Warp drive and first contact (not the movie)

[C.E. Evans]

Like I said, warp drive isn't always a sign of cultural maturity. It just marks a point wherein contact is now inevitable so the Feds figure they may as well make it as peaceful as possible.

Exactly, and that's all there really is to it, IMO.

Anything else would be guidelines for those worlds who want actual admission into the Federation. I'm sure there are a lot of starfaring societies out there who aren't even close to meeting the Federation's criteria for membership (nor want to join anyway) but are recognized as sovereign nations in their own right.

 

[The Castellan]

I'll admit I was thinking solely of dolphins with that statement, while their fore fins contain all the bones of a Human hand, dolphins lack the means to manipulate their environment.

Who said one needs to physically manipulate equipment?
I bet you there's aliens out there that control their vessels with mere power of thought.

And then, of course, you got the aforementioned Daleks. They are, essentially, a brain blob that can't really move about on it's own, hence the machines they are placed in. The machines have a manipulator arm with either a sucker or a pincer at the end. So I could picture dolphins with some type of prothetic device.

 

[Yug]

I'll admit I was thinking solely of dolphins with that statement, while their fore fins contain all the bones of a Human hand, dolphins lack the means to manipulate their environment.

Who said one needs to physically manipulate equipment?
I bet you there's aliens out there that control their vessels with mere power of thought.

And then, of course, you got the aforementioned Daleks. They are, essentially, a brain blob that can't really move about on it's own, hence the machines they are placed in. The machines have a manipulator arm with either a sucker or a pincer at the end. So I could picture dolphins with some type of prothetic device.

But the Daleks are mutations of a radioactivie war between the Kaleds and the Thal on their homeworld Skaro, they were built by a pre-existing industrial society... they are the last of a destroyed race, mutated by their own war. They exist out of desperation and are lost without some form of leadership, or outside help to repopulate from any even minor decimation. Total irony from a race that considers themselves as perfect lifeforms, and yet are totally helpless. Basically they can't advance their own existence without an outside influence to rebuild them, either willingly or at the threat of extermination at the end of a Dalek disruptor ray.

Who would build machine bodies for dolphins? And if dolphins could manipulate their surroundings via mind control, why would they need machine bodies?

 

[Timo]

A new species readiness to be contacted should be a matter of cultural maturity and philosophical mindset.

But it cannot be. What could be done if a culturally immature species with perverse philosophies comes in a warship and says hello to the UFP? "Sorry, we don't talk to the likes of you"?

Contact is not something the UFP can postpone beyond the "natural" time of discovery of warp drive or subspace communications, or beyond the "unnatural" time of some non-UFP entity coming and contacting the primitives. It is only something the UFP can hasten.

Who would build machine bodies for dolphins?

Some non-UFP entity coming and contacting the primitives before the "natural" time?

Many such entities might find uses for an aquatic labor force. Some might do a favor for the dolphins for altruistic or religious reasons. Some might simply be mischievous, or have a sinister longterm plan of manipulating the dolphins via their appendages at a crucial junction of history.

This wouldn't have much bearing on the Prime Directive, though. Once the cat is out of the bag regarding "interstellar awareness", it doesn't much matter who contacted whom and did what. The UFP thereafter is free to contact, but apparently has a policy of not interfering beyond the exchange of niceties and the conditional offering of membership.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Yug]

Who would build machine bodies for dolphins?

Some non-UFP entity coming and contacting the primitives before the "natural" time?

Many such entities might find uses for an aquatic labor force. Some might do a favor for the dolphins for altruistic or religious reasons. Some might simply be mischievous, or have a sinister longterm plan of manipulating the dolphins via their appendages at a crucial junction of history.

This wouldn't have much bearing on the Prime Directive, though. Once the cat is out of the bag regarding "interstellar awareness", it doesn't much matter who contacted whom and did what. The UFP thereafter is free to contact, but apparently has a policy of not interfering beyond the exchange of niceties and the conditional offering of membership.

Timo Saloniemi

But the issue here is, what if an aquatic species achieves sentience on their own. What you suggest constitutes as slavery in most cases. If an aquatic species, like dolphins, become sentient (and perhaps they already have) how will they expand upon their station in the universe without help? My theory is evolution will find a way... cat's are being born with a 6th toe, what might be called a thumb (check the internet)... I can think that dolphins will someday get evolved appendeges. But hey, dolphins are mammals, and may just grow beyond their habitat and learn to live on land, they already need to come up for air to breath... what of a true aquatic species, like sharks, or even jellyfish?

 

[The Castellan]

I'll admit I was thinking solely of dolphins with that statement, while their fore fins contain all the bones of a Human hand, dolphins lack the means to manipulate their environment.

Who said one needs to physically manipulate equipment?
I bet you there's aliens out there that control their vessels with mere power of thought.

And then, of course, you got the aforementioned Daleks. They are, essentially, a brain blob that can't really move about on it's own, hence the machines they are placed in. The machines have a manipulator arm with either a sucker or a pincer at the end. So I could picture dolphins with some type of prothetic device.

But the Daleks are mutations of a radioactivie war between the Kaleds and the Thal on their homeworld Skaro, they were built by a pre-existing industrial society... they are the last of a destroyed race, mutated by their own war. They exist out of desperation and are lost without some form of leadership, or outside help to repopulate from any even minor decimation. Total irony from a race that considers themselves as perfect lifeforms, and yet are totally helpless. Basically they can't advance their own existence without an outside influence to rebuild them, either willingly or at the threat of extermination at the end of a Dalek disruptor ray.

Who would build machine bodies for dolphins? And if dolphins could manipulate their surroundings via mind control, why would they need machine bodies?

The pre Davros stories showed they could do quite well, even without a leader, such as in Power of the Daleks. Plus the single Dalek from 2005's Dalek did pretty well till the end. The Emperor in Parting of Ways, with only a small group surviving, were able t orebuilt their forces by manipulating mankind's society on Earth via media.

For the second part...I said either Dolphins could use their minds to control machines, OR they could have machine prosthesis for maniplating things. I did not say both.
I'd make some slick devices for them, if I had the know how to do it.

 

[Yug]

Who said one needs to physically manipulate equipment?
I bet you there's aliens out there that control their vessels with mere power of thought.

And then, of course, you got the aforementioned Daleks. They are, essentially, a brain blob that can't really move about on it's own, hence the machines they are placed in. The machines have a manipulator arm with either a sucker or a pincer at the end. So I could picture dolphins with some type of prothetic device.

But the Daleks are mutations of a radioactivie war between the Kaleds and the Thal on their homeworld Skaro, they were built by a pre-existing industrial society... they are the last of a destroyed race, mutated by their own war. They exist out of desperation and are lost without some form of leadership, or outside help to repopulate from any even minor decimation. Total irony from a race that considers themselves as perfect lifeforms, and yet are totally helpless. Basically they can't advance their own existence without an outside influence to rebuild them, either willingly or at the threat of extermination at the end of a Dalek disruptor ray.

Who would build machine bodies for dolphins? And if dolphins could manipulate their surroundings via mind control, why would they need machine bodies?

The pre Davros stories showed they could do quite well, even without a leader, such as in Power of the Daleks. Plus the single Dalek from 2005's Dalek did pretty well till the end. The Emperor in Parting of Ways, with only a small group surviving, were able t orebuilt their forces by manipulating mankind's society on Earth via media.

I'm speaking of the pre Davros Dalek society, they were mutants decimated by an atomic war, the machines were built by a pre-existing society... it doesn't fit the point to say they got along on their own. They didn't start off as "brain blobs", they evolved the industrial society then became mutations living a sad existance reliant on mechanical automation.

For the second part...I said either Dolphins could use their minds to control machines, OR they could have machine prosthesis for maniplating things. I did not say both.
I'd make some slick devices for them, if I had the know how to do it.

Ok, they use their minds to control machines... who builds the machines? The dolphins? Why if they can manipulate their enviroment with their minds to build machines, why do they even need machines... see what I'm saying?