Heroes: "The Fifth Stage" 11/30/09 - Grading & Discussion

[The Habs Fan]

-The random Puppet Master cameo.

That was something I forgot to mention in my earlier post--Claire seemingly having no problem with the man who put her through a psychological torture by threatening the life of Meredith and Sandra is all buddy buddy with him. Even worse was Kring acknowledging this incongruence by actually writing that scene where Gretchen asks her about Doyle and she laughs it off-WTF It wasn't like Doyle was under some kind of mental control when he did all of those things to her and her loved ones so she could write it off that it really wasn't him.

I really can't buy that Kring is that bad of a writer. He must just be jerking us around by writing this show as poorly as he can just to stick it to all the critics. "You think this show's crap I'll show you crap" I wouldn't be surprised if in the next episode Claire performs in the carnival riding a motorcycle that jumps a shark

I also forgot about the stupid puppet master cameo where Claire is all budy-buddy with him. It doesn't make sense at all. But maybe that was the theme of this episode.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Or I could say how annoyed I am with Peter and his stupidity: Someone explain to me why he thinks Sylar is Nathan? It just doesn't make sense at all. He should be flipping out at his mom. And really, he should've have killed Sylar once and for all with the nail gun.

I think the writers re-evaluated their take on the nature of what "Nathan" was inside Sylar. Last year it seemed Nathan's "soul" died in his body and the copied memories of Nathan were all that was left and were suppressing the still intact Sylar memories.

Then it looked like as this season progressed the writers wanted it to be that somehow Nathan's "katra" was transferred into Sylar's body and Sylar's "katra" was transferred into Matt. I could see them doing this if they had the intention to bring back Nathan in the same fashion Spock was resurrected and not have the fans feel like NuNathan is just a copy. But if they kill off Nathan I honestly don't see the point.

I could mention how stupid it is to have the Haitian's ability turn on and off so that it suits the plot: Sylar landing on a car, then getting up.

I think the writers have an out here since we don't know the range of the Haitian's ability. Maybe the Haitian's ability didn't extend that many floors down from the roof.

 

[Peter the Younger]

I voted average. I liked the carnival stuff alright, even if it was your basic "mutants cannot co-exist with normal humans" stuff. Man, why of why did it take so long to give us a villain like Samuel?

The Petrelli-Sylar plot, however, was thoroughly annoying. First, Angela - in typical Heroes fashion - reverses her previous position to serve the needs to the plot (other shows do this, but seriously, on Heroes any character can reverse themselves and argue the opposite side at any given time. Drives me nuts.) Then nuNathan decides he's going to off himself without even once wondering if maybe he should make sure Sylar buys it permanently, too; so his final act demonstrates selfishness and incompetence, great.

The HRG scenes - oh yeah, forgot about them. Nuff said.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Then it looked like as this season progressed the writers wanted it to be that somehow Nathan's "katra" was transferred into Sylar's body and Sylar's "katra" was transferred into Matt. I could see them doing this if they had the intention to bring back Nathan in the same fashion Spock was resurrected and not have the fans feel like NuNathan is just a copy. But if they kill off Nathan I honestly don't see the point.

Yeah I agree with you 100%. What exactly has changed now that Nathan has "died" and Sylar is back with all his powers? Absolutely nothing. It was a huge waste of time to kill Nathan in the first place and change Sylar into Nathan. We have now been reset to the status quo. And really I don't understand what is going to keep Sylar from shapeshifting into Nathan other then Adrian Pasdar being off the show. Throwing a guy off a building does not kill his shapeshifting ability.

 

[The Habs Fan]

I could mention how stupid it is to have the Haitian's ability turn on and off so that it suits the plot: Sylar landing on a car, then getting up.

I think the writers have an out here since we don't know the range of the Haitian's ability. Maybe the Haitian's ability didn't extend that many floors down from the roof.

So when the big black lady was lifting Peter up by the neck then throwing him against the wall was out of range as well?

 

[Peter the Younger]

I think the writers re-evaluated their take on the nature of what "Nathan" was inside Sylar. Last year it seemed Nathan's "soul" died in his body and the copied memories of Nathan were all that was left and were suppressing the still intact Sylar memories.

Then it looked like as this season progressed the writers wanted it to be that somehow Nathan's "katra" was transferred into Sylar's body and Sylar's "katra" was transferred into Matt. I could see them doing this if they had the intention to bring back Nathan in the same fashion Spock was resurrected and not have the fans feel like NuNathan is just a copy. But if they kill off Nathan I honestly don't see the point.

I think the writers re-evaluate what nuNathan is every few episodes; or worse, that they are all writing whatever they want from ep to ep, and ignoring each other. Of course, you can only get away from that if the showrunner has lost control, but I don't find that too hard to believe.

I suppose the current idea is that, as nuNathan has "given up", his memories will fade into the background and disappear. That's pretty disappointing for fans of Nathan, who always hoped his better angels would win out. But at this point, it's really hard to care.

 

[Daneel]

Claire: "Oh, he kidnapped me once, and tried to get my mom to shoot me. I got over it."

Uh-huh.

Geez, this whole "Sylar is Nathan/Nathan is Sylar plot-line was rather wasted. A shame, but not surprising. At least Peter and "Nathan" got to say their goodbyes, even if it was rather ham-fisted and clichéd.

And that guy slashing Claire's face? That seemed rather implausible. I mean, yeah, he's obviously a loudmouth, a jerk, and a bit dim, but he'd have to be practically insane (or really drunk) to think that violently attacking a teenage girl was a good way to prove his point.

The rest of the episode... meh.

 

[Caligula]

That was total bullshit! I understand why Tracy has moved to the carnival. She's a perfect candidate. I even understand why Hiro is still there. He has a motive for playing along. What's Claire's excuse? Boredom? It's not lack of a family. She's got Noah and Peter. It's not friends, because she has or had Gretchen. So, what was it? I don't get it!

I mean, she DOES know this is the same guy that sent Becky to kill both Gretchen and Noah, does she not? The same guy who not five minutes after Gretchen left Claire "for good" confronted her and wouldn't shut the fuck up (same as he does every time he's been on camera)? She knows all this, right? ....RIGHT?! So why in the hell did she even go to the carnival, much less decide to abandon Gretchen and stay there after just a few hours of hanging around Samuel and his freaks? Never mind that Claire was getting cold feet until Gretchen talked her into entering the carnival. Now suddenly it's Claire who actually wants to stay after all that she knows about Samuel and after how little she has seen while there. At least Gretchen has some common freaking sense. No, I'm sorry... strike that. At least Gretchen was written consistently as a character.

PLEASE tell me there was something in the popcorn to make Claire turn that complete 180! Something that either only affects people with abilities or was only in Claire's popcorn box. Something that would at least give a half-assed explanation for this, the worst episode of Season 4!

 

[The Habs Fan]

Oooh, I just thought of another thing to complain about:

Samuel's new right hand man. The problem is he wasn't seen before this episode. If Samuel trusts him that much to basically name him second-in-command, how come we've had no mention of him before?

 

[startrekwatcher]

I could mention how stupid it is to have the Haitian's ability turn on and off so that it suits the plot: Sylar landing on a car, then getting up.

I think the writers have an out here since we don't know the range of the Haitian's ability. Maybe the Haitian's ability didn't extend that many floors down from the roof.

So when the big black lady was lifting Peter up by the neck then throwing him against the wall was out of range as well?

That doesn't bother me too much since Peter is new to the Haitian's ability and I don't believe the power-neutralizing ability is "on" all the time.

Then it looked like as this season progressed the writers wanted it to be that somehow Nathan's "katra" was transferred into Sylar's body and Sylar's "katra" was transferred into Matt. I could see them doing this if they had the intention to bring back Nathan in the same fashion Spock was resurrected and not have the fans feel like NuNathan is just a copy. But if they kill off Nathan I honestly don't see the point.

Yeah I agree with you 100%. What exactly has changed now that Nathan has "died" and Sylar is back with all his powers? Absolutely nothing. It was a huge waste of time to kill Nathan in the first place and change Sylar into Nathan. We have now been reset to the status quo. And really I don't understand what is going to keep Sylar from shapeshifting into Nathan other then Adrian Pasdar being off the show. Throwing a guy off a building does not kill his shapeshifting ability.

Yeah if you don't read spoilers or "outside" behind the scenes information and were just watching this event within the episode you wouldn't know that this was The Grand Death of a major character--you'd think he could be back down the road. I suspect many will be asking down the road where's Nathan? and saying, "you mean back in episode 12 that was how the writers resolved Nathan's arc?!?'.

 

[Mr Light]

So was this Pasdar's final episode then? Is Sylar all man from now on in? Christ they keep stringing along this carnivale storyline. I'm not looking forward to a whole 'nuther half season of Samuel doing nothing and Sylar wandering around un-killed. I gotta say this season is really starting to bore me. Is it just me or is there a lot less action than in last season? Is this a victim of the slashed budget they took to stay on the air?

 

[melancholymecha]

^oh slashed budget is part of it- did you notice that the big fight b/w Peter & Sylar was done without using powers? its sad.

I kinda liked Sythan's slow fall- at first I was like okaaay, overdoing it much? but I like how he slowly shifted back into a sneering Sylar. And Milo & Adrian were top notch in their scenes together.

Spoiler: about Pasdar

Id like to think Adrian's emotions about his firing/leaving may have come through a bit in his scenes about saying goodbye to Peter.

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

What was that clip at the end of Hiro, Mohinder, and Ando running through the woods? I don't remember anything about that from last week. Confused!

 

[startrekwatcher]

What was that clip at the end of Hiro, Mohinder, and Ando running through the woods? I don't remember anything about that from last week. Confused!

I think we are suppose to assume that when Hiro disappeared last week he grabbed Ando and then went and broke out Suresh from the asylum. I guess those of you who will watch the show come January will find out.

 

[DarthPipes]

The "heroes" on the run scene was from last season's fugitive story arc.

That was total bullshit! I understand why Tracy has moved to the carnival. She's a perfect candidate. I even understand why Hiro is still there. He has a motive for playing along. What's Claire's excuse? Boredom? It's not lack of a family. She's got Noah and Peter. It's not friends, because she has or had Gretchen. So, what was it? I don't get it!

Because the one character trait she's had for the past four seasons is to whine and moan about her life?

 

[Bacl]

It is amazing how out of control this show has gotten. It was so great in season 1, and had such amazing potential, and then...it just derailed.

Watching it now is like watching a train wreck: I am horrified by what I see, yet I cannot look away.

 

[startrekwatcher]

It is amazing how out of control this show has gotten. It was so great in season 1, and had such amazing potential, and then...it just derailed.

It really is astonishing how far the show has fallen when looking back at season one where the writers paid so much attention to the tiniest details and the cliffhangers were amazing and the twists were great and how organically everything came together as the season proceeded. The characters weren't deep but they were enjoyable enough to watch as they searched for answers and struggled individually with accepting their abilities.

Now it looks like they just don't care and want to rid themselves of writing on this show as soon as possible.

 

[Aragorn]

Claire going undercover at the carnival would make more sense if they were to actually develop her character. So that pretty much won't be where they're going with her.

 

[Samurai8472]

Will we finally get the big Peter and Sylar battle that's been promised since the first season?

The big battle between Sylar and Peter will be a game of checkers.

I thought it would be "Battleship"

Peter- Best out of five?

Nathan-Damn Right!

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Will we finally get the big Peter and Sylar battle that's been promised since the first season?

The big battle between Sylar and Peter will be a game of checkers.

I thought it would be "Battleship"

Peter- Best out of five?

Nathan-Damn Right!

Any reference to Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey is an instant win! But it was "best of seven."