How do they repair ships in outerspace?

[Deks]

The point is, that as they can convert theta radiation (which was also described as energy) into a usable energy form (such as warp plasma) and distributed into the EPS grid.
Omicron particles (omicron radiation) would undergo a same process of conversion before being put into the system.
Changing energy from one form into another through subatomic manipulation.

A dyne is 1g X cm/s^2, or a whopping /10^-8 newtons. A teradyne, hence, is 10^4 Newtons. 4000 teradynes is 4 X 10^7 newtons. Leaving aside the curious notion of calculating the output of a reactor in force instead of watts or at least joules*), I'd like to point out that 40,000 newtons is not particularly much. Apparently the warp reactor generates roughly as much force as a large automobile... exerts against the pavement when it's sitting in a driveway. That's pretty lame. It's like Tom Paris saying his weiner was 2000 giga-angstroms long.

*Seriously, though, and I'll be charitable--is it referring to the pressure of the warp plasma? What's the per second for? There is already a change-over-time dimension to a dyne. Is the pressure increasing? After ten seconds, is the core generating 40,000 teradynes?

And another thing! 4000 teradynes is 4 exadynes!

Comparing a warp core to an automobile is ... well, I won't even comment on that, because a car can't generate a warp field, or propel a ship faster than light, nor can it decimate everything within at least million km radius upon exploding (keep in mind that a 'puny' Delta Fyer warp core was mentioned how nothing within a million km radius would survive ... this is likely without shields).

One thing to keep in mind that as science moved forward in Trek, it's quite possible they revised the measuring system and units as well on more than one occasion.

It happened with the Warp scale after all, so Warp 8 in TOS was not the same as Warp 8 in TNG or VOY.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

But Starfleet ships are not producing the amount of power that would be needed to make that system workable. That would literally require a starship to convert at least as much matter as is used by the crew, which means you now have to dump dozens of kilograms of fuel into the reactor every second JUST TO RUN THE REPLICATORS.

Lol.
Voyager's warp core produces 4000 teradynes per second for example which allows faster than light propulsion (and of course powers every other system on the ship), but power requirements of replicators were not stated on-screen to my recollection.
Why would they 'dump dozens of kilograms of fuel into the reactor every second just to run the replicators' as you say, when the warp core already produces the energy needed for them?

Because, for one thing, "dynes" is a unit of force, not a unit of energy, and the reference can be interpretted (like most of what was stated in Voyager) as technical gibberish. But even with this power output, a teradyne can be interpretted as one newton acting on one kilogram, which may loosely be interpreted as one joule. 4000 terawatts about 4 petajoules per second. This is the amount of power the warp core would produce if it was reacting TWENTY GRAMS of antimatter with twenty grams of matter. As I've already explained to you, in order to turn energy directly into matter, you need to have an equivalent amount of energy to work with; since 4000 "teradynes" of energy is only equivalent to 20 grams of matter, then any replicated item larger than that will draw 100% of the warp core's output for the entire time it takes to replicate it.

They were using reorganization of pre-existing quantity of matter on the NX-01 via the protein re sequencer and recycling of waste into various other things.
Kirk's Enterprise did the same thing on a more refined level.

And in the 24th century it was refined so much that a machine the size of a beer cooler could do what--a hundred years earlier--would have required a building-sized fabricator (reference: the replicator Picard gave to the Uxbridges, who were not equipped with a warp core).

The late 24th century technology as I saw it and as it was explained did virtually everything through conversion of matter and energy

Apart from a handful of references in "Encounter at Farpoint," 24th century technology is NOT described this way.

it was already stated on-screen that replicators convert energy into matter.

When and by whom?

Sigh ... they have a gigantic warp core spanning multiple decks that operates on matter/antimatter reactions to produce enormous quantities of energy which is distributed throughout the ship via the EPS grid in a form of a volatile, yet controllable plasma.

And I already explained to you that the ONLY way to convert energy into matter is through pair production. That energy doesn't just create matter, it also creates ANTImatter. Replicators are also used to break down waste materials (old dishes, unfinished food, etc) which would require bombarding that material WITH antimatter to turn it back into energy.

Replicators obviously do not work this way, in fact the only device on the ship that DOES is the warp core.

And I suppose 15 years of on-screen evidence is to be thrown out the window?

Are you going to CITE that evidence some day, or are you just going to keep insisting that someone, somewhere, said something you agree with?

Energy that SF ships use is made of particles, is it not?

Energy isn't "made of" anything. I told you already: energy is a quality, not a substance. You can conflate energy with the substance that carries it (as we often do in industry terms; "renewable energy" actually refers to types of fuel).

As an emergent property, energy patterns can exist as a distinct thing apart from a physical particle, but energy itself isn't a substance and should not be treated as such.

Raw matter would be easily and directly recycled into the ship's systems through conversion into energy for storage and later use.

Except because of the ENORMOUS amounts of energy equivalent to matter, it is always more efficient to store that matter AS matter instead of converting it into energy. In fact, FYI, it's also more efficient to store ENERGY that way; if it wasn't, warp cores would be unnecessary, and starships would be powered by giant batteries.

Given how SF was displayed with an ability to actually store energy in suspended states for example, I hardly see the problem here.

Because it bears repeating: the ultimate suspended state of energy is, in fact, MATTER.

Even if you have the technology to convert energy directly into matter without using pair production (violating at least a dozen laws of physics in the process) you can never store as much energy as you can store matter in a container of the same size. No mechanical device in the universe has greater energy density than physical matter, so even if you use a battery to store energy, the physical structure of the battery is worth more several orders of magnitude more than the energy it stores.

 

[shadowedgalaxy]

TL;DR
Robau can do it with his mind.

 

[Myasishchev]

I'm somewhat willing to buy a mastery over the Higgs field somehow that would permit creating primarily fermions of the desired type.

Nevertheless, that doesn't invalidate the other, more pertinent objections to beaming gamma rays through the ship. You can call 'em theta rays or delta rays or lollipop particles if you want, but they will have kinetic energies measured at the GeV level, and they will not want to become massive again except in the same kind of densities found in the early universe.

 

[Deks]

We know that both Holodecks and Replicators are an outgrowth of Transporter technology.

I would like to correct an error in saying that it was directly stated how replicators work on-screen, however, it was mentioned for the Holodecks in Voyager episode 'Heroes and Demons':
[Holodeck - Great Hall]
TUVOK: If the holodeck's conversion nodes were contaminated, Ensign Kim may have inadvertently undergone the process of matter conversion.
CHAKOTAY: You're saying he might have been converted into energy?
[Bridge]
JANEWAY: We have to consider it a possibility. After all, the holodeck are basically an outgrowth of transporter technology, changing energy into matter and back again every time a program is run.
TORRES: Except it's not supposed to convert people.


Torres was referring of course to the holodeck in this instance because the purpose of the thing is entertainment/exercise/simulations/whatnot, and not conversion of people into energy, but it's interesting that Janeway notes how the Holodecks convert energy into matter and back again, and not the other way around for creating something (and we know that actual matter such as food is made on the holodecks every once in a while so the people running the programs can actually consume it for example).
The process of matter into energy is what happens while the program is running ... so in this instance, Kim ended up converted from matter into energy while the program was running.

Granted, replicators aren't mentioned, yet I fail to see as to why the same principles cannot be applied to them as well since they use the same principles.
'Breaking the laws of physics' is immaterial here since we aren't talking of technology in the real world for one thing, and for the other, I again repeat, it's supposed to take place over 200 years into the future. The energy requirements being 'large' is quite possibly a valid statement, however, I fail to see as to why would 'newtype alpha' statement be accurate in entirety just because it conflicts with OUR knowledge of laws of physics and understanding of the universe (SF would likely be several orders of magnitude far above us in this knowledge, and since they are skillful in bypassing and compensating for various issues, why not this as well to allow for direct energy to matter and vice versa conversion?).

What was said on-screen by the characters may seem simplistic, but I don't see the reason as to why it shouldn't be taken at face value either given their overall capabilities and the fact the events are supposed to take place over 200 years into the future, working with not just newly discovered knowledge, but a pre-existing one from races such as Vulcans that were in space for 2000 years before humans.

 

[Mytran]

...I already explained to you that the ONLY way to convert energy into matter is through pair production..

I have to agree with Deks' point that we are talking about future technology here, so there may be hitherto undiscovered means of switching matter into energy and back again.

However, the basic point still stands - an 8 oz steak under the proposed system will require the energy contained in 8 oz of (anti)matter to produce it (discounting the energy required to assemble the damn thing - future tech, remember?).

Losing half a pound of fuel just to have a bite to eat seems incredibly wasteful, but maybe 24th century starships have an unlimited supply of antimatter somehow? In the VOY episode "Demon" it was deuterium, not anti-deuterium that was running out. I don't like to use VOY science normally, but in the viewpoint of 24th century replicators it seems to fit!

 

[Myasishchev]

Running out of deuterium is pretty hard work. Many (most?) main sequence stars have gas giants, and all gas giants that I can imagine have copious amounts of deuterium.

 

[Timo]

But it's probably a vicious circle. Janeway would have been heading for places where she could get deuterium purified and ready; been rudely turned back from several of those in a row; would have headed for places where she could find concentrated deuterium easily available (not in a gas giant), not finding too many; and would have been wasting deuterium at every step. Finally, her only option would have been to find concentrated deuterium - she simply didn't have enough fuel left to refuel in a gas giant.

Note that this was the first time a fuel shortage happened, to our knowledge. Yet there was no indication that she had been running on her original tank, filled up at DS9; rather, it seemed she got regular refills during her first few years in the Delta Quadrant. "Demon" came as a nasty surprise, a rare occurrence that doesn't necessarily contradict the general availability of deuterium in the Trek universe.

In general, it doesn't seem as if our heroes would really have to cope with E=mcc when replicating or transporting. They can probably sidestep it when they do matter-to-matter or matter-to-different-matter, so that the intermediate step is this "phased matter" stuff. And when they converted Picard to nothing much in "Lonely Among Us", they could simply have left his body in the pattern buffer (indeed, it sounds they did exactly that, even if the terminology was vague compared with later technobabble).

The idea of turning substance X to sandwiches is workable enough, in terms of the pseudoscience. The only real question then is, when they create matter out of nothing much, what do they create it out of? Do they really burn antimatter for that?

If they do, it would be nice to know how much power the warp drive consumes. If that's big enough a figure, then turning E into m(sandwich)cc is quite acceptable in comparison. If it's something comparable to said sandwich replication, only then do we run into further problems...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BK613]

^^
Another thing to consider is that UFP/SF is very, very good at storing energy. Hand phasers anyone?

Perhaps the replicator has a bank of some form of technobabble capacitor that is slowly charged up as the replicator sits idle until someone orders a cup of earl gray, then ZAP! massive discharge of energy, then back to charging up again.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^^
Another thing to consider is that UFP/SF is very, very good at storing energy. Hand phasers anyone?

Perhaps the replicator has a bank of some form of technobabble capacitor that is slowly charged up as the replicator sits idle until someone orders a cup of earl gray, then ZAP! massive discharge of energy, then back to charging up again.

Because once again, any container used to store energy will by definition not be able to store as much energy as the CONTAINER ITSELF would yield if it was converted into energy.

It therefore makes sense to simply store replicator stock as matter instead of energy; even if they ARE conversion devices, this saves you the trouble of having to train the warp core six thousand times a day to feed everyone on the ship, you can just convert some of your inert material into energy and then quickly back into matter.

But if replicators are doing that anyway, there's no advantage to total-conversion devices. They would simply and more efficiently re-arrange molecules in the desired fashion, exactly as described in the tech manual.

 

[Myasishchev]

But it's probably a vicious circle. Janeway would have been heading for places where she could get deuterium purified and ready; been rudely turned back from several of those in a row; would have headed for places where she could find concentrated deuterium easily available (not in a gas giant), not finding too many; and would have been wasting deuterium at every step. Finally, her only option would have been to find concentrated deuterium - she simply didn't have enough fuel left to refuel in a gas giant.

Note that this was the first time a fuel shortage happened, to our knowledge. Yet there was no indication that she had been running on her original tank, filled up at DS9; rather, it seemed she got regular refills during her first few years in the Delta Quadrant. "Demon" came as a nasty surprise, a rare occurrence that doesn't necessarily contradict the general availability of deuterium in the Trek universe.

I guess it's buyable.

In general, it doesn't seem as if our heroes would really have to cope with E=mcc when replicating or transporting. They can probably sidestep it when they do matter-to-matter or matter-to-different-matter, so that the intermediate step is this "phased matter" stuff. And when they converted Picard to nothing much in "Lonely Among Us", they could simply have left his body in the pattern buffer (indeed, it sounds they did exactly that, even if the terminology was vague compared with later technobabble).

It's better than an M-E-M conversion, but is troublesome in its own right.

The idea of turning substance X to sandwiches is workable enough, in terms of the pseudoscience. The only real question then is, when they create matter out of nothing much, what do they create it out of? Do they really burn antimatter for that?

I think some, yes, to power the replicators, not to get the raw material.

If they do, it would be nice to know how much power the warp drive consumes.

Iirc, and I'm not gonna look it up right this sec, the 275,000 ton figure Probert gave for the Romulan black hole power source would produce energy comparable (somewhat less, but in the same OOM) with a gram per second annihilator core. Heh, it'd be cool to have a unit called a "Nagasaki-second."

If that's big enough a figure, then turning E into m(sandwich)cc is quite acceptable in comparison. If it's something comparable to said sandwich replication, only then do we run into further problems...

We can make good guesses of the upper limits of fuel supply and hence maximum fuel expenditures based on the size of the ships. Because presumable that they don't keep mass in a degenerate state (that would require more energy and hence more fuel!), there is a limit to the density of matter (or antimatter) aboard. You're an artificial gravity aficionado, though, so you might not believe Pauli exclusion is a valid constraint.

 

[BK613]

^^
Another thing to consider is that UFP/SF is very, very good at storing energy. Hand phasers anyone?

Perhaps the replicator has a bank of some form of technobabble capacitor that is slowly charged up as the replicator sits idle until someone orders a cup of earl gray, then ZAP! massive discharge of energy, then back to charging up again.

Because once again, any container used to store energy will by definition not be able to store as much energy as the CONTAINER ITSELF would yield if it was converted into energy.

It therefore makes sense to simply store replicator stock as matter instead of energy; even if they ARE conversion devices, this saves you the trouble of having to train the warp core six thousand times a day to feed everyone on the ship, you can just convert some of your inert material into energy and then quickly back into matter.

But if replicators are doing that anyway, there's no advantage to total-conversion devices. They would simply and more efficiently re-arrange molecules in the desired fashion, exactly as described in the tech manual.

TBH, my comments were meant to dovetail into TIMO's and I was simply pointing out that SF already had tech that didn't require browning out the reactor whenever a steak was ordered. Which ever version of replicator you're using.

BTW, wouldn't it be 4 oz of anti-deuterium and 4 oz of deuterium for that 8 oz steak?

 

[Mysterion]

The same way they do it in the military now. You carry tools and spares parts and stock. And much like todays military there is only so much damage you can repair on your own.

Hell, are there not ships in a carrier fleet that are nothing but machine shops?

Sure, you've got tenders, combat support ships, supply ships, fuel tankers, etc. in the navies of today. Not too big of a jump IMO to suppose Starfleet has similar assets. Plus individual ships would probably carry spares of whatever equipment they could manage to.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

BTW, wouldn't it be 4 oz of anti-deuterium and 4 oz of deuterium for that 8 oz steak?

No, 8 ounces of each, unless you want your crew to eat food that is 50% antimatter. Now, sure, antimatter is less filling, but it's empty calories and not very nutritious.

 

[Mytran]

No, 8 ounces of each, unless you want your crew to eat food that is 50% antimatter. Now, sure, antimatter is less filling, but it's empty calories and not very nutritious.

However...
Since we're only talking about energy produced, it depends how efficient their M/AM reaction process is. Under normal circumstances 50% of the energy is lost through gamma rays and nutrinos, but if Starships have a way to capture and reuse those, then you should only need 4oz M, 4oz AM
(This still ignores the energy requirements to actually assemble the steak)

 

[Crazy Eddie]

No, 8 ounces of each, unless you want your crew to eat food that is 50% antimatter. Now, sure, antimatter is less filling, but it's empty calories and not very nutritious.

However...
Since we're only talking about energy produced, it depends how efficient their M/AM reaction process is. Under normal circumstances 50% of the energy is lost through gamma rays and nutrinos, but if Starships have a way to capture and reuse those, then you should only need 4oz M, 4oz AM
(This still ignores the energy requirements to actually assemble the steak)

Again, no, because of the parity required. You can only convert matter directly into energy if you react it with an equivalent amount of antimatter, but you cannot turn the antimatter into normal matter using the same reaction.

As I said earlier: every 8oz steak you create also MUST create an 8oz antisteak somewhere on the ship. Breaking antiparticle duality violates alot of energy conservation requirements.

 

[Cpt Cullison]

All they do is get the ship into space dock ,all enginners/mechanics suit with the right eqiupment

 

[Deks]

Again, no, because of the parity required. You can only convert matter directly into energy if you react it with an equivalent amount of antimatter, but you cannot turn the antimatter into normal matter using the same reaction.

As I said earlier: every 8oz steak you create also MUST create an 8oz antisteak somewhere on the ship. Breaking antiparticle duality violates alot of energy conservation requirements.

And again, you are ignoring the most glaring fact:
It's happening well over 200 years in the future where understanding of physics, nature, galaxy and universe are multiple orders of magnitude far above ours, and the Federation has 150 different races working in union to create/realize ideas.
When we have the ability to produce matter/anti-matter reactions on their level, propel ships at FTL velocities and whatnot, THEN you can make a comparison between what we know today, and what they know with their technology/knowledge.

Nothing on-screen contradicts that replicators convert energy itself into matter ... in fact, it's directly implied, and also further substantiated by statements it's an energy intensive procedure.

Also ... one thing that is ... curious at best:
What about the Endgame armor exactly?
It comes with the generators of course... and yet, how exactly will you store enough raw matter to create enough armor hull plates that cover the entire ship, and are several times thicker than the actual hull plates?

Just where did Voyager get thousands of tons of raw matter for one thing for the duration of Endgame?

I would find that very inefficient for one thing.
Conversion of energy into matter makes far better sense, especially if they found the way to optimize the heck out of the process so it bypasses the energy conservation requirements (as we understand them today).

The conversion process can still be just enough energy intensive to threaten Voyager in the long run (given their predicament early in the show) ... although, as I already noted ... they were able to acquire the tech in Season 7 which tripled replicator efficiency and reduced power needed to create materials by half compared to before.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Again, no, because of the parity required. You can only convert matter directly into energy if you react it with an equivalent amount of antimatter, but you cannot turn the antimatter into normal matter using the same reaction.

As I said earlier: every 8oz steak you create also MUST create an 8oz antisteak somewhere on the ship. Breaking antiparticle duality violates alot of energy conservation requirements.

And again, you are ignoring the most glaring fact:
It's happening well over 200 years in the future where understanding of physics, nature, galaxy and universe are multiple orders of magnitude far above ours, and the Federation has 150 different races working in union to create/realize ideas.

Which is just another way of saying "a wizard did it." Unless there's a canon reference dis-establishing matter-energy equivalence--which DIRECTLY establishes this equivalence can only be realized by annihilation--then the point stands.

So stop begging the question: IS there another way of converting matter into energy, or do you just assume there is a way because you think you saw something on Voyager that kinda seems like there is?

Nothing on-screen contradicts that replicators convert energy itself into matter

Other than the thousands of factors I've already mentioned, plus the fact that in DS9 "Babel" it is explicitly shown that Cardassian replicators use a raw material feed into the machinery itself to be reorganized instead of piping it from a holding tank via waveguides as in Starfleet replicators.

in fact, it's directly implied, and also further substantiated by statements it's an energy intensive procedure.

And as I've already explained, it isn't energy intensive the way matter-energy conversions are energy intensive. You might as well be suggesting that fuel cell cars are powered by fusion reactors just because they use hydrogen as fuel.

What about the Endgame armor exactly?

What about it? We don't know what it's made of, whether it's a physical structure or a highly sophisticated holographic material. If it's the latter, then it does the same job as conventional deflector shields only with half the energy and twice the effect.

It comes with the generators of course... and yet, how exactly will you store enough raw matter to create enough armor hull plates that cover the entire ship, and are several times thicker than the actual hull plates?

You wouldn't. Unfortunately, what you're forgetting is that, if you can't store that much matter, then BY DEFINITION, you cannot store that much energy either. You can always store more matter than you can store energy. In fact, you can store ALOT more matter than you can store energy, several orders of magnitude in fact.

So the Endgame Batman Armor would have to be something requiring relatively small amounts of energy or else it would be a wasted effort (and even Janeway's little shuttlecraft is capable of using it, so this is a given). We at least know that holograms are sufficiently energy-cheap that they can be generated and sustained even with main power disabled, so a highly coherent solid hologram (essentially, a forcefield shaped into a solid plate) would fit the bill nicely.

Conversion of energy into matter makes far better sense, especially if they found the way to optimize the heck out of the process so it bypasses the energy conservation requirements (as we understand them today).

Thereby producing more energy than five hundred warp cores literally out of nowhere. Which, again, is another way of saying "A wizard did it."

Of course, since 90% of what happens on Voyager fits that general definition, this isn't surprising.

The conversion process can still be just enough energy intensive to threaten Voyager in the long run

Using anything resembling real science, it would threaten them very much in the SHORT term too.

 

[Deks]

Which is just another way of saying "a wizard did it." Unless there's a canon reference dis-establishing matter-energy equivalence--which DIRECTLY establishes this equivalence can only be realized by annihilation--then the point stands.

If you wish to resort to draconian descriptions of 'a wizard did it', then go right ahead.
Keeping in mind the fact that we are in technological infancy today and SF operates on an entirely different angle (which also breaks numerous things we established to this day), making a preposterous claim that YOU know better and what we will be capable of doing in 200 years ... well, that's just downright arrogant and not really worth contemplating.

So stop begging the question: IS there another way of converting matter into energy, or do you just assume there is a way because you think you saw something on Voyager that kinda seems like there is?

Actually, I interpret on-screen evidence as a given with what was previously established and I don't draw things from a non-canonical book.

Other than the thousands of factors I've already mentioned, plus the fact that in DS9 "Babel" it is explicitly shown that Cardassian replicators use a raw material feed into the machinery itself to be reorganized instead of piping it from a holding tank via waveguides as in Starfleet replicators.

And by 'factors', you mean, drawing from our own limited scientific knowledge of the early 21st century when compared to the late 24th century science and knowledge?
That's laughable.

As for Cardassian replicators ... we saw on numerous occasions liquids and various forms of raw matter getting into several ship systems when they were damaged (and the malfunctions affected the entire station in that episode). Also point remains that those are Cardassian issue replicators built on a mining station decades before SF set foot on it.
Cardassian tech was repeatedly stated to be inferior to SF's.

And as I've already explained, it isn't energy intensive the way matter-energy conversions are energy intensive. You might as well be suggesting that fuel cell cars are powered by fusion reactors just because they use hydrogen as fuel.

I'm hardly suggesting anything ... you are the one focusing on comparisons between warp cores and cars ... when one is nothing alike the other.

What about it? We don't know what it's made of, whether it's a physical structure or a highly sophisticated holographic material. If it's the latter, then it does the same job as conventional deflector shields only with half the energy and twice the effect.

Oh I definitely concede the possibility that it's a highly sophisticated holographic technology, and yet, when we see the armor opening for the torpedoes, it's not a simple fading de-materializing effect, it's also physically opening.
It behaves nothing like holograms for one thing, and I would imagine it would have to be physical structure (and the effect it had in protecting the ship from Borg weapons was far higher than mere 'twice as much').

You wouldn't. Unfortunately, what you're forgetting is that, if you can't store that much matter, then BY DEFINITION, you cannot store that much energy either. You can always store more matter than you can store energy. In fact, you can store ALOT more matter than you can store energy, several orders of magnitude in fact.

Again drawing conclusions based on contemporary understanding of it.
How do you know SF hasn't discovered a way to store equal amounts of energy and matter ... or storing/producing much MORE energy than matter (which would make sense if they are converting it into matter).

So the Endgame Batman Armor would have to be something requiring relatively small amounts of energy or else it would be a wasted effort (and even Janeway's little shuttlecraft is capable of using it, so this is a given). We at least know that holograms are sufficiently energy-cheap that they can be generated and sustained even with main power disabled, so a highly coherent solid hologram (essentially, a forcefield shaped into a solid plate) would fit the bill nicely.

Not necessarily ... Voyager never engaged the Warp engines to begin with, and Admiral Janeway came from 26 years into the future, where technological discoveries could have been enormous by comparison (since it's a timeline in which Voyager came back from the DQ filled with all kinds of techs, and not to mention the various knowledge SF acquired in the earlier years from more powerful races that would be deciphered in a more meaningful capacity around that alternate future era).

Thereby producing more energy than five hundred warp cores literally out of nowhere. Which, again, is another way of saying "A wizard did it."

Of course, since 90% of what happens on Voyager fits that general definition, this isn't surprising.

Your chosen interpretation of the show, which I respect, but of course do not acknowledge.
I also thought that DS9 was sub-par compared to other Trek shows (but that's just personal taste).

Using anything resembling real science, it would threaten them very much in the SHORT term too.

'Real science' (or rather what it established) was revised as time went on.
Some rules were outright broken, others were bent.
To NOT keep in mind this kind of aspect on a far larger scale (especially when talking about the Feds and all of the factors involved) is just plain small-minded.

I keep an open mind to the possibility that replicators are merely re-arranging raw matter into new materials, but given everything that was shown on-screen to be done by SF ships to begin with ... to discard direct energy to matter transformation would be short sighted.