Your Country's History

[Me-Ike]

Does it affect you?

Its good parts? The bad ones?

Do you feel anger or ashamed about what your country has done? Or maybe pride and joy? Do you only tend to think of the recent good/bad things it's responsible for since everything else is too long ago?

Or do you think that it doesn't affect you at all, that you as a person have nothing to do with what your country did/didn't do?

These questions repeatedly come up for me whenever I watch a movie dealing with my country's past, not only regarding my own feelings but other's as well. But I would like to hear your opinion before I add my two cents.

 

[SmoothieX]

Out of curiousity, where are you from?

It doesn't bother me or make me feel proud personally, because I had nothing to do with it. I didn't fight off the British at Lexington and Concord, nor did I round up the Indians onto reservations.

I think it's important to be aware of, because as a member of a given country, its past impacts how others will view you. But I don't feel much on a personal level.

 

[Mark de Vries]

I can't say my country's history really affects me that much. I'm from the Netherlands, and recent Dutch history has been somewhat lacking in big events. There aren't really any events or actions that make me feel good or bad or anything.

 

[Me-Ike]

I'm from Germany.

I agree with you on an intellectual level that, for me, the feelings regarding past deeds should hardly have an emotional effect due to a lack of personal involvement. But this:

But I don't feel much on a personal level.

I can't shake.

I can't say my country's history really affects me that much. I'm from the Netherlands, and recent Dutch history has been somewhat lacking in big events. There aren't really any events or actions that make me feel good or bad or anything.

The invention of Vla?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Well, surely it depends upon the degree to which you integrate your sense of self with a sense of national identity. If you buy into the ideologies and philosophies and social norms of your nation (or at least its dominant culture), then what "the country" does/did will affect you personally a lot more, if not, less so.

As for me, it's not the past in itself that bothers me but the present and how people today relate to the past. What people did years ago matters little, it's what they learn from it. I'm critical of my country's history (and pretty much every other country's- yes, yours too, whoever you are) but not because of a sense of superiority over our ancestors (I find people far, far too quick to condemn their ancestors). I'm condemning ideologies, actions and philosophies not people or nations. But, the real point is that a society has to acknowledge and learn from the past. I don't think my country or any others I know have actually done this, and this is what annoys me.

 

[O'Dib]

Serbia's history affected my life in a very real way, in that it was bombed in '99, so my family emigrated. As for the other events of recent history, such as the various atrocities my country's committed during the 90s, no, I don't feel responsible or ashamed for them. I disagree with them, and empathize with those who've suffered, but I don't carry national guilt for them, as I wasn't involved.

I do feel pride for Serbia's history as a whole. Its endurance throughout incredible hardships. Its almost stupid, yet so constant as to be admirable, spiteful resistance to rule by vastly more powerful nations, that got it in trouble, and almost brought about its non-existence, on numerous occasions over the centuries.

EDIT: another aspect that does affect me personaly is the deep seated Orthodoxy, which was historically vital to preserving a national identity, to the point that some extremists don't consider you a Serb if you're of a different religion. My family being protestant, I've faced some of this persecution in my own country.

 

[Jadzia]

My country is not an extension of me, but it is something I play a small role in defining.

Beyond one's family, one's country is the next greatest social alliance, where together, we provide food and shelter for one another. We try to protect one another from harm and malice and exploitation. We build a culture with traditions, and things of entertainment to give meaning and pleasure to our lives. And systems of rules to try and moderate how we impact one another's lives.

My country's history represents millennia of experiences, achievements, and strivings for the people who have lived on this small island. This history is important for trying to understand why we do what we do; live the way we live; and have the laws we have. Without respect for that history, we are naive, with a conflicting set of malformed "I know best" attitudes, and correspondingly aggressive ideals that invoke short sighted changes.

A country should represent a force of stability to those who belong to it. It should be seen as an equilibrium of social and logistical successes, worthy of being preserved and defended, but fragile enough to warrant making changes cautiously and infrequently.

Stability is something to be proud of helping to maintain.

 

[judge alba]

cant say my countries history affects me at all. I'm not proud of it or ashamed of it far as I'm concerned it's what it's like here and now (which aint a lot)

 

[RandyS]

Nope. I'm not affected by my country's hypocrisy.

Although it DID teach me what liars people can be.

 

[Mark de Vries]

The invention of Vla?

OKay, I take back all I said above.

 

[Shaytan]

It's strange that you ask the question when I'm reading a book on the method of the historian which begin with the important place my countrymen (myself included) give to history. What happened in the past has built today's society.

Does it affect you?

Nor exactly personnally because I'm well aware that I'm not directly responsible of it
Even if I'm the result and sometimes the victim of our history.

Its good parts? The bad ones?

Both !

Do you feel anger or ashamed about what your country has done? Or maybe pride and joy?

I can only be ashamed or proud of things I'm directly responsible for.

Do you only tend to think of the recent good/bad things it's responsible for since everything else is too long ago?

No, for example I'm perfectly aware that what keep this country alive despite wars and revolutions was the institution of a strong state somewhere during the middle ages
History is linear, it's not a succession of events without links.

It's difficult to ignore the past in this country when it's absolutely everywhere. Even when you dig a hole in you garden, you may find "something"

 

[Thor Damar]

Excellent, a history thread!

For me my Countries history doesn't always effect me personally but I'm very much aware of it.

For example I'm very much opposed to Imperialism (as are a lot of people) and my great grandfather fought against my Nations empire but I can understand the affect that said Empire has had on my country.

As for the good and bad parts? Well, history is often first tragedy and then farce so one always has to take into account all the aspects of the societal makeup of a country and to try and understand them.
Like others have said, I'll not feel guilt for the crimes and misdemeanors of others (and I say this as a subject of the nation that invented the concentration camps).

Rather than a source of pride or shame I see my countries long and checkered history as a source of satire, which is something that we're quite good at IMO.

Aside from all that I once again find myself in agreement with Deranged Nasat.

 

[WillsBabe]

I suppose that my country's history does affect me. I think this had increased as I have become older. When I was younger I didn't really think about my country or its history. These days there are things I'm proud of, and things it's done that I'm saddened by.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I'm Italian, and I can definitively say that it affects me very much.

The good, the bad, the wonderful, the dreadful. I feel ashamed thinking about some things my people did in the past, and elated thinking about the common heritage I share. I'm not nationalist, far from it, and I feel no sense of pride or superiority about my country: what I feel for my country is not different from what I feel for my family: I can grow to hate them, but I just can't stop loving them.

As Deranged Nasat said, how much your country's history affects you depends upon the degree to which you integrate your national identity in your personal identity, and for me it's very true. I don't even think particularly well of my country. But even the parts of my culture and society that I vehemently oppose, they are still part of me. I can try and escape it, but the very fact that I need to do that is proof that I'm still defined by the cultural frame of mind that was instilled in me from the day I was born.

 

[Me-Ike]

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I love reading these.
I agree with Deranged Nasat that these questions depend on your personal degree of integration with your country, which is exactly why I asked them. I wanted to hear different personal approaches.

The thing for me is that whenever I watch a movie/documentry/see pictures dealing with the atrocities committed by Germany during WWII, I not only feel shame but also guilt. You know, during the day I don't feel personally responsible. I'd say I'm pretty close to what iguana tonante said: a love-hate relationship. Appreciating the good, being aware of the bad. Not too keen on defining myself over where I happened to be born.
But whenever I see the things that have been done I cannot help but to strongly feel the need of personally apologizing.

Now, I know that I'm not personally responsible and I'm not looking for "Oh, but it wasn't you"s. But these thoughts also always make me wonder whether people have a similar strong feelings.

On a side note, I once visited the UN and took the tour. Before we started, the tour guide asked us where we were from. I was the only German. We then started the tour and soon came upon a WWII exhibit. I saw it and grew quite ashamed. The tour guide then took us to the next room without ever mentioning this exhibit. I wonder whether that's why he asked us our nationalities. Anyway, it brought again forth how peculiar I sometimes feel among people of other nationalities.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

The thing for me is that whenever I watch a movie/documentry/see pictures dealing with the atrocities committed by Germany during WWII, I not only feel shame but also guilt. You know, during the day I don't feel personally responsible. I'd say I'm pretty close to what iguana tonante said: a love-hate relationship. Appreciating the good, being aware of the bad. Not too keen on defining myself over where I happened to be born.
But whenever I see the things that have been done I cannot help but to strongly feel the need of personally apologizing.

Now, I know that I'm not responsible. But these thoughts also always make me wonder whether people have a similar strong feelings.

On a side note, I once visited the UN and took the tour. Before we started, the tour guide asked us where we were from. I was the only German. We then started the tour and soon came upon a WWII exhibit. I saw it and grew quite ashamed. The tour guide then took us to the next room without ever mentioning this exhibit. I wonder whether that's why he asked us our nationalities. Anyway, it brought again forth how peculiar I sometimes feel among people of other nationalities.

Well, please forgive me if this comes across as insensitive, my friend, but show me a nation which hasn't engaged in large scale slaughter and destruction at one point, or isn't built upon the shattered remains of some earlier civilization it wiped out or subjugated. Indeed, many people of all nationalities still hold the same ideologies that were used to justify such actions. If we're going to feel shame because our ancestors behaved in a manner we disapprove of, we'd all have to be condemning our mutual shared ancestor Caveman Ug for that time he knocked Caveman Thag over the head with a boulder. I personally think it's really moving how sensitive you are to the suffering of people and the way in which certain ideologies can be twisted to cause great harm, but feeling guilt because people affiliated with your nation engaged in these acts isn't really fair on yourself or your fellow Germans; Germany wasn't the first nation to be led by a genocidal warlord trying to conquer the known world; far far from it! Hey, I'm British. We did conquer much of the world and engage in mass atrocities, before Germany ever tried. Being German shouldn't mean anything particularly problematic.

Again, it speaks so highly of you that you are sensitive to these issues, but please don't feel shame over it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, please forgive me if this comes across as insensitive, my friend, but show me a nation which hasn't engaged in large scale slaughter and destruction at one point, or isn't built upon the shattered remains of some earlier civilization it wiped out or subjugated. Indeed, many people of all nationalities still hold the same ideologies that were used to justify such actions. If we're going to feel shame because our ancestors behaved in a manner we disapprove of, we'd all have to be condemning our mutual shared ancestor Caveman Ug for that time he knocked Caveman Thag over the head with a boulder. I personally think it's really moving how sensitive you are to the suffering of people and the way in which certain ideologies can be twisted to cause great harm, but feeling guilt because people affiliated with your nation engaged in these acts isn't really fair on yourself or your fellow Germans; Germany wasn't the first nation to be led by a genocidal warlord trying to conquer the known world; far far from it! Hey, I'm British. We did conquer much of the world and engage in mass atrocities, before Germany ever tried. Being German shouldn't mean anything particularly problematic.

Again, it speaks so highly of you that you are sensitive to these issues, but please don't feel shame over it.

This.

Me? I'm proud to be an American. I don't care if people think I'm an "imperialist" (God, how I hate the absolute and total overuse of that word, it's become such a cliché ), it's the truth. Sure, some times my country has done things that aren't so good, but as you pointed out, so has pretty much every other country on Earth.

I do not choose to ignore the good and focus solely on the evil. That way lies madness.

 

[Kestra]

Or do you think that it doesn't affect you at all, that you as a person have nothing to do with what your country did/didn't do?

I wouldn't say that I have nothing to do with my country or its past, but I certainly feel disconnected from it to a high degree. Ultimately I feel connected to both America's history and India's history. I'm not responsible for any of it, but I am a product of both.

 

[Me-Ike]

Well, please forgive me if this comes across as insensitive, my friend, but show me a nation which hasn't engaged in large scale slaughter and destruction at one point, or isn't built upon the shattered remains of some earlier civilization it wiped out or subjugated. Indeed, many people of all nationalities still hold the same ideologies that were used to justify such actions. If we're going to feel shame because our ancestors behaved in a manner we disapprove of, we'd all have to be condemning our mutual shared ancestor Caveman Ug for that time he knocked Caveman Thag over the head with a boulder. I personally think it's really moving how sensitive you are to the suffering of people and the way in which certain ideologies can be twisted to cause great harm, but feeling guilt because people affiliated with your nation engaged in these acts isn't really fair on yourself or your fellow Germans; Germany wasn't the first nation to be led by a genocidal warlord trying to conquer the known world; far far from it! Hey, I'm British. We did conquer much of the world and engage in mass atrocities, before Germany ever tried. Being German shouldn't mean anything particularly problematic.

Again, it speaks so highly of you that you are sensitive to these issues, but please don't feel shame over it.

You are perfectly right, of course (About nearly every country being responsible for certain crimes, I mean. The jury is still out on my sensitivity. )
I guess the high degree of my feeling involved stems partly from WWII having happened relatively recently, the great scale loss and destruction, and its on-going representation in the media. It's always there.

But like I said, I am aware of the actual detachment between me and the country I live in. Still, your comment is appreciated.

I wouldn't say that I have nothing to do with my country or its past, but I certainly feel disconnected from it to a high degree. Ultimately I feel connected to both America's history and India's history. I'm not responsible for any of it, but I am a product of both.

That's interesting. Do you feel somehow more connected to one country than the other or would you say equally?

I am half Dutch, for example, but apart from having some deeper knowledge about the country and a certain fondness I hardly feel connected to the Netherlands at all. I have to admit to not speaking the language, though, maybe that's part of it.

Edit:

The invention of Vla?

OKay, I take back all I said above.

You better! I didn't even mention poffertjes yet!

 

[Canadave]

Well, I'm a Canadian, and fairly proud of my country, but we do have a fairly slight history compared to many countries. I mean, we're only 142 years old, with a recorded history stretching back only a couple of centuries before that.

That said, there are many things which I do feel both proud of an ashamed of.

For example, we tamed a giant wilderness, but did so at the expense of most of the existing Native cultures. We fought admirably in both world wars, but at home, we interned Japanese-Canadians in WW2 and many others in WW1. We're a incredibly multicultural country, but up until the 1970s, we treated new immigrants horribly.

It really goes both ways, I guess. It's important to remember the things we've done wrong, though, so we don't do them again.