Rap Music Should Be Included In Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

[Nerys Myk]

I didn't really have to, since I've been there, and seen it's incomprehensibility (but I skimmed through the whole thread). Doesn't mean it should. I just object to it from a standpoint of logic though. It doesn't make sense.

Maybe they just have a broader and more inclusive definition of rock and roll. Speaking of which:

Def Leppard
Kiss
Led Zeppelin
Twisted Sister
Billy Idol
Joan Jett
Pat Benatar
Heart
Bon Jovi
Cheap Trick
George Thorogood
Meatloaf
Guns n Roses
Quiet Riot
Poison
Judas Priest

That's a really narrow and restrictive list. There are a few artists I like in there, but it really doesn't overlap much with any list of great rock and roll I'd put together.

Bear in mind that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a commercial enterprise. It's supposed to attract crowds to show up and visit the museum. If it takes the narrowest, most conventional definition of rock and roll, it's going to appeal to a smaller percentage of the population.

Those bands are the very definition of Rock and Roll. Or the term Classic Rock. If they wanted to broaden their horizons, why not add Green Day, Creed, or Collective Soul. There are other ways of updating the Hall of Fame without drastically changing it.

Then start a Rock (no roll) Hall of Fame.


When I hear the term "Rock and Roll", I don't think of Billy Joel or Pat Benatar. Or Poison and Quiet Riot for that matter. My mind tends to recall Elvis or Little Richard. But they and their contempories were inducted in the first few rounds. Not a good way to created a buzz every year.

Have any of those bands (in bold) been around long enough to get in? Has it been 25 years since their first records came out?

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Good God... Poison, Def Leppard, Quiet Riot, Pat Benatar, Bon Jovi, Billy Idol, Twisted Sister? In the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? You'd be lucky to find anyone who knows more than 1 or 2 Quiet Riot songs.

I would guess the Hall of Fame defines rock and roll as more of a spirit than any particular sound. "Rock and roll" is all about rebelling against authority and conformity, introducing new sounds and new ideas into pop music, having some influence on society, and inspiring other artists. From that perspective, NWA and Public Enemy are 1000 times more rock and roll than the guys who wrote "Pour Some Sugar on Me".

 

[Steve Roby]

From that perspective, NWA and Public Enemy are 1000 times more rock and roll than the guys who wrote "Pour Some Sugar on Me".

Yep.

And suddenly I feel like listening to Mos Def's "Rock and Roll," though I've got room in my collection for both Nina Simone and the Rolling Stones, and Elvis, for that matter.

If rock and roll really is limited to stuff like Bon Jovi and Poison, I'll have to agree with Schoolly D.

 

[exodus]

I didn't really have to, since I've been there, and seen it's incomprehensibility (but I skimmed through the whole thread). Doesn't mean it should. I just object to it from a standpoint of logic though. It doesn't make sense.

Maybe they just have a broader and more inclusive definition of rock and roll. Speaking of which:

Def Leppard
Kiss
Led Zeppelin
Twisted Sister
Billy Idol
Joan Jett
Pat Benatar
Heart
Bon Jovi
Cheap Trick
George Thorogood
Meatloaf
Guns n Roses
Quiet Riot
Poison
Judas Priest

That's a really narrow and restrictive list. There are a few artists I like in there, but it really doesn't overlap much with any list of great rock and roll I'd put together.

Bear in mind that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a commercial enterprise. It's supposed to attract crowds to show up and visit the museum. If it takes the narrowest, most conventional definition of rock and roll, it's going to appeal to a smaller percentage of the population.

Those bands are the very definition of Rock and Roll. Or the term Classic Rock. If they wanted to broaden their horizons, why not add Green Day, Creed, or Collective Soul. There are other ways of updating the Hall of Fame without drastically changing it.

They don't put just anybody into the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame just because they're rock. The inducties have to fit a certain criteria to be inducted. One of the reasons Grandmaster Flash & Run DMC are in there is for introducing the world to a new form of music. Billy Idol, Creed, Joan Jett, Heart can't hold a candle to the multi million(or is it billion?) dollar success that was Michael Jackson. He was a icon by the time he was 9. The only one who matches that is Stevie Wonder.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Bottom line:

if other genres of music regularly make it into the 'Rock and Roll Hall of Fame', then Rap should too.

Personally, i'd say keep out everything that's not 'Rock and Roll' out... keep Rap out, kick out any other genres, country, whatever...

But in either case it should be consistent.

 

[exodus]

I think the bottom line should be: music crosses boundries.

It doesn't matter if you're Rock, Rap, Country, R&B or Jazz.
It all stands side by side and transends the labels put on it to where it all should be equal.

I'm glad those in charge of the Hall of Fame understand that, even when we fail too.

 

[Warped9]

Rock hall of fame?

Rap music should be seared from existence and hope that its kind is never heard again. I cannot stand this stuff in the least.

And I always spell rap with a silent c.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thumbs up.

There's a lot of music in this world that I can't stand. You know what I do about it? I don't listen to it.

Sure, I could tell the world that I can't stand, I dunno, Billy Joel, to pick a random example... but the world doesn't really care, and hell, neither do I. Not worth the effort.

I have my theory about why some people feel the need to stand up and be counted as enemies of the evil rap music. But this is the wrong place for that discussion.

It's easy to say just don't listen to it. And you can do that in your own home or car or on your own iPod. But when you're subjected to it in so many other places you can't just not listen to it.

The thing about music is that just because someone likes something they can't seem to grasp that others don't share their enthusiasm. That's why I usually keep my own musical tastes to myself because I don't need the criticism and I'm trying to be considerate of others. Of course this point goes beyond just rap music. I can't stand music being played overly loud, rap or not.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Never been a fan of those who like to "share" their music with others. But those days seem to be waning since the coming of the ipod. No more stereos, boom boxes and car radios blasting at top volume for everyone to "enjoy". Though I am reminded of the many times my dad would complain about the music playing on my stereo. The phrase "turn that racket down!!!!" comes to mind.

Just let me hear some of that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

I have no kick against modern jazz
Unless they try to play it too darn fast
And change the beauty of the melody
Until it sounds just like a symphony
That's why I go for that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

I took my loved one over 'cross the tracks
So she could her my man a - whalin' sax
I must admit they have a rockin' band
Man they were goin' like a hurricane
That's why I go for that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

Way down South they gave a jubilee
Them country folks they had a jamboree
They're drinkin' home - brew from a wooden cup
The folks dancin' got all shook up
And started playin' that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

Don't care to hear 'em play the tango
I'm in no mood to dig a mambo
It's way too early for the congo
So keep a - rockin' that piano
So I can hear some of that rock'n'roll music
any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

 

[Warped9]

Never been a fan of those who like to "share" their music with others. But those days seem to be waning since the coming of the ipod. No more stereos, boom boxes and car radios blasting at top volume for everyone to "enjoy". Though I am reminded of the many times my dad would complain about the music playing on my stereo. The phrase "turn that racket down!!!!" comes to mind.

Last week we're working at getting our new store ready for opening when the young'uns get the idea to play some music. It wasn't enough to play their music just loud enough for them to hear it. No, they had to crank it so everyone could "enjoy" it no matter where they were. I'm sure it never occurred to them that others might not share their musical tastes. And I'm sure they were also blind to the pained expressions on so many others' faces from being subjected to the loud "noise."

 

[Steve Roby]

People have been playing their music too damn loud as long as I can remember. Nothing new about it.

 

[Pingfah]

Never been a fan of those who like to "share" their music with others. But those days seem to be waning since the coming of the ipod. No more stereos, boom boxes and car radios blasting at top volume for everyone to "enjoy".

In my experience it has got worse. I am only 33, but I don't remember other kids blasting their stereos out on the train when I was a teenager, and I routinely have to tell some little shitheads to shut it when I go on the train to London from where I live.

Or maybe that's just me not remembering being a little shithead when I was a kid. Who can tell.

 

[Steve Roby]

In my experience it has got worse. I am only 33, but I don't remember other kids blasting their stereos out on the train when I was a teenager, and I routinely have to tell some little shitheads to shut it when I go on the train to London from where I live.

Ever seen Star Trek IV?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Never been a fan of those who like to "share" their music with others. But those days seem to be waning since the coming of the ipod. No more stereos, boom boxes and car radios blasting at top volume for everyone to "enjoy".

In my experience it has got worse. I am only 33, but I don't remember other kids blasting their stereos out on the train when I was a teenager, and I routinely have to tell some little shitheads to shut it when I go on the train to London from where I live.

Or maybe that's just me not remembering being a little shithead when I was a kid. Who can tell.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYU7LhaYYek[/yt]

 

[Pthalo BlueMoon]

Oh hell no.

 

[Corwwyn]

I mean, the friggin' Bee Gees are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Does anyone here really think the Bee Gees are a rock band? Even if you disregard the disco stuff? They didn't exactly rock out on "New York Mining Disaster 1941".

Neither did The Beatles in the songs "Yesterday," "In My Life" and dozens of others.

If you say the Bee Gees don't belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, then be prepared to argue that the Beatles and the Beach Boys don't either. Then you can get rid of Simon & Garfunkel and everybody else that purists deem to be "pop" and not "rock."

Your comment is senseless. Level 2 Diagnostic suggests that bands who arguably don't have any songs in their repertoire which could be considered rock and/or roll probably shouldn't be considered for the RnR HoF, and, for some baffling reason you think that therefore bands which do have rock songs in their repertoires but also have ballads (of all things) should be excluded? I mean really, wtf?

 

[Corwwyn]

Frankly, I can't believe it's 2009 and people are still debating whether or not rap and hip hop are valid forms of musical self expression. If this were 1989, I could maybe understand it, but rap has only been influential in the world of pop music for what, thirty years now?

People are just as bigoted towards Afro-Americans as they used to be years ago, and that extends to music, too.

Non-sequitur.

I'm sure some people are as you say, but what does that have to do with the post you quoted?

Are you perhaps suggesting that rap (which btw I do not like) and hip hop (some of which btw I quite like) would only be excluded from the RnR HoF due to African-American bigotry rather than because the rap and hip hop artists/groups don't do any RnR songs?

In case that is what you are suggesting, please note:

(not all-inclusive) INDUCTEES:
1986
Chuck Berry
James Brown
Ray Charles
Fats Domino
Little Richard

1987
The Coasters
Muddy Waters

1988
The Drifters

1989
Stevie Wonder

1990
The Platters
The Four Tops

1992
The Jimi Hendrix Experience

later:
The Jackson 5
Lloyd Price
Michael Jackson
Little Anthony and the Imperials

 

[Steve Roby]

I dunno, but I suspect race is a part of why some people so vehemently dislike rap music, to the point that they have to loudly proclaim that they dislike it rather than just not listening to it.

 

[byron lomax]

I dunno, but I suspect race is a part of why some people so vehemently dislike rap music, to the point that they have to loudly proclaim that they dislike it rather than just not listening to it.

With all due respect to your opinion, I think that's rubbish. I've never been a fan of rap on the basis of how the genre sounds, and I suspect that applies to the majority of people who feel the same. As for "just not listening to it", since it has constant airplay over radio and on TV and much more exposure in the media than most other genres, we don't always have much of a choice.

I think some older people are so aggressively opposed to it on the basis that it doesn't have real instrumentation, and other factors that really set it apart from genres they grew up with and recognise as music.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

I dunno, but I suspect race is a part of why some people so vehemently dislike rap music, to the point that they have to loudly proclaim that they dislike it rather than just not listening to it.

That's certainly the case sometimes, but not always. Sometimes the truth comes out when those people get really fed up with some song that's playing and blurt out something about "That damn jungle bunny music." They'll slip up and expose themselves sooner or later. A lot of racists came out of the closet when Obama was elected. I had a boss who was on the verge of tears on election day, and he muttered "I can't believe that nigger won." Those types of people make it harder for people who have legitimate gripes against Obama's policies to be taken seriously.

 

[exodus]

Never been a fan of those who like to "share" their music with others. But those days seem to be waning since the coming of the ipod. No more stereos, boom boxes and car radios blasting at top volume for everyone to "enjoy". Though I am reminded of the many times my dad would complain about the music playing on my stereo. The phrase "turn that racket down!!!!" comes to mind.

Just let me hear some of that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

I have no kick against modern jazz
Unless they try to play it too darn fast
And change the beauty of the melody
Until it sounds just like a symphony
That's why I go for that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

I took my loved one over 'cross the tracks
So she could her my man a - whalin' sax
I must admit they have a rockin' band
Man they were goin' like a hurricane
That's why I go for that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

Way down South they gave a jubilee
Them country folks they had a jamboree
They're drinkin' home - brew from a wooden cup
The folks dancin' got all shook up
And started playin' that rock'n'roll music
Any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

Don't care to hear 'em play the tango
I'm in no mood to dig a mambo
It's way too early for the congo
So keep a - rockin' that piano
So I can hear some of that rock'n'roll music
any old way you choose it
It's got a backbeat, you can't lose it
Any old time you use it
It's gotta be rock - roll music
If you wanna dance with me
If you wanna dance with me

I can top that.


"Everybody's talkin' about the new sound is funny but it's still Rock n' Roll too me!"
-Billy Joel.