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Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Superheroes

Mr Light

Admiral
Admiral
So I'm working my way through the complete series set of this 26 episode cartoon series from a couple years ago. I had already seen most of these episodes on the individual DVDs with only nine unreleased episodes remaining.

Maybe it's just because in the meantime I've read a bunch of the Kirby/Lee issues in the B&W Essential trades, but I enjoyed the series a great deal more this time around. It really felt loyal to the comic book while at the same time being updated and fresh. The animation was top notch, though the character designs were a mite angular.

What did you think of the show?

Also, why the hell did it get that bizarre airing? They aired a couple episodes on Cartoon Network then yanked it off the schedule and apparently only ever aired half of them? Did it get horrible ratings or something?
 
I've been watching it on NickToons. It took a while to get used to the visual style of the show. I don't like some of the characterizations. Reed Richards seems distracted all the time, and Johnny Storm lacks maturity.
 
It wasn't a very good show, but it had its moments here and there. Mainly I liked Sue. Her character design was pretty hot, and she was portrayed as a very strong and capable character, the most level-headed and responsible member of the team (if you discount the scene in the first-aired episode where she faints upon learning of Johnny's abduction). But the portrayal of Johnny was awful and really annoying. He's supposed to be a hothead, not a complete airhead.
 
Also, why the hell did it get that bizarre airing? They aired a couple episodes on Cartoon Network then yanked it off the schedule and apparently only ever aired half of them? Did it get horrible ratings or something?

Cartoon Network is strange like that. IIRC, Justice League's last season's episodes aired once a week. You missed it...tough cookies.
 
I don't like some of the characterizations. Reed Richards seems distracted all the time, and Johnny Storm lacks maturity.

Reed Richards is SUPPOSED be distracted all the time, and Johnny Storm is SUPPOSED to lack maturity. Sounds like they got it right.
 
If this is the one I'm thinking of, I saw a couple of episodes and couldn't muster up the interest to watch more; it was uninspired at best.

But I've pretty much lost track of all the Marvel cartoons. It seems that with TV cartoons at least, Marvel can do no right and DC can do no wrong (well, Teen Titans isn't quite my thing). These are sad days for me all around, as a big Marvelmaniac from the 60s and 70s, and into the 80s).
 
I watched I think five episodes which I thought were okay...their costume designs to me look like they were based off the Ultimate FF. Sue was my favorite character.
 
I don't like some of the characterizations. Reed Richards seems distracted all the time, and Johnny Storm lacks maturity.

Reed Richards is SUPPOSED be distracted all the time, and Johnny Storm is SUPPOSED to lack maturity. Sounds like they got it right.
Not really. The show exaggerates Reed and Johnny's worst qualities. In the comics, Reed is a lot more focused, and Sue doesn't have to tell him what's happening every five minutes. On the cartoon show, Reed succeeds as leader of the FF in spite of himself.

As for Johnny, on the show he's just an idiot. I don't like anything about him. When he was captured and tried by Ronan the Accuser (for perceived crimes against the Kree Empire), I found myself siding with Ronan.

Other topic: I used to wonder if Reed and Sue were married on the program. Then I noticed that Sue seemed to have her own bedroom in the Baxter Building. So that answers that question.
 
But I've pretty much lost track of all the Marvel cartoons. It seems that with TV cartoons at least, Marvel can do no right and DC can do no wrong...

Actually FF:WGS was one of Marvel's few TV-series misfires over the past few years. The Spectacular Spider-Man was superb, and Wolverine and the X-Men and Iron Man: Armored Adventures are both pretty good too.

The difference between DC and Marvel when it comes to TV production is that all of DC's shows are made by Warner Bros. while the Marvel shows are at least sometimes farmed out to various production partners. So there's less consistency among the Marvel shows. FF:WGS was produced by MoonScoop, a "Franime" (anime-influenced French animation) company.


Not really. The show exaggerates Reed and Johnny's worst qualities. In the comics, Reed is a lot more focused, and Sue doesn't have to tell him what's happening every five minutes. On the cartoon show, Reed succeeds as leader of the FF in spite of himself.

As for Johnny, on the show he's just an idiot. I don't like anything about him. When he was captured and tried by Ronan the Accuser (for perceived crimes against the Kree Empire), I found myself siding with Ronan.

Quite right. Like I said, it's one thing to portray Johnny as an impetuous guy with impulse control issues, but this show just portrayed him as an irritating moron, a character with the maturity of a 6-year-old and the intellect of a 3-year-old. And an annoying, whiny voice too.


Other topic: I used to wonder if Reed and Sue were married on the program. Then I noticed that Sue seemed to have her own bedroom in the Baxter Building. So that answers that question.

Well, she was billed in the credits as Sue Storm rather than Sue Richards. Of course, lots of married women in real life keep their surnames, but in the comics, Sue didn't, so I assume any adaptation that calls her Sue Storm means for her to be single.

Also, the show was basically constructed as a pseudo-continuation of the first FF movie (using the movie origin story, a black Alicia Masters, and other elements from the film mixed with more conventional FF concepts like the portrayal of Dr. Doom), and movieverse Reed and Sue didn't get married until the sequel.
 
But I've pretty much lost track of all the Marvel cartoons. It seems that with TV cartoons at least, Marvel can do no right and DC can do no wrong...

Actually FF:WGS was one of Marvel's few TV-series misfires over the past few years. The Spectacular Spider-Man was superb, and Wolverine and the X-Men and Iron Man: Armored Adventures are both pretty good too.

The difference between DC and Marvel when it comes to TV production is that all of DC's shows are made by Warner Bros. while the Marvel shows are at least sometimes farmed out to various production partners. So there's less consistency among the Marvel shows. FF:WGS was produced by MoonScoop, a "Franime" (anime-influenced French animation) company.
I think I may have seen a couple of episodes of Spectacular Spider-Man and didn't like them; I didn't bother with Wolverine and the X-Men or Iron Man: Armored Adventures. I had given up on Marvel in general by that point. I was almost encouraged by the new one on Cartoon Network-- I can't think of the name-- that uses some old character designs (Valkyrie is on there, for example), but I couldn't even sit through a whole episode it was so bad.
 
Marvel has really sort of slip in the decent animation department of late. Either you get good stories and shitty artwork or decent artwork and shitty stories. FF:WGH seems to be a mix of both. I mean, I guess I miss the 90s when Marvel had THE BEST animated series. Spider-Man, X-Men, Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk - sure they were a mite kiddified but at the same time they did try to stay pretty true to the spirit of the source material they adapted. With X-Men being probably one of the best in that regard, basically taking entire comics storylines and condensing them down. Same with Fantastic Four and Iron Man. It was pretty cool when the old FF cartoon was on and doing the Galactus Saga and around that time I had discovered my dad had a copy of the original Fantastic Four #48 in his old box of comics and such.

I'm holding out hope that maybe now that Marvel and Disney are sleeping in the same bed now, that we'll get some better animated stuff. DC had its winners with the Batman and JLA/JLU stuff, Marvel really needs something like JLU - that ISN'T Superhero Squad - which is really pretty lame. Its fun for kids who are into shit like Spongebob, but it just doesn't grab me like JLU or the old 90s era Marvel stuff did. And the sad thing is... some of those old shows are nearly 20 years old!!! :shock: I'm getting old!
 
I didn't find the Iron Man or Hulk or FF'90s series to be that great. And the animation was atrocious. X-Men I loved at the time but I'd have to watch it again now to see if it holds up. I remember the last season was completely horrible. Thanks to only having basic cable I've yet to see Wolverine/X-Men or Spec Spidey S2 but I'm really, really looking forward to them. Iron Man '09 I saw the pilot of and didn't care for it, either the animation or the story.
 
Marvel has really sort of slip in the decent animation department of late. Either you get good stories and shitty artwork or decent artwork and shitty stories. FF:WGH seems to be a mix of both. I mean, I guess I miss the 90s when Marvel had THE BEST animated series. Spider-Man, X-Men, Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk - sure they were a mite kiddified but at the same time they did try to stay pretty true to the spirit of the source material they adapted. With X-Men being probably one of the best in that regard, basically taking entire comics storylines and condensing them down. Same with Fantastic Four and Iron Man. It was pretty cool when the old FF cartoon was on and doing the Galactus Saga and around that time I had discovered my dad had a copy of the original Fantastic Four #48 in his old box of comics and such.

I'm holding out hope that maybe now that Marvel and Disney are sleeping in the same bed now, that we'll get some better animated stuff. DC had its winners with the Batman and JLA/JLU stuff, Marvel really needs something like JLU - that ISN'T Superhero Squad - which is really pretty lame. Its fun for kids who are into shit like Spongebob, but it just doesn't grab me like JLU or the old 90s era Marvel stuff did. And the sad thing is... some of those old shows are nearly 20 years old!!! :shock: I'm getting old!

Yeah, it definitely seems to have gone straight to hell since those wonderful early-to-late-90's shows.

I haven't seen FF, but I didn't hear good things about it, so I've never gotten around to checking it out.
 
^I'm surprised by what I'm hearing about the '90s shows. They were really mixed in their quality. X-Men and Spider-Man on FOX had excellent writing for the time and captured the rich characterizations and storylines of the comics better than any prior Marvel animated show, but they were often melodramatic and stilted, and their animation was problematical. Spider-Man started off with superb animation (from Tokyo Movie Shinsha, probably the best animation studio in the world), but as its budget shrank over the years, its animation became cruder. X-Men had consistently shoddy animation. As for the contemporaneous syndicated Marvel shows, the first seasons of Iron Man and Fantastic Four were atrocious in both writing and animation; the second seasons of both rose to merely mediocre. The first season of The Incredible Hulk from the same producers was moderately good (well, the opening and closing 3-parters were excellent, the stuff in between mediocre), but the second season was dumbed down and frivolous by comparison. Then FOX dropped the TMS Spidey series and gave us Spider-Man Unlimited, which was lame. Its short-lived Silver Surfer series wasn't much better.

The present-day Marvel shows are more consistent, more polished, lacking the stilted, awkward qualities of even the best of the '90s shows. In terms of writing, only Spectacular Spider-Man is on a par with the '90s Spidey and X-Men, but they're all much better than the syndicated FF or IM, and somewhat better than Hulk. In terms of animation, the modern shows are better than all the '90s shows except for the early TMS Spidey seasons.

Actually the finest animation in any Marvel show -- and perhaps in any animated superhero show ever -- was in X-Men Evolution. However, the writing in that show was mediocre. Much of the first two seasons was disposable and forgettable, though it got much better in the last two seasons. SSM is the best-animated of the recent crop of shows as well as the best-written, but its character designs are an acquired taste.
 
Well, Weisman openly stated in the SSM Season set that the character designs were intentional. The simple the designs, the better to animate for fluidity and fight scenes.
 
^Well, yes, that's nothing new; stylized, simplified character designs have been standard in American TV animation since Batman: TAS, and for exactly that reason. But the particular design style being used in SSM, the style of chief character designer Sean "Cheeks" Galloway, is rather idiosyncratic, with odd features like pupil-less eyes and strangely drawn noses. As much as I liked the animation style of the show overall, I never quite warmed to Galloway's design style.
 
Well the cartoon is based on the little toyline so really, its not a huge arse shock that they would want the show to look like the toys, so kids will go to the store and beg their parents for the barely articulated little statue toys.

And I agree with a previous poster about Spec.Spider-Man and X-Men Evolution those are two pretty decent shows. Iron Man:Armored Adventures is actually growing on me a tad, even though I despise the fact they made him Iron Teen... and Pepper isn't his employee but his perky sidekick-ish thing.... ugh. But I did enjoy some of the stories to the point where I could look beyond that.

What I keep saying and I keep wanting is a good Marvel Universe show, basically SuperHero squad but written for an older audience. I don't mind stylized animation, as long as the stories are well written and based on some of the actual comics and they have some good voice actors. I think if they could do basically an Avengers show, with a rotating cast of characters, maybe a few constants, but where say, Iron Man or Captain America can work with other characters on a regular basis, so you could have say, Spider-Man or the X-Men or the FF or even some "obscure" ones like the Thunderbolts or Alpha Flight or Ghost Rider... Deathlok, Sleepwalker...

I think some of the best Marvel stories were the ones that allowed characters from all over the MU to "guest star" and take the best of all worlds. Like I would love a Civil War animated series. That could lead into Secret Invasion, which could lead into Dark Reign... and beyond LOL... and the reason I'm picking recent storylines is because part of what the animation should do is prompt people to look at the comics again. I mean it would be kinda cool at the top or end of the episode to have a little crawl under the episode title "based on events in Civil War #1-3, Invincible Iron Man #27, Amazing Spider-Man #633 or something to that effect. So people if they are interested in learning more about the story can go to their LCS or Amazon or something and find the stories that related to it. Not that many would, but it would be a nice bit of cross promotion with the animation and publishing part of Marvel. Not saying you need to read the comics to get the cartoon.

Although in my perfect world, we'd have a daily dose of Marvel animation, 5 different shows one on each day of the week. Avengers, Iron Man, Spider-Man, X-Men and a general Marvel Universe show on Fridays - basically which could be a test bed to see what characters get good response from fans. And even more perfect would be continuity between the shows to an extent. So if say in Iron Man he's fighting the Beatle, Spider-Man could swing past some damaged building and go "Still haven't repaired the damage Shellhead and Beatle's little brawl." stuff like that would be pretty awesome. Instead of each cartoon existing in its own little world, and it could for multipart episodes and other arcs, but it relates to the MU as a whole. That IS one thing I always liked about the old FOX Spider-Man and X-Men shows, they were actually in the same continuity. I recall an episode of Spider-Man where he goes and visits the X-Men and they are in the same designs as the X-Men show, same voices everything, even something Wolverine told Spider-Man kind of related back to their show I recall. So that was neat, First time I think outside of Superman and Batman where two cartoons acknowledged another one's existence.
 
See, I can overlook stuff like animation if the writing and voice acting are excellent, and I don't think anything in modern times (although Spectacular Spiderman does come quite close) measures up to the best of those 90's shows.

I also don't think the animation for the 90's X-Men or Spiderman were that bad.

I'll definitely agree with you about Iron Man and FF. I disliked what I saw in both first seasons so much that I never actually came back for either show's second season. I'm not a big X-Men: Evolution fan, but I'll take that show over Iron Man, FF and probably even The Hulk (never did get to see that three-parter) any day.
 
Well the cartoon is based on the little toyline so really, its not a huge arse shock that they would want the show to look like the toys, so kids will go to the store and beg their parents for the barely articulated little statue toys.

You must be thinking of The Super Hero Squad Show, which is a different topic. My comments about character design pertained to The Spectacular Spider-Man. In that case, as I said, the character designs were created for the show by artist Sean "Cheeks" Galloway. The SSM toys are based on the show designs, unlike SHS, where the toys did come first.


And I agree with a previous poster about Spec.Spider-Man and X-Men Evolution those are two pretty decent shows.

Do you mean Wolverine and the X-Men? It's from many of the same creators as X-Men Evolution and has a roughly similar design style, but is a very different show.


That IS one thing I always liked about the old FOX Spider-Man and X-Men shows, they were actually in the same continuity. I recall an episode of Spider-Man where he goes and visits the X-Men and they are in the same designs as the X-Men show, same voices everything, even something Wolverine told Spider-Man kind of related back to their show I recall. So that was neat, First time I think outside of Superman and Batman where two cartoons acknowledged another one's existence.

Oh, there were cartoon crossovers before then, but generally not between extant superhero shows. Such as the Superfriends Batman and Robin or the Hanna-Barbera Addams Family showing up on Scooby-Doo. Heck, there were some Hanna-Barbera shows (like Laff-a-Lympics) which brought dozens of their established characters together in the same show. For that matter, it goes all the way back to Betty Boop guest-starring in the first Popeye cartoon.

As far as superhero shows go, the Spider-Man cartoons of the '70s and '80s often had guest superheroes from other Marvel titles, but nothing that was on the air at the time, I think.

It's also worth noting that when Iron Man and War Machine guest-starred in the FOX Spidey series, they were voiced by Robert Hays and James Avery, the same actors who played them in the contemporaneous syndicated Iron Man series (though Avery had been replaced by Dorian Harewood in the main show by that point). Beyond that, it wasn't clear if they were meant to be in the same continuity, but it certainly implied as much. However, when the Fantastic Four and Dr. Doom appeared in the "Secret Wars" episodes, only Johnny had the same voice he'd had in the '90s FF cartoon. But Captain America had the same voice (David Hayter) in his guest appearances on both Spider-Man and X-Men. Hayter reprised the role of Cap in X-Men Evolution, even though that was clearly a separate continuity. (And yes, that's the same David Hayter who wrote the first two X-Men movies.)


I also don't think the animation for the 90's X-Men or Spiderman were that bad.

As I said, Spider-Man had superb animation to start with, but it got progressively cheaper and clunkier over time. Its premiere episode, "Night of the Lizard," is one of the most gorgeously animated cartoons ever created for television, on a par with the work TMS did for The New Batman/Superman Adventures.

As for X-Men... as the work of the Akom studio goes, it's one of their less ghastly efforts. Compared to the shoddy work they did in the second season of Exosquad, it's excellent. But compared to the likes of TMS, it's awfully clunky. Part of the problem was that they hewed too close to the detailed design style of the comics, which made the animation stiff and cumbersome. As discussed above, streamlined character designs allow for much more fluid and expressive animation.

I'll definitely agree with you about Iron Man and FF. I disliked what I saw in both first seasons so much that I never actually came back for either show's second season.

That's too bad, because both shows were completely retooled after their first seasons, with totally new writing staffs and animation studios and some changes in format and casting. The second-season FF and IM were essentially completely different shows from the first-season versions. They weren't as good as FOX's Spidey and X-Men, but they were brilliant compared to their first seasons.
 
Oh yeah I loved loved loved the 90s Spidey toon. Well the final season was bad and the animation got even worse, but the first 3 years were incredible! X-Men Evolution I watched once a couple years ago and thought it was initially very lame but improved over time. I'm actually going to be rewatching it in the mornings now so we'll see how it holds up.
 
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