Avatar will probably break the $500 million worldwide target now.

The budget may have been around $300m but the marketing costs are going to be double that again. The movie will still at the very least break even or turn some profit -which will make the studio happy- when world-wide figures, DVD sales and other tie-in (toys, what have you) get heaped on. But it's got a long way to go.

 

[Hyperspace05]

The budget may have been around $300m but the marketing costs are going to be double that again. The movie will still at the very least break even or turn some profit -which will make the studio happy- when world-wide figures, DVD sales and other tie-in (toys, what have you) get heaped on. But it's got a long way to go.

You are close on the budget, but off on the marketing costs. According to this story (which appears to be the most accurate so far on budget numbers, coming from FOX sources), the production budget was $320 million (but through tax credits it is reduced by $40 million), and the marketing costs worldwide is roughly $150 million.

So the real net income they need to break even is 280+150 = $430 million.

I'd say they need a gross of $700-$800 worldwide to break even. And that looks very possible.

 

[dragunzng]

I kept flashing back to that ill-fated Final Fantasy movie from a decade ago, thinking that Avatar was the film they wanted to make all this time. You've got all the classic Final Fantasy elements there: a tree of life, evil military corporation, powerful woman in tune with the Earth, plucky friends, symbolic tools, etc.

Weird, I thought the exact same thing when I left the theater today. I believe a lot of the ground work in terms of technology was laid for Avatar on that Final Fantasy project.

As far as the movie itself goes, I was quietly blown away (I saw it in 2D) mind you.

I'd been on a media blackout so all I knew was that there were blue aliens and a paraplegic marine. The story was fairly pedestrian, but it was presented very well, no surprises, just well made and well delivered. Worthington saved Terminator Salvation for me, and I think he really delivered here, Zoe Saldana was excellent, as well.

As soon as we were shown the jungle, I couldn't help thinking "this is pretty much what I'd imagine a live action John Carter of Mars would look like". I wonder what Andrew Stanton must have been thinking as he watched it, and whether Avatar will have any bearing on Pixar's plans for their John Carter movie.

Anyway, I'll be seeing this at least two more times, once with the family on Boxing Day, and sometime in early January in 3D when I'm in the States.

Am I the only one who thought the Na'vi felt more like some kind of African tribe, rather than Native American?

I thought the same thing when I was watching it, though the Na'vi leader sounded more Native American.

I find it odd that only Michelle Rodriguez (who I found hot for the first time ever in this movie)

Agreed, I usually think she's kind of well... crass, but she was actually pretty hot in Avatar.

I mean, for fuck's sake, the logos even use the same font.

You know ... that's something that has really hit an odd nerve with me: the fact that Avatar, this cutting-edge visual film, is using what is, essentially, the Papyrus font. It's a nitpick, for sure, but couldn't they have found a font a bit more, I dunno, cutting-edge?

Yep, my brother and I are artists and we just can't get over the fact. It's kind of irritating really.

 

[Trekker4747]

Agreed, I usually think [Michelle Rodriquez] kind of well... crass, but she was actually pretty hot in Avatar.

Ditto, you and I should start a club. Her crassness and demeanor she's played in damn-near everything she's ever been in turned me off on her. But in this movie she seemed to be "softer" than she usually is and she wore a wife-beater well.