Fox TV's New Minstrel Show
- Thread starter Dusty Ayres
- Start date
How dare they depict black people in a negative light! I'm glad that I only watch shows like Dexter, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Big Love and The Tudors, which depict white people being utterly despicable and reprehensible beyond belief.
Not to mention Heroes. So glad it's Monday! What kind of idiotic and self-defeating depravity our Eye-talian Eagle Scout get up to tonight? I can hardly wait!
Not to mention Heroes. So glad it's Monday! What kind of idiotic and self-defeating depravity our Eye-talian Eagle Scout get up to tonight? I can hardly wait!
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
How dare they depict black people in a negative light! I'm glad that I only watch shows like Dexter, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Big Love and The Tudors, which depict white people being utterly despicable and reprehensible beyond belief.
Not to mention Heroes. So glad it's Monday! What kind of idiotic and self-defeating depravity our Eye-talian Eagle Scout get up to tonight? I can hardly wait!
For myself, I didn't really watch Family Guy, so I don't care about this new show to begin with, and might not watch it.
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
never mind
So what's the problem again?
Those same people also need to look up hypocrisy, double standard, and get over it already. Never show a minority in a negative light; it's racist. It's okay if they're white though. Make all the negative comments and jokes you like without repercussion.
What's the big deal? Is it that important for you to be able to insult minorities?
I don't particularly like The Cleveland Show because I don't think it's terribly funny. However, I accept that cartoons deal in stereotypes and archetypes. That said, Cleveland the character from Family Guy is just a play on "the token black guy" depicted in the 60s and 70s. He's a laid back soul brother and his son is Fat Albert. The Cleveland Show opens with Cleveland on a road trip to start a new job. He stops in his home town to look up his childhood sweetheart and finds her an unmarried mother in a somewhat destructive relationship with her childrens' father. The father, the mother, and the children are all modern stereotypes. Cleveland "does the right thing" and marries his childhood sweetheart and gives his child and hers a complete nuclear family. Accepting that cartoon characters in a comedy show are paper thin stereotypes, Cleveland is actually a pretty good guy.
My $.02.
My $.02.
That's what you got out of that?
It would be racist to treat the character differently. By making fun of the black characters on the show they are treating them the same way the white characters are treated. Are you advocating special treatment for blacks?
That's what you got out of that?
It would be racist to treat the character differently. By making fun of the black characters on the show they are treating them the same way the white characters are treated. Are you advocating special treatment for blacks?
We're not talking about people being passed over for job promotions or a family not being able to buy a house here, we're talking about people being made fun of on a comedy show.
According to you, the current state of affairs is "you can make fun of whites all you want, but you can't make fun of minorites". The only thing missing from the scenario you described is being able to make fun of minorities. So, I ask again, why are you so angry about not being able to make fun of minorities?
Yes. And you're advocating that they be treated differently. Is racism less racist because it involves something small?
No, that's not what I said at all. This thread is proof that the quote that you erroneously attribute to me is false. It more accuately describes the position of the writer of the quote in the OP. You are arguing with us for not agreeing with that quote. Can't you see that?
I'm impressed by your complete inability to comprehend what you've read in this thread, and by the number off errors you've managed to pack in to two quite short posts.
I'm not angry about not being able to make fun of minorities. Why not? This thread is proof that a show can do that.
I have not, in this thread, advanced a position that advocates changing how this show is made. The quote in the original post does.
The show is a spin off of a cartoon that features a dysfunctional white family. They are on the same night and network as the Simpsons, a very long running show about another dysfunctional white (well, "yellow" but clearly white) family. Cleveland's family is being treated the same way. Being treated the same isn't racist, in fact it's rather the opposite.
I've no dog in this race. It's a spin off that I don't watch of a show that I don't watch. But to complain, as the quote in the OP does, about the show depicting black kids growing up with out a father around as a negative representation of African Americans when nearly 60 percent of African American children in this country are growing up in a single parent house hold? Well, that's not racist. That's true to life. And if you're going to complain about that? Well, you're time would be better spent figuring out how to improve the situation in the real world rather than criticizing how it is presented on a bad cartoon on FOX.
I don't watch (or have any interest in) the show this thread is about, but that comparison is absurd. Yes, many of the white characters in these shows are assholes, but the vast majority of characters are smart, ambitious, successful and respectable (possibly with the exception of Breaking Bad, I don't really know that show, but definitely including SoA).
I was gonna type up a really long response with some history showing why this is racist, for this and the Song of the South thread, but...really what's the point?
We'll argue back and forth and the majority of people can't, won't, or don't see the racist depictions of this show no matter how it's explained. And if they do, they don't understand why it's harmful.
The discussion of race in America is always so touchy because of the chasm in perception of what is and isn't racism. Blacks see it as a more complex and institutional problem that is "perpetuated within structural settings, even without deliberate and bigoted intent, due to the normal workings of long entrenched policies, practices, and procedures." and whites simply see it as interpersonal meanness and think that the majority of society has moved on...
This is where it starts. And I think today's perceptions of racism in media stereotypes are a result. Historically minority representations in media are a result of racism, and today its legacy perpetuates those stereotypes used to demean, delegitimize, and dehumanize minorities. Those stereotypes still color our perceptions and are ingrained in the foundation of our society.
Looking back through history, the majority of Whites have been wrong about the problem of racism in every single generation. For example, a Gallup poll conducted in 1962 showed that a majority of Whites didn't think that Blacks had less opportunities in employment and education in the 1960's! Today, only a moron would deny that racism was a problem in the 60's. But back then good, and otherwise rational people denied its existence.
So if good people can so strongly deny what is right in front of them then, why is it so hard to believe that denial occurs today?
I understand that people have their own issues to worry about, but why are people either oblivious of issues of race or in denial? The evidence overwhelmingly points to on going effects of institutional racism. Rather than discussion centering on how to fix problems, time is wasted on discussing if there is a problem, or if certain imagery or phrases are racist. And as some have demonstrated here, they find that discussion absurd and laughable for completely different reasons than I do...
So no post providing background and history to show how it's racist, which will lead to an argument about whether it is racist or not. It IS a racist show. It's a clueless white guy's perception of black people in America and it's disgusting. It shouldn't be up for debate. I]Most[/I] Whites ignore the experiences of blacks and deny or explain away racism. I can't say what people are thinking, but what is said leads me to believe that many think that blacks are paranoid and always seeking to be the victims, trying to find racism lurking behind every corner.
I'm not saying that I'm not going to stop debating (on the rare occasions that I post) and trying to change minds on issues of race, but people in this forum get downright hostile when discussing issues of race.
Which is why I've emphasized certain words in this post. Because no matter how I try to make my criticisms as impersonal as possible, people always think I'm calling them racist.
I'm not, I don't know you or what's in your heart. Just please don't take criticism of society as a personal insult and keep an open mind...
Two things:
I personally never said racism didn't exist or was not a problem. It is a serious problem. The unfortunate reality is that a minority being made fun of in any way is called racist. Especially if they're black. Take that same scenario, make them white, magically the racism is gone.
Second is that everyone sees everything as racist these days. It's the new communism. Disagree with that? You're a commie... sorry, racist. Sometimes a joke is a joke, regardless of the skin color.
Sometimes it's out and out racist. And sometimes it's in the middle and a potrayal of racism made to not only highlight it still exists but to mock those who perpetuate the stereotypes by acting them out. And don't even pretend that there aren't people who don't fit racist stereotypes to a "T". The only issue should be if that stereotype is used to represent an entire group or race of people which it isn't all the time. The Cleveland Show also has racist rednecks; white people. I have yet to see anyone say that it's unfair to show white people as white trash who act like that. It lacks a hispanic character too. And asian. I don't see anyone making a fuss over that.
Race issues in America are not a "white person's" problem. Anyone and everyone can be racist but it's always whites who get the blame. Rarely will you see a case of racism against whites genuinely decried or publically disavowed as hateful and harmful to improving society. Typically the response is to dodge accepting that any race other than whites can be racist or that it's acceptable because other races were discriminated for so long. "Get what they gave" as the saying goes despite not every white person being racist or offensive, it's easy to just lump everyone together.
I'm sure there will be a refutal to that which will invoke calling me a racist (around here wouldn't be the first time) but it will of course miss the point that only calling out one race for it is not fair or right. If you want an end to racism, you can't play favorites or dislikes and include or exclude any race.
I personally never said racism didn't exist or was not a problem. It is a serious problem. The unfortunate reality is that a minority being made fun of in any way is called racist. Especially if they're black. Take that same scenario, make them white, magically the racism is gone.
Second is that everyone sees everything as racist these days. It's the new communism. Disagree with that? You're a commie... sorry, racist. Sometimes a joke is a joke, regardless of the skin color.
Sometimes it's out and out racist. And sometimes it's in the middle and a potrayal of racism made to not only highlight it still exists but to mock those who perpetuate the stereotypes by acting them out. And don't even pretend that there aren't people who don't fit racist stereotypes to a "T". The only issue should be if that stereotype is used to represent an entire group or race of people which it isn't all the time. The Cleveland Show also has racist rednecks; white people. I have yet to see anyone say that it's unfair to show white people as white trash who act like that. It lacks a hispanic character too. And asian. I don't see anyone making a fuss over that.
Race issues in America are not a "white person's" problem. Anyone and everyone can be racist but it's always whites who get the blame. Rarely will you see a case of racism against whites genuinely decried or publically disavowed as hateful and harmful to improving society. Typically the response is to dodge accepting that any race other than whites can be racist or that it's acceptable because other races were discriminated for so long. "Get what they gave" as the saying goes despite not every white person being racist or offensive, it's easy to just lump everyone together.
I'm sure there will be a refutal to that which will invoke calling me a racist (around here wouldn't be the first time) but it will of course miss the point that only calling out one race for it is not fair or right. If you want an end to racism, you can't play favorites or dislikes and include or exclude any race.
Blacksploitation ROTFL...?
Really, There's a difference between making fun of stereotypes and exploiting them for a cheap and unfunny joke.
I haven't watched Cleavland, but based on the utter comedic retardedness of FG and AD, I'm inclined to think they really are ripping off something like "Birth of a Nation" and failing to be ironic about it.
Really, There's a difference between making fun of stereotypes and exploiting them for a cheap and unfunny joke.
I haven't watched Cleavland, but based on the utter comedic retardedness of FG and AD, I'm inclined to think they really are ripping off something like "Birth of a Nation" and failing to be ironic about it.
Dexter's a frigging serial killer, some of the execs on Mad Men are a cigarette-chomping, womanizing sociopaths, and the main character on Breaking Bad makes methamphetamine!
It sounds like you not only don't watch any of these shows, you're dismissing his comparison out of hand without knowing what these shows are even about.