Klingon torpedoes ... why all the light beams?

[RapidNadion]

Ever since I was a kid watching the original movies (over and over), I've wondered why the Klingon torpedoes fired from the K'Tingas were so "flashy," for lack of a better word. If you re-watch the Klingon-V'Ger battle sequence in TMP, and the Kobayashi Maru sequence in TWOK, you'll notice the Klingon torpedoes have very distinctly bright beams that seem to emanate randomly from various points. This effect is not seen on any other torpedo in the films, except for a more-subdued example in the lone torpedo fired by the Enterprise in TMP (in the wormhole).

I could dismiss it as simple lens flare, caused by a brighter torpedo, but it seems to be more than that. I'm interested in speculation on this, in both a behind- and before-the-camera sense. What are those beams, in the ST universe? Proximity lasers for detonation? A byproduct of the torpedo shielding? Or do they even exist? Are they simply a camera effect?

And finally, post-production-wise ... how'd they do that?

 

[Timo]

In-universe, it'd be fun to speculate that Klingon torpedoes (the ones from the battle cruisers) are cruder affairs than their UFP counterparts. That'd be a nice extension of the Klingons-as-Soviets analogue: the western antiship missiles / UFP torpedoes are small and accurate, while the Soviet antiship missiles / Klingon torpedoes are the size of small aircraft, enjoy superior range and explosive power, have inferior targeting, and sport ridiculous radar cross sections and heat signatures.

To put that in technobabble, the subspace fields of Klingon torpedo sustainer engines are "leakier" than their UFP counterparts, and their waste radiation glow at the field edges is much more intense as the result. Whenever the waste radiation bursts in the direction of the viewer/camera, a "flare" results, just as with any intense light source aimed directly at you. The Klingons don't mind because their giant torpedoes have power to burn.

(The torpedoes fired by the Birds of Prey are a different matter. These green-glowing weapons are relatively small, and while they also have these leaky engines, their warheads are designed to wound rather than kill, as evidenced in ST3, ST5 and ST:GEN. Ideal for an invisible commerce raider whose function is similar to that of early 20th century submarines!)

Out-of-universe, I'd also be interested in learning how they do the torpedo glow. Or did, before it became all CGI.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

The light rays coming from the torp fired by the Enterprise are just like those fired by the Klingon ship...it's just not seen for as long as as point-blank. The effect was identical, just a different color was applied.

Also, most subsequent torps in the films had rays coming off them...just not as lengthy. They were clearly inspired by the TMP torps.

 

[RapidNadion]

Timo, I rather like that rationalization. I unconsciously assumed the Klingon torpedoes were cruder in my theory as well, speculating that the occasional flare-ups in the lengthy beams were briefly-visible radiation bursts from a proximity sensor system that wasn't too refined.

Also, most subsequent torps in the films had rays coming off them...just not as lengthy. They were clearly inspired by the TMP torps.

Agreed - but it's the length of those rays that are the principal reason the Klingon torpedoes are so interesting to me. They were drastically shortened for TWOK torpedoes, and that attribute remained steady going forward. By the time we were at TUC, torps were nearly rayless.

This is a good site I just came across with some wonderful screencaps of torpedo launches, and a pretty interesting argument about "blotch size growth:"

http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWtorpglow.html

 

[Cyke101]

I would have liked to have seen whole fleets exchange fire with those types of torpedoes, though it would probably be one psychedelic, kaleidoscope type mess...

...

Somebody make this happen already!

 

[Christopher]

The Enterprise's torpedoes in TMP were created using the same effect as the Klingon torpedoes, just colored differently. Like many of the TMP light effects, it was created with a laser, specifically a laser beam refracted through a rotating, multifaceted crystal.

 

[RapidNadion]

^ Ahhh. So they shot a motion-control series of a static, rotating crystal with a laser shone on it, then inserted it? That's fascinating.

 

[Christopher]

I don't know if that's exactly it. There was an article I read a month or so ago about this -- I think someone here linked me to it. It was mainly about creating the V'Ger flyover sequence. I can't remember how to find it.

 

[Prologic9]

There's been a little variation over the years but they've always been pretty streaky, regardless of their origins.

 

[RapidNadion]

^ Wow. Nice compilation. The TMP Enterprise photorp looks really sharp there - wish they'd stuck with that design a little longer.

 

[JarodRussell]

It's just supposed to be a lens flare. Star Trek 6 is the only one where they actually used a real lens flare, all the other ones look hand painted, same technique they used for the phaser beams, light sabers or lightnings, only a different shape.

 

[Anticitizen]

They're photon torpedoes, dude - whaddya expect?

 

[The Castellan]

In-universe, it'd be fun to speculate that Klingon torpedoes (the ones from the battle cruisers) are cruder affairs than their UFP counterparts.

I always wonder why would it be 'cruder'. I mean in Archer's time, the Klingons had superior technology....and why would they suddenly be less advanced 1 century later?

I always liked the way the torpedos looked there....more like energy rather than a casing being fired.

 

[Christopher]

I always wonder why would it be 'cruder'. I mean in Archer's time, the Klingons had superior technology....and why would they suddenly be less advanced 1 century later?

Because they lack regard for scientists, and thus their rate of technological progress would be slower. They had a headstart, but the UFP caught up and surpassed them.

 

[Cyke101]

It's just supposed to be a lens flare. Star Trek 6 is the only one where they actually used a real lens flare, all the other ones look hand painted, same technique they used for the phaser beams, light sabers or lightnings, only a different shape.

I don't think it's supposed to be just a mere lens flare, or else the photorps in TMP would make Abrams cream his pants

 

[trevanian]

^ Ahhh. So they shot a motion-control series of a static, rotating crystal with a laser shone on it, then inserted it? That's fascinating.

No, it was shot static, then tracked over the moving ship image. If you tied up the mocon stuff with every element in that pic, they'd still be working on TMP. It seriously suffers from degradation inherent in optical copying; what must have been an awesome original element almost looks like flat animation because the flares just got contrastier (too much so IMO) -- but if they'd been able to do it first-generation, I think it'd still be the definitive torp look.

 

[FredH]

I always liked the way the torpedos looked there....more like energy rather than a casing being fired.

True. But given that we retrospectively know (from TWOK onwards) that there is an opaque casing, what's causing the energy flash?

It could be the antimatter reaction being released inside the torpedo as soon as it's launched--with the blast being so bright that it shines right through the still-intact casing, which breaks open upon impact (or else slowly ablates from the inside when it misses)--but that seems inefficient.

Plus, Spock's coffin-torpedo glows when it's launched, even before it enters the Genesis planet's atmosphere, so it's not friction (or, obviously, a matter-antimatter reaction).

(Side note: The first time I saw TWOK, when the coffin curves around into the planet and the sun rises from the same point, I assumed for a few moments that that was the final, vaporizing flash of the coffin during reentry.)

 

[JarodRussell]

I always liked the way the torpedos looked there....more like energy rather than a casing being fired.

True. But given that we retrospectively know (from TWOK onwards) that there is an opaque casing, what's causing the energy flash?

It could be the antimatter reaction being released inside the torpedo as soon as it's launched--with the blast being so bright that it shines right through the still-intact casing, which breaks open upon impact (or else slowly ablates from the inside when it misses)--but that seems inefficient.

Plus, Spock's coffin-torpedo glows when it's launched, even before it enters the Genesis planet's atmosphere, so it's not friction (or, obviously, a matter-antimatter reaction).

(Side note: The first time I saw TWOK, when the coffin curves around into the planet and the sun rises from the same point, I assumed for a few moments that that was the final, vaporizing flash of the coffin during reentry.)

It's a fast missile, it needs a powerful engine. And that glows brightly.

 

[FredH]

It's a fast missile, it needs a powerful engine. And that glows brightly.

From a viewer angle that starts off in the missile's Front/Port arc?

 

[Anji]

Wow, you guys have some interesting theories. I just thought the torpedoes glowed because it would draw the viewers' attention to it.