Why would God send someone to hell over suicide?

[cultcross]

In fact, given, the idea there is an all-knowing, all-powerful, and highly compassionate God,

Which is not a Christian idea, or at least not a Biblical one. The God of the Bible is not all-knowing or all-powerful. The whole story of "Job" relies on either God not knowing the outcome, or Satan being so enormously thick as to be unaware that God knows the outcome, despite being his former right hand man. Certainly, it isn't a story that, taken literally, allows for an all-knowing God. Who would make a wager with an all knowing entity?

 

[Amaris]

In fact, given, the idea there is an all-knowing, all-powerful, and highly compassionate God,

Which is not a Christian idea, or at least not a Biblical one. The God of the Bible is not all-knowing or all-powerful. The whole story of "Job" relies on either God not knowing the outcome, or Satan being so enormously thick as to be unaware that God knows the outcome, despite being his former right hand man. Certainly, it isn't a story that, taken literally, allows for an all-knowing God. "Jonah" either, for that matter.

You've just cited one of the thousand cuts. The idea of God in the Bible being all knowing and all powerful does not jibe with the God of the Bible's behavior. If you're all knowing and all powerful, you don't get pissed when someone doesn't believe in you. That is an entirely limited, all too human reaction.

J.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

again, God's vanity is far more important to him than his sense of empathy, and it is for this reason that (should he exist as stated) makes him unworthy of any reverence or worship.

 

[Amaris]

again, God's vanioty is far more importnat to him, than his sense of empathy, and it is for this reason that (should he exist as stated) makes him unworthy of any reverence or worship.

Which should tell you that the God of the Bible is a completely human concept, just as Zeus, Brahma and the million other gods are, too, human concepts. They all embody the particular traits of the believer. Someone finds homosexuality disgusting? Well, guess what? The God of the Bible finds homosexuality disgusting, and it works conversely, too. You find homosexuality acceptable? Well, God never said a thing about gay people in any negative light! You insult a believer? Well, you just insulted God, buddy, because he won't stand for his children to be insulted! All of it requires mental gymnastics just to stay ahead of the game. The Lord works in mysterious ways! We don't know the ways of God! You have to accept Him in your heart! He won't force you! Well, yeah, that's because he's not there. You have to make the move to consider the possibility that he exists. You have to make God a valid possibility to make it work. Once you do that, you can fall back on emotionalism and spirituality to do the work.

J.

 

[Kegg]

no, it seems arrogant.

Because?

Honestly, the idea of an all-knowing God who created the universe entirely who only cares about the big picture sounds to me like a pretty stupid godhead - one who misses the trees for the forest, who can only see the forest, and may not quite get how the tree things are supposed to work.

The little things are part of the big thing, a Godly perspective would be able to understand how that whole tapestry fits together (or doesn't) in precisely ways we don't and would care about the whole thing because it's basically what he's involved in, the business of the universe large and small and tiny and insiginificant and large again.

But enough of that: Is'nt your definition of God

It's not mine. I don't claim any originality here.

 

[Pingfah]

To answer his question, Christ speaks quite clearly to me. That is why He is the One over any other. I just assume he's never been touched by Christ. If he had been we wouldn't be having this conversation in my opinion.'

You didn't answer his question at all actually, which hardly comes as a surprise.

Thanks for answering my earlier question J, you became deluged very quickly though, so I decided not to press you on it

 

[Amaris]

To answer his question, Christ speaks quite clearly to me. That is why He is the One over any other. I just assume he's never been touched by Christ. If he had been we wouldn't be having this conversation in my opinion.'

You didn't answer his question at all actually, which hardly comes as a surprise.

Thanks for answering my earlier question j, you became deluged very quickly though, so I decided not to press you on it

You're welcome, Pingfah. It did get a little hectic for a bit, but I think it's okay now.

J.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

pretty stupid godhead

that's my thought, really. He's a pretty stupid godhead, for wiping out whole populations who don't agree with him, or for endorsing slavery, or for requiring utter fiath in his son (who happens to be him) and for performing all the supposed miracles before humans learned to record, playback and share such records to give said miracles credence.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Satan being so enormously thick as to be unaware that God knows the outcome, despite being his former right hand man.

I find that very likely.

 

[FlyingLemons]

Thing is, the context within which Satan appears in the book of Job is far different to the context the idea of Satan is taken in Christianity. Satan is considered in the original Jewish context to be more like God's prosecutor, pointing out to God all of the evil actions and selfish deeds done by mankind. Satan has no power over humans to make them do evil, but rather just accuse. Humans are the ones that do good and evil rather than anything supernatural or external.

To me, that makes a lot more sense.

 

[I'm Kirk]

I just know what I feel..the only way you can be convinced of Jesus Christ being the image of God and how the Holy Spirit fills you after you are born again is to be born again yourself...then your spiritual eyes will be opened and then you will see for yourself what Christians are trying to explain. It is an internal spiritual thing. You know that Jesus is the only one who said He was the only way to God? All the other "religions" say you have to "do" or work at something to attain eternal life. Jesus says to believe in Him, commit to Him and that is all.

 

[Amaris]

I just know what I feel..the only way you can be convinced of Jesus Christ being the image of God and how the Holy Spirit fills you after you are born again is to be born again yourself...then your spiritual eyes will be opened and then you will see for yourself what Christians are trying to explain. It is an internal spiritual thing. You know that Jesus is the only one who said He was the only way to God? All the other "religions" say you have to "do" or work at something to attain eternal life. Jesus says to believe in Him, commit to Him and that is all.

To be honest, there really is more to it than that. You can't just say you believe and accept, there are things you have to do, works you have to perform and rules you have to follow. You can say "I accept you Jesus!" and mean it. Great, you're in the club. Now you have to earn your keep. It's never as easy as "that is all".

J.

 

[Kegg]

All the other "religions" say you have to "do" or work at something to attain eternal life. Jesus says to believe in Him, commit to Him and that is all.

Dude! Amida Buddhism is completely up your alley. All you have to do is call on Amida, and really mean it, and you'll be reincarnated in a paradise known as the Pure Land where living according to Buddhist ways is possible (or so I vaguely understand the practice from reading a book on it four years ago don't judge me, random Buddhist posters.)

 

[Amaris]

All the other "religions" say you have to "do" or work at something to attain eternal life. Jesus says to believe in Him, commit to Him and that is all.

Dude! Amida Buddhism is completely up your alley. All you have to do is call on Amida, and really mean it, and you'll be reincarnated in a paradise known as the Pure Land where living according to Buddhist ways is possible (or so I vaguely understand the practice from reading a book on it four years ago don't judge me, random Buddhist posters.)

That would be the Original Vow, and you are correct.

J.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You can't just say you believe and accept, there are things you have to do, works you have to perform and rules you have to follow.

Not true. We are saved by faith alone - *not* by works.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that none can boast.

- Ephesians 2: 8-9

Now this is not to say that you shouldn't do good things. Of course we all should. But you should do them because you want to. No one can earn their way into Heaven. That's not how it goes. It's not something that can be bought or bargained for.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

You can't just say you believe and accept, there are things you have to do, works you have to perform and rules you have to follow.

Not true. We are saved by faith alone - *not* by works.

Faith saves us, yes. But works are the natural fruit of faith, else we ignore the words of James, that "Faith without works is dead." Faith illuminates us to the inherent good in those works and nurtures the desire to do those things, as well as giving us sensitivity towards our particular calling, that we fulfill our purpose. All of it starts and ends with faith. But, faith is lived and not just spoken, or else it is indeed dead. We won't be graded according to the dollar amount or minutes we give, and we sure don't earn salvation on any merit of ours. But, I believe it will be considered, did we just SAY we had faith, or was it a living faith? Not a point system, again, but one basic question. But this should not be any concern to a person who has faith...they won't have to worry about works. That'll simply happen naturally, without any fretting over it or any legalistic checklists.

 

[Amaris]

You can't just say you believe and accept, there are things you have to do, works you have to perform and rules you have to follow.

Not true. We are saved by faith alone - *not* by works.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that none can boast.

- Ephesians 2: 8-9

Now this is not to say that you shouldn't do good things. Of course we all should. But you should do them because you want to. No one can earn their way into Heaven. That's not how it goes. It's not something that can be bought or bargained for.

Yet James 2:20 says that faith without works is dead. You'll notice I didn't say you had to work to be saved, just that you have to work once you accept. Otherwise, your faith is considered dead, so no, it's never "all you have to do", there is always another shoe to drop.

Edit: Noel beat me to it.

J.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yet James 2:20 says that faith without works is dead.

You don't have faith because you do good works, it's the other way around. You do good works because you have faith. Linky

We are saved by faith alone, according to Scripture alone, in Christ alone. That's really all there is to it.

 

[Amaris]

Yet James 2:20 says that faith without works is dead.

You don't have faith because you do good works, it's the other way around. You do good works because you have faith.

We are saved by faith alone, according to Scripture alone, in Christ alone. That's really all there is to it.

Please quote the rest of my post where I explained that you don't need works to be saved, but you do once you are saved. It's a little disingenuous to argue with me when I actually said what you're saying.

J.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

MLB (and I begin to think you chose your name because the abbreviation is also Major League Baseball), I hope you don't think I was arguing with you. But I see a lot of people who seem to think going to the front at an altar call is all they need. That's the seed, and it's a very good thing. But faith is a growing and living thing inside of you, that if properly nurtured will naturally run over and that running-over becomes works.