The Constitution class ship in Iowa

[Jeri]

Not a coincidence; the Enterprise was an ordinary ship until she was married to an extraordinary captain.

Not true in this case...Timo Saloniemi

The technical prowess of the ship is not under discussion. She has no storied reputation until Kirk gives it to her, thus no coincidence that Kirk and she came together there. He would have given any ship built at Riverside the storied reputation. It just happened to be the Enterprise.

Posters are prejudiced by their knowledge of the later Enterprise to draw a conclusion of coincidence.

 

[Timo]

She is born with enough reputation that Uhura values her over every other ship in the entire fleet even before the maiden voyage, and Spock perfectly understands her sentiment. Two testimonies from two very different people confirm the same thing. Not every ship is likely to be born that way; indeed, very few would be. Hence, a coincidence, even if not a major one.

And the hero ship in the movie is unique - literally the only one of her kind in an onscreen fleet that features a dozen ships of four foreground designs that differ in details but share general looks, including engine shape, engine detailing, hull detailing, torpedo launcher detailing, and color, and in every one of these differ from NCC-1701. Every attempt is made to portray the hero ship as special from the very start, before people of any sort, heroic or otherwise, have made any impression through using her for good or evil.

Perhaps the very fact that Kirk ever made it to Starfleet was dependent on him growing up in a town that built the best and most impressive starships, including a shiny pathfinder for a glorious new era? Without this, the Starfleet folks would not have made pilgrimage to Riverside, Kirk wouldn't have gotten in trouble with them, and Pike would not have interfered. Thus, not a coincidence after all, but a prerequisite. Who knows, perhaps George and/or Winona Kirk lived there for the very same reason, to be close to cutting edge Starfleet facilities?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jeyl]

Star Trek is down to earth; it's our story, the story of earthlings in space in a conceivable time frame.

Yes, it is down to Earth. That doesn't mean it should be about Earth. Did the original Star Trek series ever put so much emphasis on their modern day Earth as much as this movie has? Heck no. Unless it dealt with the Earth of the past, Earth was just a mere mention.

That's why I wish they destroyed Earth instead of Vulcan in this new flick. The Trek franchise shouldn't make Earth the "center of the universe" where if it goes, Star Trek as we know it comes to an end. Every time we use an "Earth is in danger" plot line, it always brings us BACK to Earth rather than going out there where the heart and soul of Trek should be.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

Did anyone else play the USS Enterprise Starship Simulator on the three disc Blu-Ray, it has some facts in there such as the shipyard in Iowa is its own shipyard and this Enterprise was built there, so in other words Iowa shipyard is distinct and is not part of any other shipyard on Earth. This Enterprise was not credited in any way to the San Fransisco shipyard.

 

[Jeyl]

Did anyone else play the USS Enterprise Starship Simulator on the three disc Blu-Ray, it has some facts in there such as the shipyard in Iowa is its own shipyard and this Enterprise was built there, so in other words Iowa shipyard is distinct and is not part of any other shipyard on Earth. This Enterprise was not credited in any way to the San Fransisco shipyard.

Well, if you're going to take the BluRay's word for it, I guess that makes Countdown Canon.

 

[Sci]

Star Trek is down to earth; it's our story, the story of earthlings in space in a conceivable time frame.

Yes, it is down to Earth. That doesn't mean it should be about Earth. Did the original Star Trek series ever put so much emphasis on their modern day Earth as much as this movie has? Heck no.

True, but, there again, ST09 puts much less emphasis on Earth and its importance to the Federation than did Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Nemesis, or Star Trek: Voyager (which CONSTANTLY referred to the ship's "home" as being Earth, in spite of numerous crewmembers not being from Earth). ST09 makes it very clear that the attack upon Vulcan was as important and serious and horrifying as an attack on Earth -- whereas previous movies have pretty much made it seem like no other planet matters to the Federation than Earth. Heck, ST09 even makes it clear that the destruction of Earth is only one of many planetary genocides that need to be stopped, since Nero shares his plan to destroy every Federation planet.

 

[Jeri]

She is born with enough reputation that Uhura values her over every other ship in the entire fleet even before the maiden voyage, and Spock perfectly understands her sentiment. Two testimonies from two very different people confirm the same thing. Not every ship is likely to be born that way; indeed, very few would be. Hence, a coincidence, even if not a major one...

Not a coincidence. Without Kirk and under Pike and Spock, all her inborn reputation could get her was a trip to the Laurentian system for a confab with Starfleet and a singularity at the location where planet Earth should have been. Kirk is the crux.

Star Trek is down to earth; it's our story, the story of earthlings in space in a conceivable time frame.

Yes, it is down to Earth. That doesn't mean it should be about Earth. Did the original Star Trek series ever put so much emphasis on their modern day Earth as much as this movie has? Heck no. Unless it dealt with the Earth of the past, Earth was just a mere mention.

In "Who Mourns for Adonais," Kirk persuades Lieutenant Palamas to betray Apollo by appealing to her humanity as the only thing they truly had. TOS is human and earth based, even though they are in space. I suspect this movie, as the first of a trilogy, wanted to be literally and figuratively grounded for a new audience, before they venture out into new frontiers.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Star Trek is down to earth; it's our story, the story of earthlings in space in a conceivable time frame.

Yes, it is down to Earth. That doesn't mean it should be about Earth. Did the original Star Trek series ever put so much emphasis on their modern day Earth as much as this movie has? Heck no. Unless it dealt with the Earth of the past, Earth was just a mere mention.

That's why I wish they destroyed Earth instead of Vulcan in this new flick. The Trek franchise shouldn't make Earth the "center of the universe" where if it goes, Star Trek as we know it comes to an end. Every time we use an "Earth is in danger" plot line, it always brings us BACK to Earth rather than going out there where the heart and soul of Trek should be.

Seems to me the story they told/wanted to tell had to use Earth as one of its settings. Of course this movie also uses Vulcan and a couple of spaceships as settings too.

The original Star Trek mentioned Earth in almost very episode. In the beginning the Enterprise was an Earth ship going to Earth colonies. Quite a few aliens were influenced by Earth cultures (Trelane Ioatians, Zeons, Melcots,) So even away from Earth, Earth was still a factor.

I do agree Earth in danger has been over used in the films.

 

[Alrik]

Okay, 4 pages later. A couple of points:

*Starship built on land. Why not? Cruise ships and aircraft carriers are. We weren't shown the specifics, but perhaps like today's sea craft, the primary construction is done on land, and the fitting out gets done in space. Who knows? I don't see what the big deal is of building it on the ground. TOS set the precedent that Star Ships can opperate within the atmosphere. (See 'Tomorrow is Yesterday').

*We all know Enterprise 'is the Hero ship', but to follow Jeri's point, it didn't become that until Kirk made her that way. If it hadn't been for Kirk and his warning, Enterprise would have ended up as debris, just like the other ships over Vulcan. Yes Uhura demanded to be posted to Enterprise, but at that point in time, Enterprise was just the newest and most advanced ship put into service. Granted, it had the potential, but it took Kirk and Co. to make it special.

 

[BriGuy]

It takes much longer than four years to build a starship. And if anything, it would take longer to build one at that point in time than, say, in the TNG timeframe.

Think about it... when Kirk rolls up to look at it, it's obviously been under construction for quite some time. Exactly how long, who knows. I'm not sure how far away from completion it is. But it's finished and in space roughly three years later.

The construction could have started back when Kirk was a child.

 

[Timo]

Agreed; that removes much of the coincidence effect.

However, this doesn't:

Yes Uhura demanded to be posted to Enterprise, but at that point in time, Enterprise was just the newest and most advanced ship put into service.

Which means that it is a coincidence that Kirk enrolls in Starfleet at the very same town where the newest and most advanced ship is being built. The ship is unique; there can only be one "newest", and indeed we see nothing even remotely like the NCC-1701 elsewhere in the movie. Thus, Riverside is unique. And having the hero live in a unique location is something of a coincidence, even if the location holds unique qualities for several decades and not just for the duration of the movie's events.

But is it? Or are heroes made by having them live in unique locations at opportune times?

That Kirk ends up commanding the ship that was built in his hometown is a strange and intriguing development, but perhaps it is only to be expected. Perhaps the type of person who fights his way through an organization to get what he wants will want something that inspired him at his youth, and will settle for nothing less (or even for anything more, no matter how much better that would be than his early inspiration).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Red Ranger]

Is it nucanon that the nuEnterprise is still a Constitution-class starship? It would be cool if it was indeed established as Enterprise-class, as it should've been long ago! -- RR

 

[Jeri]

...If it hadn't been for Kirk and his warning, Enterprise would have ended up as debris, just like the other ships over Vulcan...

Upon their arrival at Vulcan, Nero would have still destroyed them if not for Spock's presence on the Enterprise. It was Kirk's determination to pursue Nero to Earth and destroy the red-matter device that saved them. To find a way when no one else thought it possible. To quote him elsewhere, "I want that third alternative!" And to quote Spock elsewhere, "His mind is very...dynamic."

 

[Alrik]

RR. This thread has made me wonder that as well. Did they forego the Constitution in this timeline? Was Enterprise the 'first'?

Timo. All good points, but is it coincidence or destiny?

 

[Alrik]

...If it hadn't been for Kirk and his warning, Enterprise would have ended up as debris, just like the other ships over Vulcan...

Upon their arrival at Vulcan, Nero would have still destroyed them if not for Spock's presence on the Enterprise. It was Kirk's determination to pursue Nero to Earth and destroy the red-matter device that saved them. To find a way when no one else thought it possible. To quote him elsewhere, "I want that third alternative!" And to quote Spock elsewhere, "His mind is very...dynamic."

Agreed that what came was what made Enterprise special. But look at it like this. If Kirk hadn't raised the alarm and gotten Pike to raise shields, Enterprise might have dropped right into the middle of the battle and Nero might not have taken time to note the registry and name before letting her have it.

 

[Jeri]

...Which means that it is a coincidence that Kirk enrolls in Starfleet at the very same town where the newest and most advanced ship is being built...

Not a coincidence. Kirk would have used whatever ship at hand to do his job. In TOS, when Kirk was removed from his command and someone else put in charge of the Enterprise, things went ill for her. On one of those occasions, Kirk even used a dead ship to do his job. The ship is a perk, not the point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think its still a Connie. The Constitution was probably the flagship for the fleet in the Laurentan System.

 

[Jeri]

Agreed that what came was what made Enterprise special. But look at it like this. If Kirk hadn't raised the alarm and gotten Pike to raise shields, Enterprise might have dropped right into the middle of the battle and Nero might not have taken time to note the registry and name before letting her have it.

That is a pretty good point. I like it.

 

[Timo]

The movie gives no class name for NCC-1701, although an off-focus dedication plaque says "STARSHIP CLASS" just as the plaque on the TOS ship did.

Not a coincidence. Kirk would have used whatever ship at hand to do his job.

But what Kirk uses or doesn't use is irrelevant to the original argument. What is already a coincidence on its own right is that Kirk lives and enrolls in the town where the unique Enterprise is being built. It would remain an intriguing coincidence even if Kirk and the Enterprise never met again.

That's a smaller issue than Kirk getting the command of the ship that was built in his hometown, and that one isn't necessarily a coincidence at all, just like you say. But a truly generic situation would have Kirk growing up in the shadow of some other ship than Starfleet's best and whitest. Unless we postulate that Kirk could only become a hero if inspired by Starfleet's best and whitest.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[OneBuckFilms]

RR. This thread has made me wonder that as well. Did they forego the Constitution in this timeline? Was Enterprise the 'first'?

Timo. All good points, but is it coincidence or destiny?

It is possible the Constitution was a test spaceframe, not intended to be commissioned. An NX-1700, that may be changed to NCC-1700 if commissioned after the technology tests were completed.

Think the Space Shuttle Enterprise.