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Rap Music Should Be Included In Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

Corwwyn said:
Non-sequitur.

I'm sure some people are as you say, but what does that have to do with the post you quoted?

Are you perhaps suggesting that rap (which btw I do not like) and hip hop (some of which btw I quite like) would only be excluded from the RnR HoF due to African-American bigotry rather than because the rap and hip hop artists/groups don't do any RnR songs?

In case that is what you are suggesting, please note:

(not all-inclusive) INDUCTEES:
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The non sequiter is you listing black inductees to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame when nobody in this thread has suggested the Hall of Fame is racist. They inducted Grandmaster Flash, so obviously they don't share the very narrow views about music expressed by many in this thread.

I happen to think cheesy hair metal like Quiet Riot, Poison, Twisted Sister etc. is some of the dumbest, shittiest music ever recorded. But I'm not going to argue that it's not actually music. Or to take an example from earlier in the thread, Twilight may suck, but no sensible person would deny it's actually a book.
 
Whoa .... Corwwyn's comment seems to be in reply to that by Dusty Ayers, who said:
Dusty Ayres said:
Level 2 Diagnostic said:
Frankly, I can't believe it's 2009 and people are still debating whether or not rap and hip hop are valid forms of musical self expression. If this were 1989, I could maybe understand it, but rap has only been influential in the world of pop music for what, thirty years now?
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People are just as bigoted towards Afro-Americans as they used to be years ago, and that extends to music, too.
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Dusty's comment does bring race into the discussion, to which Corwwyn replies with an example he feels shows it isn't so pervasive. That example happens to include R-n-R HOF inductees, the original topic of discussion. It seems relevant to me, because I think that has been broached in this thread - racial motivations for who does and does not belong in the R-n-R HOF.

Apologies if I misconstrued your statement, Level-2.
 
byron lomax said:
I dunno, but I suspect race is a part of why some people so vehemently dislike rap music, to the point that they have to loudly proclaim that they dislike it rather than just not listening to it.
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With all due respect to your opinion, I think that's rubbish. I've never been a fan of rap on the basis of how the genre sounds, and I suspect that applies to the majority of people who feel the same. As for "just not listening to it", since it has constant airplay over radio and on TV and much more exposure in the media than most other genres, we don't always have much of a choice.
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Try this bit again: some people so vehemently dislike rap music, to the point that they have to loudly proclaim that they dislike it rather than just not listening to it.

I don't go around telling all and sundry that I hate this or that kind of music and it's worthless and not real music. It's not a crusade for me. And I have to listen to a lot of shitty music I don't like, too.

I think some older people are so aggressively opposed to it on the basis that it doesn't have real instrumentation, and other factors that really set it apart from genres they grew up with and recognise as music.
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How much older? I'm 46. Rap's been around since I was a teenager.

Second point: some rap does, in fact, have real instrumentation. Some other forms of music do just fine without real instruments, too. Lots of pop music, for example, and electronic music.
 
How much older? I'm 46. Rap's been around since I was a teenager.

Second point: some rap does, in fact, have real instrumentation. Some other forms of music do just fine without real instruments, too. Lots of pop music, for example, and electronic music.
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I would say about 35 and up; rap may have been around since the beginning of the 80s, but to lots of people it didn't become "visible" until the end of the 80s.

Those people usually hate modern pop and electronic music too. Some rap does have instrumentation, but most of it doesn't, and it's not a fundamental componant of the genre.
 
byron lomax said:
I think some older people are so aggressively opposed to it on the basis that it doesn't have real instrumentation, and other factors that really set it apart from genres they grew up with and recognise as music.
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Very much on target :techman:

To me it's bad poetry set to the percussion of hammers pounding inside my head.
 
Nerys Myk said:
Warped9 said:
byron lomax said:
I think some older people are so aggressively opposed to it on the basis that it doesn't have real instrumentation, and other factors that really set it apart from genres they grew up with and recognise as music.
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Very much on target :techman:

To me it's bad poetry set to the percussion of hammers pounding inside my head.
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So it is Rock and Roll, then? ;)
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At least rock often has a discernible melody.
 
Level 2 Diagnostic said:
zakkrusz said:
You don't slap a label that says "milk" on a gallon of orange juice, you don't put pornography in the childrens' movie section, similarly something that's not rock and in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, shouldn't be there, in my opinion. :confused:
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In other words, you're equating inducting rap artists into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with showing porn to kids.
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Yes, it's called an analogy and is a perfectly acceptable way of proving a point. The point of the analogies, since you don't seem to have grasped it, is that labeling things something which they aren't is dumb and misleading. In fact, in some cases it's a crime.

Anyway, I don't have anything against rap music, but I don't find it all that appealing as a form of music either. I listen to some, as well as a variety of other music genres, but I'm primarily a rock, metal and techno guy.
 
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Warped9 said:
Nerys Myk said:
Warped9 said:
Very much on target :techman:

To me it's bad poetry set to the percussion of hammers pounding inside my head.
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So it is Rock and Roll, then? ;)
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At least rock often has a discernible melody.
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Rock and Roll is an attitude.

Its about first, love, young love and lost loves.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNsmrd-aR1c[/yt]

It's about fast cars and havin fun
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKmaq-v1OKM[/yt]

Its about parents that don't understand
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acbkMGEjzrE[/yt]

Its about the right to party
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NdAUnnU9Ac[/yt]

It's about fighting the law
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16u0wwCfoJ4[/yt]

Its about getting out of school
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuXz-Vbkg8A[/yt]

Its about hoping to die before you get old
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uswXI4fDYrM[/yt]

Its about being the king of rock
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fumgOJLFSHw[/yt]
 
Neroon said:
Dusty's comment does bring race into the discussion, to which Corwwyn replies with an example he feels shows it isn't so pervasive. That example happens to include R-n-R HOF inductees, the original topic of discussion. It seems relevant to me, because I think that has been broached in this thread - racial motivations for who does and does not belong in the R-n-R HOF.

Apologies if I misconstrued your statement, Level-2.
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My only point was that Corwwyn listing black Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees doesn't make any sense in the context of this discussion. If he's trying to prove that the Hall of Fame has no racial bias against rap artists, well, we know that already, because they've inducted rap artists in the past.

And if he's trying to say the mainstream public has no racial bias against rap music, well, we kind of knew that, too. The mainstream music buying public seems to have happily accepted rap as a valid genre of music. It's only a small, vocal minority that's intent on "proving" that rap is not actually music.

Either way, Corwwyn's post was a non sequitur in this conversation, IMHO.
 
zakkrusz said:
Yes, it's called an analogy and is a perfectly acceptable way of proving a point. The point of the analogies, since you don't seem to have grasped it, is that labeling things something which they aren't is dumb and misleading. In fact, in some cases it's a crime.
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I know what an "analogy" is, and "inducting rap artists into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is like showing porn to kids" is a terrible one.
 
Rap is not Rock... Rap is Rap and to some its cRap. Fuckin' rappers do not belong in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. They are not Rock N Roll. Why not induct Gustav Mahler, or Leon Redbone or Yanni into the fuckin' ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME?! FUCKWADS.

JUST SAY NO.
 
Level 2 Diagnostic said:
Neroon said:
Dusty's comment does bring race into the discussion, to which Corwwyn replies with an example he feels shows it isn't so pervasive. That example happens to include R-n-R HOF inductees, the original topic of discussion. It seems relevant to me, because I think that has been broached in this thread - racial motivations for who does and does not belong in the R-n-R HOF.

Apologies if I misconstrued your statement, Level-2.
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My only point was that Corwwyn listing black Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees doesn't make any sense in the context of this discussion. If he's trying to prove that the Hall of Fame has no racial bias against rap artists, well, we know that already, because they've inducted rap artists in the past.

And if he's trying to say the mainstream public has no racial bias against rap music, well, we kind of knew that, too. The mainstream music buying public seems to have happily accepted rap as a valid genre of music. It's only a small, vocal minority that's intent on "proving" that rap is not actually music.

Either way, Corwwyn's post was a non sequitur in this conversation, IMHO.
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I guess you really didn't read my post. Maybe you think I was responding to your comment. I wasn't. I presented the list in response to Dusty's response to your comment.

My point is that the RnR HoF does not appear to have any racial bigotry to date.

FWIW, I was not trying to prove that the RnR HoF has no racial bias against RAP artists, but simply demonstrating that, contrary to a possible meaning in Dusty's comment, the RnR HoF has no racial bias, because they have included many excellent African-American Rock and Roll artists (from day 1).

As for why the RnR HoF has of late included some RAP artists, that's baffling. Do they do any songs which could be considered (even at a stretch) RnR? On the other hand, they've included at least one jazz artist, and several (arguably only pop) artists...maybe the HoF should be renamed to the Popular Non-Instrumental Music Hall of Fame?
 
Rock n Roll is a seperate genre from Rap. I mean, I would consider Blues, Funk, maybe even jazz to be semi-related to Rock. Its the rock n roll roots, but Rap is its own animal.
 
^ The second sentence of that post has some truth. The first most certainly does not, and is a ludicrous statement. :lol:
 
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