In universe reason for warp core design

[Hatchet2k4]

While we know why engineering and the warp cores are built the way they are for the tv and movies - they're glowy and look cool - I can't help but think a real future engineer would be a little aghast at the design. What amounts to a boiling cauldron of ultra high energy reactions in the middle of a large room with little in the way of shielding.. I can't help but think of mirror Trip in IAMD, his face twisted and deformed with glowing grandkids. :P one would think that the high end machinery for all that would be in a seperate room entirely and not generally worked around. Funny enough, we never even see any of the fusion reactors which arguably would be safer!


But real world concerns aside, any thoughts for an in universe reason why they might design them in this way? Easy access for repairs or to the dilythium crystals perhaps? Just trying to prompt some discussion on something I've thought about recently.

 

[Kaziarl]

That is actually a good question, one that I think is often overlooked. And while I certainly wouldn't have a great answer since I'm not an engineer, I can offer an opinion at least.

I've personally always thought the reaction happens somewhere at the base of the column that we see in the E-D engine room, and with only one way to go the resulting energy moves up through the core, past the crystals which focus the energy, and then to the nacelles and power conduits as necessary.

In this way the reaction is away from the middle of the ship, always seemed a bad idea to me, and the crystals act as a sort of converter changing the raw power into usable electricity.

Anyway, someone who is more scientifically intelligent could probably give you a better answer, but that's my idea.

 

[Mr. B]

The dilithium chamber is indeed user accessible according to the TNG tech manual... although the Ent-E engineering set would require a lift to reach it.

I don't have a plausible explanation for the use of translucent materials to give us the glowy effects, but I think we can safely assume that the advancement in materials safely explains away what we might consider a "lack of shielding."

I don't think the location of the reactor itself is a problem. Generally they are in the middle of the hull... seems like the best place for them.

 

[Hatchet2k4]

I think the Ent E design bothered me the most.. Too high as you mentioned, and the simple fact that there's deadly coolant in glass tubes that can be shattered. (By an android, albeit, but it can still be broken!)

Although putting the forcefield around it in Nemesis was a nice touch.

 

[Verteron]

I've personally always thought the reaction happens somewhere at the base of the column that we see in the E-D engine room, and with only one way to go the resulting energy moves up through the core, past the crystals which focus the energy, and then to the nacelles and power conduits as necessary.

The vast majority of evidence points to the contrary, alas. Specifically that the lights on the warp core ascend as well as descend, with the pulses moving towards the dilithium chamber in the middle of the set, with power transfer conduits (which have been named on screen) leading away from this, the 'reaction chamber'.

I've always pictured the warp core effectively as two linear accelerators, using magnetic acceleration to shoot hydrogen and antihydrogen nucleii at eachother at high speed in tightly focussed beams to increase the chances of total annihilation.

The dilithium crystals are magic - in the sense they apparently turn the various EM radiation that would be emitted from such annihilation in to useful energy that can be used to heat plasma, but ultimately, the warp core is a big particle collider...

 

[Myasishchev]

I reckoned the transparency (and the location of the M/A annihilator in the middle of an occupied room ) is for directly measuring the temperature of the plasma transmission fluid on its return to the chamber, but the transparency is made of material or can be filled with a material that's opaque to light of lower wavelengths than, oh, say, 300nm or so.

Also, easy maintenance.

 

[RapidNadion]

The dilithium chamber is indeed user accessible according to the TNG tech manual... although the Ent-E engineering set would require a lift to reach it.

You don't need to look in the tech manual to see it's user-accessible. We see Scotty poke around in there in "Relics," and we see the short-lived "Leland T. Lynch" doing a crystal changeout in "Skin of Evil," I believe.

I don't have a plausible explanation for the use of translucent materials to give us the glowy effects, but I think we can safely assume that the advancement in materials safely explains away what we might consider a "lack of shielding."

The TNG tech manual does some lovely dancing around the issue of the glowy bits. According to it, the "harmless photons" are a secondary effect of the magic that makes the magnetic constrictors work, giving the chief engineer a visual indication of injector activity.

I don't think the location of the reactor itself is a problem. Generally they are in the middle of the hull... seems like the best place for them.

Agreed. While it would probably make more sense in real life to have the core contained in its own crew-inaccessible compartment (as on modern nuclear vessels), I love that we viewers have often been treated to really up close and detailed shots of the various reactors over the course of the series.

 

[Kaziarl]

I've personally always thought the reaction happens somewhere at the base of the column that we see in the E-D engine room, and with only one way to go the resulting energy moves up through the core, past the crystals which focus the energy, and then to the nacelles and power conduits as necessary.

The vast majority of evidence points to the contrary, alas. Specifically that the lights on the warp core ascend as well as descend, with the pulses moving towards the dilithium chamber in the middle of the set, with power transfer conduits (which have been named on screen) leading away from this, the 'reaction chamber'.

I've always pictured the warp core effectively as two linear accelerators, using magnetic acceleration to shoot hydrogen and antihydrogen nucleii at eachother at high speed in tightly focussed beams to increase the chances of total annihilation.

The dilithium crystals are magic - in the sense they apparently turn the various EM radiation that would be emitted from such annihilation in to useful energy that can be used to heat plasma, but ultimately, the warp core is a big particle collider...

I don't recall every seeing the D's glowy bits move both ways. The central column as far as i can recall always moved up, and the two (sometimes 3 on some episodes) glowy bits moving out from the dilithium chamber moved away. As for the E-E, well... in the 3 movies, and the scenes we actually got to see the core... It was offline more then it was working.

 

[DonIago]

Erm...the glowy bits always converged at the center...the bottom ones moved up, the top ones moved down.

 

[Verteron]

I don't recall every seeing the D's glowy bits move both ways. The central column as far as i can recall always moved up, and the two (sometimes 3 on some episodes) glowy bits moving out from the dilithium chamber moved away. As for the E-E, well... in the 3 movies, and the scenes we actually got to see the core... It was offline more then it was working.

Watch the glowy bits moving a few seconds in to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj_Py-H2Nac

 

[Kaziarl]

I don't recall every seeing the D's glowy bits move both ways. The central column as far as i can recall always moved up, and the two (sometimes 3 on some episodes) glowy bits moving out from the dilithium chamber moved away. As for the E-E, well... in the 3 movies, and the scenes we actually got to see the core... It was offline more then it was working.

Watch the glowy bits moving a few seconds in to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj_Py-H2Nac

Ok, I stand corrected. And I thought I had a decent idea too... *sigh*

You might find this interesting. Found it after watching the video you linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7iGIeV1Nys

 

[Verteron]

Ok, I stand corrected. And I thought I had a decent idea too... *sigh*

Hey, no worries. I wasn't trying to organise a pedantry contest - it's funny how the mind works sometimes!

Your video is very interesting and similar to what I had in my head already, so that checks out.

Interestingly in the video I posted I noticed data said that the Enterprise is generating 12.75 billion gigawatts (or 12.75 exawatts). This really is a ridiculously big number!

For reference, it's several orders of magnitude more energy than all the energy from solar radiation hitting the Earth's atmosphere. The total power used by humans worldwide is somewhere in the order of 10 terawatts, which is one million times less than this number.

What are they doing with all that energy?

Incidentally, if we plug 12.75 billion gigawatts in to E = mc^2, assuming perfect annihilation of matter and antimatter, the Enterprise-D is consuming 140kg of fuel per second, 70kg of matter, and 70kg of antimatter. Not bad!

 

[Kaziarl]

That does seem like alot, especially considering they are going at impulse in that scene. Or atleast it looks like it. I guess thats what you get for leaving the lights on all the time.

 

[Myasishchev]

I don't recall every seeing the D's glowy bits move both ways. The central column as far as i can recall always moved up, and the two (sometimes 3 on some episodes) glowy bits moving out from the dilithium chamber moved away. As for the E-E, well... in the 3 movies, and the scenes we actually got to see the core... It was offline more then it was working.

Watch the glowy bits moving a few seconds in to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj_Py-H2Nac

Ok, I stand corrected. And I thought I had a decent idea too... *sigh*

You might find this interesting. Found it after watching the video you linked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7iGIeV1Nys

I stopped watching when he said that the product of a matter-antimatter reaction is plasma.

Edit: hope no one read the rest, I was off by three orders of magnitude.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

That is actually a good question, one that I think is often overlooked. And while I certainly wouldn't have a great answer since I'm not an engineer, I can offer an opinion at least.

I've personally always thought the reaction happens somewhere at the base of the column that we see in the E-D engine room, and with only one way to go the resulting energy moves up through the core, past the crystals which focus the energy, and then to the nacelles and power conduits as necessary.

In this way the reaction is away from the middle of the ship, always seemed a bad idea to me, and the crystals act as a sort of converter changing the raw power into usable electricity.

Anyway, someone who is more scientifically intelligent could probably give you a better answer, but that's my idea.

What about a double-reaction chamber? Reaction at the to AND bottom of the core with both plasma streams channeled into the dilithium chamber. This then becomes a sort of double-reactor system where the "warp core" is really more of a transmission/powertrain type device, a different take on the TMP intermix chamber which worked the same way.

This finally gives you an explanation for the engine designs on the Enterprise-E and the Defiant: the multi-tube thing can be explained by the ship actually having eight small reactors instead of two big reactors, maybe allowing for better control of the ship's power output (similar and sometimes erroneous thinking behind the six-speed transmission).

 

[Pavonis]

As I recall, the reason the Enterprise was given outboard engines in the first place was to put the dangerous matter-antimatter reactors as far away from the habitable sections of the ship as possible. The nacelles themselves were supposed to be the power generators, too, not just the primary power consumers. That idea makes more sense to me than having the reactors smack dab in the middle of the ship.

 

[DonIago]

^^ But...maybe I misread that, but the ship only has one reactor, not two and definitely not more than two.

Matter + Antimatter go into the dilithium chamber (top and bottom).
Plasma goes out through the power transfer conduits (sides) to the nacelles, and along the way is tapped for other ship systems.

 

[Pavonis]

I'm no expert on Trek history, but I recall reading that during the pre-production of the original series, Matt Jeffries decided that, whatever the means of power production, the source of power would likely be volatile and dangerous, and it would be safest to keep the warp engines as far from the crew as possible. That's why the warp nacelles are where they are.

I believe that idea went out the window in TMP, but possibly even earlier than that, maybe even during the original show.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ I personally still hold to that idea, though. The alternate in-universe theory is that the warp core actually PRODUCES antimatter and then pumps it up to the nacelles to be burned as fuel. That would explain why the core consists of a pair of magnetic constructors eight stories high: it's actually a particle accelerator firing a particle beam at a dilithium target, the result of which produces a stream of antimatter that is trapped and channeled up to the nacelles.

"Warp plasma" might very well be a thin stream of ionized antiparticles, come to think of it. In that case the EPS taps would be basically MHD turbines that capture positrons and annihilate them with electrons; the resulting voltage drop produces electrical current for high energy systems like shields and SIF fields. The rest of the anti-plasma goes into the warp nacelles where it gets "burned" with ordinary deuterium fuel, producing the warp field.

Just a thought.

 

[Nevyn]

And how does the warp core on Voyager work, because I don't seem to recognize a reactor chamber. The closest thing that looks like one, is a grey ring near the sealing. But it's way to high to be reachable. Unless you bring a ladder along, that is.