Season 3: Almost New Trek (for me..)

[Christopher]

I think Plato's Stepchildren is underrated. The Dwarf Alexander is one of the most memorable guest stars in the series. His character was touching. The speech kirk gave about size, shape, and color not mattering in the federation was classic Roddenberry ideals.

I argue the only reason people dislike this episode is because of some of the silly stuff the characters are forced to do by the bad guys. That is only a small portion of the story and As it's supposed to be humiliating and degrading I think it's effective.

I agree completely. Michael Dunn is superb as Alexander. And the humiliations that Kirk and Spock are forced to endure are wrenching and disturbing to watch.

My only problem with the episode is that the use of kironide to induce telekinetic superpowers was never mentioned again. Though I guess that injecting heavy metals into your bloodstream would likely be toxic in the long term.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

I argue the only reason people dislike this episode is because of some of the silly stuff the characters are forced to do by the bad guys. That is only a small portion of the story and As it's supposed to be humiliating and degrading I think it's effective.

There's nothing like something that tortures me to make an episode my favorite. Not.

 

[Klingon Empire]

I am getting season 2 and 3 for Christmas what episodes do you suggest I watch

All Our Yesterdays And Turnabout Intruder, the very last two episodes, are simply great.

The Tholian Web and the Empath are good as well, definitely suggested. Elaan Of Troyius was good as well.

As for season two: Amok Time is the Number One Episode out of Season Two, so watch that first, the probably Mirror, Mirror, one of my all time faves. The Doomsday Machine was fantastic as well, and I highly suggest it. I really enjoyed The Trouble With Tribbles, so give that a watch.

A Private Little War was a fave of mine as well, and I suggest that one. I really enjoyed Patterns of Force as well, so, give that one a watch. Obsession was definitely a good one.

I think that's it. So, here's a list

Season 3:

1. All our Yesterdays

2. Turnabout Intruder

3. The Tholian Web

4. The Empath

5. Elaan Of Troyius

Season 3 I did not mention, but still liked and recommend:

1. Whom Gods Destroy

2. That Which Survives

3. Requiem For Methuselah

Season Two:

1. Amok Time

2. Mirror, Mirror

3. The Doomsday Machine

4. The Trouble With Tribbles

5. A Private Little War

6. Patterns Of Force

7. Obsession

Season Two Eps I may not have mentioned but still like and recommend:

1. Return To Tomorrow

There you have it! Hope that helped.

 

[Kirkman1987]

I argue the only reason people dislike this episode is because of some of the silly stuff the characters are forced to do by the bad guys. That is only a small portion of the story and As it's supposed to be humiliating and degrading I think it's effective.

There's nothing like something that tortures me to make an episode my favorite. Not.

There is nothing wrong with degrading a character in the service of a good story. Ever seen The Elephant Man?

D.W. Griffith said that it was important to show darkness in film so that the nature of good could be truly understood.

The dwarf riding shatner may seem cheesy, but look at the pain in Alexander's eyes, he's ashamed of himself.This may be sad to watch, but look how it contributes to an excellent story. In the following scene, which is fantastic, we get to see our heroes recover from this violation. in a great Nimoy scene, Spock is so affected by their mistreatment that he shows genuine emotional concern for kirk, then expresses that he is actually angry at thier captors.

And Micheal Dunn is top notch in this episode. He is so charming in this role, and you really feel for him. He gets humilitated yes, but you also get pure joy when he discovers his self worth and proves he's the better man when he allows them to live. He's a versatile actor, running a gamut of emotions for one episode.

not to mention that seeing a Dwarf in this kind of positive role was uncommon back then, and even today, where dwarfs are either fantasy creatures, monsters, or comedic relief. Alexander was a real person, and I like that.

Finally, good triumphed. I recently watched this with my girlfriend, who had never seen it. When Kirk gained the power and turned the tables, my girlfriend let out a very satisfied grin

People's opinions differ of course, but I'll always defend this one. It's a classic Star Trek morality play that tests the big three, has an exellent guest star, and is just great start to finish.



of course you may disagree

 

[ToddPence]

All Our Yesterdays And Turnabout Intruder, the very last two episodes, are simply great.

I don't know if I would call "Turnabout Intruder" great. It's got a pretty novel idea for a story, putting Captain Kirk's mind in a vengeful ex-lover's body. Good enough setup, but didn't really explore that as much as it could have. I guess my main problem with this episode has always been that our heroes never really DO anything to solve the problem of how to get Kirk back into his own body, it just happens by itself as the transereference wears off at the end of the show. This makes the resolution of the episode, to me at least, a bit of a deus ex machina (sp?) and anticlimactic.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

>>There is nothing wrong with degrading a character in the service of a good story. Ever seen The Elephant Man?<<
Yeah, and that had a good story. But what was the good story in Plato's Stepchildren? In all these years, I haven't seen one.

>>The dwarf riding shatner may seem cheesy, but look at the pain in Alexander's eyes, he's ashamed of himself.This may be sad to watch, but look how it contributes to an excellent story. In the following scene, which is fantastic, we get to see our heroes recover from this violation. in a great Nimoy scene, Spock is so affected by their mistreatment that he shows genuine emotional concern for kirk, then expresses that he is actually angry at thier captors.<<
That's a couple of scenes with good acting, not an entire good story. And none of that had anything to do with the characters until Spock starts to laugh.

>>And Micheal Dunn is top notch in this episode. He is so charming in this role, and you really feel for him. He gets humilitated yes, but you also get pure joy when he discovers his self worth and proves he's the better man when he allows them to live. He's a versatile actor, running a gamut of emotions for one episode.<<
I agree he was great in the role, but that's just one part of PS.

>>People's opinions differ of course, but I'll always defend this one.<<
Have fun. I found it to be predictable and padded to the hills.

>>of course you may disagree <<
I disagree. But maybe you can tell me: If the bad folks had telekinesis, why didn't they just lift the Enterprise officers off the ground and bring them in and out instead of "forcing" them to walk in and out? I know why it's that way in real life, but that's a big flaw in the story for me. Kind of like using the Force to move big objects and then falling into a hole.

 

[Kirkman1987]

>>I disagree. But maybe you can tell me: If the bad folks had telekinesis, why didn't they just lift the Enterprise officers off the ground and bring them in and out instead of "forcing" them to walk in and out? I know why it's that way in real life, but that's a big flaw in the story for me. Kind of like using the Force to move big objects and then falling into a hole.

Agree to disagree on the rest, but for this, It seems a tad nitpciky to me.

Star Trek was produced in the 60's, on a limited television budget. This effects a lot of the episodes, and is not limited to this one or Even TOS. you might as well ask why the anti-gravity stayed on even when ships were completely decimated.

As it is, There's no reason they wouldn't just force them to walk. In fact, it makes sense if you consider that most of the time they were being called to court, with the bad guys acting as royalty. Maybe they wished to keep such things ceremonial, or maybe they were just further entertained by watching them stagger desperately.

 

[Christopher]

I disagree. But maybe you can tell me: If the bad folks had telekinesis, why didn't they just lift the Enterprise officers off the ground and bring them in and out instead of "forcing" them to walk in and out? I know why it's that way in real life, but that's a big flaw in the story for me.

If you need to move a 70-kg object across a room, isn't it easier just to pull it across the floor than to lift it clear into the air? Assuming that telekinesis isn't pure magic and obeys sensible laws and limits, then it would take more exertion to lift a person into the air than it would to drag them forward on their own feet.

 

[Chrisisall]

If you need to move a 70-kg object across a room, isn't it easier just to pull it across the floor than to lift it clear into the air?

Logical.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

>>I disagree. But maybe you can tell me: If the bad folks had telekinesis, why didn't they just lift the Enterprise officers off the ground and bring them in and out instead of "forcing" them to walk in and out? I know why it's that way in real life, but that's a big flaw in the story for me. Kind of like using the Force to move big objects and then falling into a hole.

Agree to disagree on the rest, but for this, It seems a tad nitpciky to me.

Star Trek was produced in the 60's, on a limited television budget. This effects a lot of the episodes, and is not limited to this one or Even TOS. you might as well ask why the anti-gravity stayed on even when ships were completely decimated.

As it is, There's no reason they wouldn't just force them to walk. In fact, it makes sense if you consider that most of the time they were being called to court, with the bad guys acting as royalty. Maybe they wished to keep such things ceremonial, or maybe they were just further entertained by watching them stagger desperately.

I fully understand the lack of contemporary effects in the 1960s and the fact that to have lifted the Big Three off the floor would have looked awkward and cheesy as CG, but if they wanted Kirk, Spock and McCoy to feel helpless, that was the way to go. The technology came around in the next few decades, but it would have been wiser to scrap a second-class effect and do something better than what we got.

With so much of the episode relying on the actors to portray being "forced" into doing silly stuff, I think another round with the writers was required.

Regardless, I can never be convinced that the episode was any better than Classic Trek's bottom five.

 

[Kirkman1987]

>>I disagree. But maybe you can tell me: If the bad folks had telekinesis, why didn't they just lift the Enterprise officers off the ground and bring them in and out instead of "forcing" them to walk in and out? I know why it's that way in real life, but that's a big flaw in the story for me. Kind of like using the Force to move big objects and then falling into a hole.

Agree to disagree on the rest, but for this, It seems a tad nitpciky to me.

Star Trek was produced in the 60's, on a limited television budget. This effects a lot of the episodes, and is not limited to this one or Even TOS. you might as well ask why the anti-gravity stayed on even when ships were completely decimated.

As it is, There's no reason they wouldn't just force them to walk. In fact, it makes sense if you consider that most of the time they were being called to court, with the bad guys acting as royalty. Maybe they wished to keep such things ceremonial, or maybe they were just further entertained by watching them stagger desperately.

I fully understand the lack of contemporary effects in the 1960s and the fact that to have lifted the Big Three off the floor would have looked awkward and cheesy as CG, but if they wanted Kirk, Spock and McCoy to feel helpless, that was the way to go. The technology came around in the next few decades, but it would have been wiser to scrap a second-class effect and do something better than what we got.

With so much of the episode relying on the actors to portray being "forced" into doing silly stuff, I think another round with the writers was required.

Regardless, I can never be convinced that the episode was any better than Classic Trek's bottom five.

I'm just glad they didn't do that stupid effect again, seen in so many trek episodes, where it makes that ridiculous "bonking noise" and the characters disappear and end up somewhere else.

They kinda overused that one......

Out of interest, what is your bottom five?

I haven't seen the latter part of season three for a few years, I'm going through it (I've seen it 3 or 4 times in the past though) right now with my girlfriend, but Here's mine for the whole series, not just season 3

Alternative Factor
Mudd's Women
Mark of Gideon
Lights of Zetar
Cloud Minders

I think the worst TOS episodes are the ones that are just boring. A Spock's Brain manages to be fun for goofy it is, but most of those above were just dreadfully boring imo.

 

[Christopher]

I fully understand the lack of contemporary effects in the 1960s and the fact that to have lifted the Big Three off the floor would have looked awkward and cheesy as CG, but if they wanted Kirk, Spock and McCoy to feel helpless, that was the way to go. The technology came around in the next few decades, but it would have been wiser to scrap a second-class effect and do something better than what we got.

CG? What are you talking about? Even today, if a production needed to show someone levitating through the air, they'd just put a harness under their clothes, attach them to wires, and have several strong stagehands drag them up into the air. The only involvement computers have in that effect these days is to erase the wires from the image -- which allows using thicker, safer wires. In the old days, they had to use the thinnest wires possible and coat them in a substance that made them dull and nonreflective, and even so, you could often see the wires.

Honestly, people these days are way too quick to assume that any and all special effects are computerized. Computers are just one tool in the box.

With so much of the episode relying on the actors to portray being "forced" into doing silly stuff, I think another round with the writers was required.

Why? That was the whole point. I disagree that being levitated would be the superior approach. Sure, being bodily lifted through the air would give you a feeling of helplessness. But think about how much more humiliating and invasive it is for someone to steal your control of your own muscles from you, to turn you into a puppet whose every movement is under their control. Just being lifted off the ground and levitated around is an attack from outside, but having your own muscles and voice puppeteered by another person is an invasion from within, a much more intimate and horrifying violation. The approach they took was absolutely the right approach.

 

[MikeH92467]

NObody has ever explained how the Platonians could use telekinesis to force anyone to say something. Force them to move, yes...force them to say something...nah....

 

[Christopher]

NObody has ever explained how the Platonians could use telekinesis to force anyone to say something. Force them to move, yes...force them to say something...nah....

Uhh... you say things by moving. Your diaphragm muscles move to push air out of your lungs, your larynx moves to bring the vocal folds together so they vibrate in the airstream, and your tongue and lips move to shape the sounds coming out. It's all muscle motion, just as much as walking is. If they could take telekinetic control of your muscles to make you walk or dance or wield a whip or prance around like a horsie, they could use the same ability to force you to make the sounds they wanted you to make.

 

[Captain Randy Hall]

Sheesh. All this fuss over my least favorite episode.

>>I'm just glad they didn't do that stupid effect again, seen in so many trek episodes, where it makes that ridiculous "bonking noise" and the characters disappear and end up somewhere else.

They kinda overused that one......<<
I think the producers had watched too much of Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie and felt the need to have a sound effect to punctuate the change on the screen.

>>Out of interest, what is your bottom five?<<
I'm not the best list-maker. I know my top two episodes are Amok Time and The Empath, but I don't really have a top 5 or top 10 list. Same with the bottom. I just remember if I like an episode or not.

And regarding CGI, I know that's useful in making science fiction TV, but I'm not a big advocate of it either way. Whatever gets the job done.

Now if you folks don't mind, I'm not going to think about Plato's Stepchildren for a while so I can enjoy my favorite show again...

 

[plynch]

"And The Children Shall Lead" is also famous for boasting three future "Brady Bunch" guest stars.

Not to mention two future Space Academy leads, Pamelyn Ferdin and Brian Tochi. Ferdin is also famous as the voice of Lucy in A Charlie Brown Christmas. Tochi went on to appear as a helmsman in TNG and was the voice of Leonardo in the three live-action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles films.

I was in love with Pamelyn Ferdin in the 70s. Space Academy -- now THERE was a show! Sigh.

 

[T'Bonz]

I was in love with Pamelyn Ferdin in the 70s.

Ugh. Her voice used to make me cringe.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Spectre of the Gun

My mind automatically inserted a line from STXI into this scene:

MCCOY: You talk about another man's feelings. What do you feel, Spock?
SPOCK: My feelings are not a subject for discussion, Doctor.
MCCOY: Because there are no feelings to discuss.
SCOTT: Mister Spock, Chekov is dead! I say it now, and I can hardly believe it. But you worked closely with him. That deserves some memorial.
MCCOY: Spock will have no truck with grief, Scotty. It's human.
SPOCK: I intend to assist in the effort to reestablish communication with Starfleet. However, if crew morale is better served by my roaming the halls weeping, I will gladly defer to your medical expertise.

This episode was very Twilight Zone-ish in both the way it played out and the crew saving themselves by refusing to believe the bullets were real. A quirky episode in which Chekov acts rather like a 17 year old..

The Tholian Web

A wonderful edge-of-your-seat episode. I remembered it as being all about the Tholians but the real story is the tragic Defiant phasing in and out of our universe and Enterprise crew randomly going mad. Running through this classic science fiction story we have the antipathies and fears of Spock and McCoy both under great stress. So much packed into 45 minutes, a masterpiece.

For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky

A great title. A great scene where the old man makes this declaration right before he crumples and dies. The rest of it very choppy as though lines of dialog were edited out. McCoy's motivation to stay behind makes little sense. Evil computers enslaving people in ignorance.. kind of familiar. And the big piece missing..where was the asteroid ship headed? What was their promised land? How were they going to get out of the asteroid and how was it going to land?

Elaan of Troyius

I love the Dohlman. Here was a woman of great power and privilege denied the most basic of choices (a mate) and near exiled to world she despised. How she conspires to gain an upper hand, her rightful place in her mind, in these circumstances is interesting stuff. Tantrums, stabbings, seduction.. and in the end she has no choice but to do the will of her people. An unusual looking woman, quite different from the standard Trek beauties.

Some political conspiring as well. Kirk didn't know that Troyius was rich in Dilithium but you can bet the Federation did, and were determined that the planet would not be blown to bits by Elas.

Kirk annoyed the piss out of me with all his "You will do what I say" bossing around to tame the Dohlman and I found myself cheering for her victory over him with her tears. An action packed episode with plenty of twists and turns and humor.

 

[Chrisisall]

Elaan, Spectre, Enterprise Incident & Is There In Truth No Beauty are my top 4.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Plato's Stepchildren

This episode could have been saved from cheesiness if it had been Surak's Stepchildren or Kahless's Stepchildren or anything else. You could have had the same story line of aliens taking on a culture they admired and then going rogue and abandoning its tenets. So much interest could be added by making it an alien Trek culture and not a toga party. Did they even quote Plato once in the episode? No, it was all laurel leaves and torture. Michael Dunn who played Alexander was excellent. The Christine Chapel kissing Spock scene was wrenching. Otherwise, some lost opportunities.

Day of the Dove

This one I've seen so many times it's kind of a blur now.. even when rewatching it. I thought it quite inspiring as a teenager. I love the bit where Kang whacks Kirk on the back with gusto!

Whom Gods Destroy

WHY did Marta have to die? WHY WHY WHY?? She was such a funny animal like little creature, fetching and freakish all at once. Couldn't they have just blow up the Tellarite?

Great scenes with "who is really the Captain?" Nice touch that the chess move was for the 3D board.